Effect of John Byrne's comments on Byrne related CGC comics

[LVCE-migration]

Don't know how to respond to Mr. Byrne's recent comments in his own forum (please refer to http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2387&PN=1&totPosts=324 and go down to Mr. Byrne's personal reply to Jessica Alba as Sue Storm). Although every person in the United States has a right to his own opinion, his wording potentially makes him appear racist against blonde Hispanic females . I don't think that he wanted to make himself to be against the Hispanic community, his wording was unfortunately less than optimal in expressing his opinions. I am a huge Byrne fan, and initially became an X-Men fan due to his artwork and collaboration with Mr. Claremont. Nevertheless, I have a feeling that his remarks could potentially hurt the value of any CGC comics that have Byrne artwork and/or writing . It could also hurt his appearance at the Mid-Ohio Con this November in Columbus, Ohio. Since controversy has already been posted on the DC comics website message boards, comicon.com, and on Byrne's own website forum, I'm sure Time/Warner, the owners of DC Comics will get wind of this. If this company is anything like Viacom (owner of CBS, the ones who punished Jimmy the Greek for his comments on African Americans), they'll force Byrne to retract his statement, offer an apology, or a combination of the two. They may even force Byrne off of Doom Patrol or even cancel the book altogether. Just remember that although people have a right to their own opinions in this country, if the comments are not expressed in a tactful way, the big corporations will get rid of any potential controversy to avoid lawsuits and financial losses. Any opinions from fellow CGC collectors would be appreciated.

[osborn_fr]

I personally don't know what's racist in his comment ?

[chromium]

For John Byrne, any publicity is good publicity...

[blutobc]

Sorry, no resignation here from that thread. Byrne's comments there are actually quite benign for him. If his comment hit you too close to home I'm sorry that you took offense but try to move on and stay above the fray.

 

Another point from the tread "are there no more true blondes left in hollywood"? Maybe we can point the producers to the Babe Test for future casting. Then again I'm sure Alba is already in there somewhere.

[shrunkenhead]

Just read the Byrne forum, thanks for the link!

 

All Latino blondes look like hookers!?! Oh man, ouch, that is just so wrong. The guy who makes the reply about stupid lard-[!@#%^&^] men informing teenage boys about how to perceive women in our culture is dead-on. What do these guys know about women or latin-american ethnicity? Not a damn thing, from where I'm standing.

 

And while this might be a sad commentary on the state of comic fandom, I don' t think the comments will have much negative impact on the value of Byrne-related material. If similar comments were made in the world of literature or fine art, maybe, but not in the comicland. We are the world of chicks with double-ds in tight spandex, after all. So I'm not that optimistic.

[Joanna]

John doesn't find Latina women with blonde hair attractive. So what? Why on earth would you find that scandolous or predjudicial? He's talking about hair color, not some driving hatred toward a race (he never said he hated Hispanic women. Just that he didn't find blonde hair attractive on them). If he had said, "I don't like it when really pale white women dye their hair black. It makes them look like vampires" would you have been just as outraged? Would you be crying out about the value of CGC Byrne books because he was bigoted against whites and likened the entire race to the blood-sucking undead? Or in that example, is it clearer that he would be talking about a particular skin tone and how it matches to a particular hair color, and the image that it brings up in his mind?

 

-- Joanna

[blowout]

I believe these comments, as stupid as they may have been, will have absolutely no affect on the sale of CGC comics.

[Solar]

John doesn't find Latina women with blonde hair attractive. So what? Why on earth would you find that scandolous or predjudicial?

 

That's not exactly what he said. He said they "look like hookers," and that is an hole comment. A normal person would simply say what you said above, but Byrne is a hole.

[Red Hook]

Joanna, as a writer, you know that it's not just "what" you say, but "how" you say it.

 

Byrne made a stupid comment, and that's about the size of it. I for one wouldn't depend on him as a source of wisdom to begin with.

[Joanna]

I have to assume you guys are equally appalled at my comment about pale white women with dyed black hair, right?

