Ethical Limitations at Garage Sales...

[mintcollector]

I'm sure subjects like this have been brought up before, but since I'm relatively new to the forums I thought I'd bring it up again

 

I'm curious about whether or not you have ethical limitations when buying comics at garage sales/flea markets?

 

Example: Say someone is selling something insanely valuable for 25cents...do you tell them? Or do you buy it and say nothing?

 

Where's your personal limit? Do you have certain books or monetary limits that you hold to? If someone has something of that predetermined value, do you tell them, rather than let them sell it to you for next-to-nothing? Or do you look at it as their fault if they didn't spend 2 seconds looking something up on the internet?

 

Looking for your input here.....to settle a small debate with the wife. We go garage saling almost every weekend in the summer, and I've had a better-than-normal summer for finding garage sale comic scores. She and I began talking about whether or not I should go back to a particular garage sale and give them more money for a couple books I bought......obviously, the debate got deep.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

I can tell you that there are several similarities and differences between ethics in the antiques business versus the collectibles market. I can also tell you that due to the recent glut of reality based collecting shows that focus on collecting; a lot of individuals are much savvier when it comes to selling their items. On the other side of the equation, pickers now outrank collectors at flea markets by a wide margin. Everyone with a television remote thinks they can make money in the collectibles realm. Sadly this is not how it works and you bring up an excellent point.

 

At a garage sale or flea market if a person puts something out at a low price and is happy with the price stated anyone can buy it. This is true. HOWEVER, the minute the person asks what it is worth (usually during a negotiation) and the buyer lies about the true value of the item; an ethical line has been crossed.

 

In the antiques realm most dealers who offer to buy objects will not do appraisals. In fact you can be held liable and forced to answer to your fellow peers and dealers should you violate this. This is why whenever I see someone knew with dollar signs in their eyes and little knowledge of the antiques business I often worry. I also advise customers and those I am able to educate to only do business with established dealers with a long track record or sell through vetted high end auction houses who will take the time to give your item the proper clientele and exposure it needs to sell at maximum price.

 

[jaybes]

I'm sure subjects like this have been brought up before, but since I'm relatively new to the forums I thought I'd bring it up again

 

I'm curious about whether or not you have ethical limitations when buying comics at garage sales/flea markets?

 

Example: Say someone is selling something insanely valuable for 25cents...do you tell them? Or do you buy it and say nothing?

 

Where's your personal limit? Do you have certain books or monetary limits that you hold to? If someone has something of that predetermined value, do you tell them, rather than let them sell it to you for next-to-nothing? Or do you look at it as their fault if they didn't spend 2 seconds looking something up on the internet?

 

Looking for your input here.....to settle a small debate with the wife. We go garage saling almost every weekend in the summer, and I've had a better-than-normal summer for finding garage sale comic scores. She and I began talking about whether or not I should go back to a particular garage sale and give them more money for a couple books I bought......obviously, the debate got deep.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

I can tell you that there are several similarities and differences between ethics in the antiques business versus the collectibles market. I can also tell you that due to the recent glut of reality based collecting shows that focus on collecting; a lot of individuals are much savvier when it comes to selling their items. On the other side of the equation, pickers now outrank collectors at flea markets by a wide margin. Everyone with a television remote thinks they can make money in the collectibles realm. Sadly this is not how it works and you bring up an excellent point.

 

At a garage sale or flea market if a person puts something out at a low price and is happy with the price stated anyone can buy it. This is true. HOWEVER, the minute the person asks what it is worth (usually during a negotiation) and the buyer lies about the true value of the item; an ethical line has been crossed.

In the antiques realm most dealers who offer to buy objects will not do appraisals. In fact you can be held liable and forced to answer to your fellow peers and dealers should you violate this. This is why whenever I see someone knew with dollar signs in their eyes and little knowledge of the antiques business I often worry. I also advise customers and those I am able to educate to only do business with established dealers with a long track record or sell through vetted high end auction houses who will take the time to give your item the proper clientele and exposure it needs to sell at maximum price.

 

Good points, thanks for weighing in. Despite what some may think, I think there's value in having this discussion from time to time. Like you mentioned, reality shows have changed the antiques/collectables market quite a bit lately, and I dont think any of us want pickers/dealers to develop the used-car-salesmen stereotype.