[Ze-man]

I have to assume you guys are equally appalled at my comment about pale white women with dyed black hair, right?

 

 

I know pale white women with dyed black hair.. I work with a few..a few are my friends.. and also have a few that live in my neighborhood.

So Yes.. I think you should offer all of them a bouquet of

(just to make sure all kn0w.. this was made in jest)

I cant expect Joanna to hand out that many bouquet's

 

 

 

Joanna .. do you have hair?.... what color is it..

I will try and slander that hair color later on, to make you feel included in this Byrne hair bashing thread.

 

Is it redish brown?? .

Ze-

[Zonker]

I have to assume you guys are equally appalled at my comment about pale white women with dyed black hair, right?

 

I do find this interesting, much moreso than the rant-fest Byrne's message board thread turned in to.

 

What's most interesting to me is something Byrne alluded to over there as well: his critics there and (I presume) here are almost exclusively male. Yet Joanna doesn't seem particularly offended by a guy saying that someone looks like a hooker and invites a parallel to saying that someone looks like a vampire.

 

Is this a "guy thing," i.e. most of us tend to think one of the worst things you can call a woman is a hooker, while women see that as just another more-or-less value-neutral simile, e.g.

 

"like a hooker"

"like a vampire"

"like a clown"

 

Not trying to put all this on Joanna, mind you. I'll survey my better half for another opinion, but what do y'all think?

[OldGuy]

I don't see a problem with what he said other then it wasn't nice. He's just being an @sshole. People on these boards (me included) make a regular habit of being @ssholes. His comments wont affect sales or anything else.

[Fan4Fan]

If he said all latina women were hookers, then it would be racist. He was just making a poor comparison of a specific set of physical attributes.

 

... and he never said if he liked hookers or not.

 

So, it is typical Byrne in that his writing is not as clear as it should be.

 

Thanks,

Fan4Fan

[Red Hook]

I have to assume you guys are equally appalled at my comment about pale white women with dyed black hair, right?

 

Not at all, Joanna. Your comment doesn't hint at any kind of stereo-typing. I guess Byrne never saw a Latino woman with naturally blonde hair. Believe it or not, they exist. And I'm not saying he's racist. Again, it was just a dumb, uninformed comment. No major whoop.

[Red Hook]

I would be curious to know how he felt about Halle Berry's appearance in X-Men.......

 

 

I assume he must think she looked like a hooker too. Like I said....dumb!

[DawgPhan]

I would be curious to know how he felt about Halle Berry's appearance in X-Men.......

 

 

 

I assume he must think she looked like a hooker too. Like I said....dumb!

 

I could be wrong but I dont think that Halle Berry is Hispanic...though I may be wrong. I guess that she could be a mix of people, but I have always thought that she was black...wait was the racist? ah nevermind...besides the part where Bryne voiced an opinion on his own board that he pays for and all the overly sensitive people were offended, I love that Bryne was being flamed on his own board. Doesnt appear that anyone was booted and everyone was allowed to say what they wanted. Of course it also makes me laugh whenever someone trys to attack a "racist" by sterotyping them. I know that most people arent that smart and dont see that they are being stupid, but it always makes me laught... I know if I ever start up my own board I will be ruling with an iron fist.

[OldGuy]

Some people also don't seem to know the difference between "prejudice" and "racist".

[Joanna]

Okay, going to try to hit many posts in one reply:

 

Joanna .. do you have hair?.... what color is it..

I will try and slander that hair color later on, to make you feel included in this Byrne hair bashing thread.

 

I had very blonde hair growing up, but it darkened with age (Dad was a blond, Mom had dark brown hair). I guess you could call it light brown/dirty blonde now (more toward the brown, though). I have, in the past, put in blonde highlights, and then for a switch, I dyed it a medium auburn (a reddish brown, emphasis on the brown). Right now, I'm not dying it at all. One thing I did do was make sure these various colors matched my skin tones. Being of Norwegian descent, blonde looks very natural on me, but medium brown worked just as well. Had I gone any darker, I would've looked weird. Basically, with my skin color, I can go as blonde as I want and it'll look very natural, but I have to be careful not to go too dark.

 

So much more than you wanted, but I wrote it to make a point. What he was really talking about was that "unnatural" look of a woman who dies her hair a shade that doesn't work with her skin tones. Someone with dark skin dying her hair blonde would look as odd as me dying my hair black. I'd look ghoulish.

 

 

I do find this interesting, much moreso than the rant-fest Byrne's message board thread turned in to.

 

What's most interesting to me is something Byrne alluded to over there as well: his critics there and (I presume) here are almost exclusively male. Yet Joanna doesn't seem particularly offended by a guy saying that someone looks like a hooker and invites a parallel to saying that someone looks like a vampire.

 

Is this a "guy thing," i.e. most of us tend to think one of the worst things you can call a woman is a hooker, while women see that as just another more-or-less value-neutral simile, e.g.

 

"like a hooker"

"like a vampire"

"like a clown"

 

Not trying to put all this on Joanna, mind you. I'll survey my better half for another opinion, but what do y'all think?

 

Well, I wouldn't like to hear someone saying I looked like a hooker, just as I wouldn't want to hear someone say I looked like a vampire or a clown. However, there are things that look unnatural on some women, and hookers tend to thrive on "unnatural looks".

 

I didn't take offense because I have my own prejudices. I don't like long hair on men. Just a personal taste issue. To me, long hair on a man looks too feminine for my taste in a possible mate. It isn't based in reality, i.e. it's not like long-haired guys are all feminine, or all feminine guys have long hair. There's no correlation in the real world at all, in fact. It's just a gut thing. A taste thing. That's how I read John's comment. He wasn't saying that Latina women who dyed their hair blonde were hookers, or looked like hookers to the rest of the world, or had anything to do with hookers. He was just saying that his gut reaction to a woman who would otherwise be attractive to him was, in effect, 'please don't dye your hair because it gives me an erroneous mental image.' Just as my gut reaction to a long-haired man I would otherwise be attracted to is 'please cut your hair because it gives me an erroneous mental image.'

 

And as long as I have prejudices as to what sort of man attracts me, whether it's racial characteristics, hair color or length, eye color, height, weight, etc. then I don't feel it's my place to cast stones on someone else who is expressing his own personal prejudices. To me, the problem was that he mentioned a race -- a taboo in this PC society, even though he was really talking about dyed hair color not matching skin tones (and that was crystal clear). Had he happened to have mentioned overweight women instead of Latina women, not only would there have been no outcry, there would have been a guyfest of high fives and fat jokes. His mistake was mentioning a group that it's not okay to denigrate, even peripherally. Everyone's allowed to make fun of gays and fat people (though gays are fighting hard to get exempted status, like many races), though the hurt of being derided is just as powerful and devestating to people in those two groups as it is to any other group.

 

Not at all, Joanna. Your comment doesn't hint at any kind of stereo-typing. I guess Byrne never saw a Latino woman with naturally blonde hair. Believe it or not, they exist. And I'm not saying he's racist. Again, it was just a dumb, uninformed comment. No major whoop.

 

1. stereotyping: my post did indeed hint at stereotyping. It's just okay to stereotype whites, because they've been 'on top' so long in this society.

 

2. Naturally blonde hair: You didn't read the whole thread. His note referred only to dyed hair, specifically, dying hair a color that does not match your natural skin tones. He was very specific.

 

-- Joanna

[Joanna]

I would be curious to know how he felt about Halle Berry's appearance in X-Men...

I assume he must think she looked like a hooker too. Like I said....dumb!

 

This was indeed mentioned several times in the thread, with many of the members saying that they thought she looked terrible and "like a hooker" in X-Men. John did not post about it. Oddly enough, no one called the posters who made those hooker comments any names, nor did any outcry arise. Then again, they weren't John Byrne, so it was okay for them to speak their minds.

 

-- Joanna