[Artboy99]

I'd just pay their asking price and take the books. They aren't asking for an appraisal, they're setting a price and you're agreeing to the price.

 

THIS

 

This concept can be extended to fellow comic collectors or local comic shops who may have something in a box/ on the internet priced at 5 dollars that is now selling for hundreds...say like an Avengers 55.

 

I am sure whoever bought the Avengers 55 from Harley Yee wont send him his "ethical cut" of the sale.

 

The price it was offered at was met. Done and finished deal.

 

NOW all that said, if the box of comics at the garage sale has a sign on it that says "Offers" do you knowingly lowball the guy? That is different and leans towards you should tell the seller what he has and be an honest person towards your fellow man.

[comicalgems]

My wife says if the profit is more than $100 then you should go back and give them extra money. I'm more of a "that's your price then that's your price" kind of approach. Only exception I would make is if it were someone I buy from often who generally cuts me a deal in asking prices for other items.

 

Example: let's say you get a $100 book for a dollar but left a $400 book behind because its priced at $650. Seller won't budge on ask price at all so you leave it behind. "that's your price then that's your price". Now if same scenario and seller lets $400 book go for $325 or anything at or below $400 then I feel obligated to kick them something extra on their $1 book.

[comicalgems]

Now I also have the habit of spending my profit margin on other items as well. If I pick something up cheap and figure there's a $20+ profit there I'll generally look for other items to buy at fmv.

[towards2112]

I have played seriously dumb - Which garage sale ?

I don't talk about money - bad karma

I don't ask if that $ 2 clutch she bought might be one of those $800 Italian jobs.

[The-Collector]

I'm sure subjects like this have been brought up before, but since I'm relatively new to the forums I thought I'd bring it up again

 

I'm curious about whether or not you have ethical limitations when buying comics at garage sales/flea markets?

 

Example: Say someone is selling something insanely valuable for 25cents...do you tell them? Or do you buy it and say nothing?

 

Where's your personal limit? Do you have certain books or monetary limits that you hold to? If someone has something of that predetermined value, do you tell them, rather than let them sell it to you for next-to-nothing? Or do you look at it as their fault if they didn't spend 2 seconds looking something up on the internet?

 

Looking for your input here.....to settle a small debate with the wife. We go garage saling almost every weekend in the summer, and I've had a better-than-normal summer for finding garage sale comic scores. She and I began talking about whether or not I should go back to a particular garage sale and give them more money for a couple books I bought......obviously, the debate got deep.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

I can tell you that there are several similarities and differences between ethics in the antiques business versus the collectibles market. I can also tell you that due to the recent glut of reality based collecting shows that focus on collecting; a lot of individuals are much savvier when it comes to selling their items. On the other side of the equation, pickers now outrank collectors at flea markets by a wide margin. Everyone with a television remote thinks they can make money in the collectibles realm. Sadly this is not how it works and you bring up an excellent point.

 

At a garage sale or flea market if a person puts something out at a low price and is happy with the price stated anyone can buy it. This is true. HOWEVER, the minute the person asks what it is worth (usually during a negotiation) and the buyer lies about the true value of the item; an ethical line has been crossed.

In the antiques realm most dealers who offer to buy objects will not do appraisals. In fact you can be held liable and forced to answer to your fellow peers and dealers should you violate this. This is why whenever I see someone knew with dollar signs in their eyes and little knowledge of the antiques business I often worry. I also advise customers and those I am able to educate to only do business with established dealers with a long track record or sell through vetted high end auction houses who will take the time to give your item the proper clientele and exposure it needs to sell at maximum price.

 

Good points, thanks for weighing in. Despite what some may think, I think there's value in having this discussion from time to time. Like you mentioned, reality shows have changed the antiques/collectables market quite a bit lately, and I dont think any of us want pickers/dealers to develop the used-car-salesmen stereotype.

 

Failure to disclose is still dishonest. The law recognises lying by omission. The ethical wrongness of the verbal lie is worse but not by much.

 

I can make the above argument but I don't agree with it. I just make it to demonstrate that there is some inconsistency in the position that only a verbal lie is unethical.

 

My personal opinion is that it is fine to grossly underpay. The collector/dealer who buys is rewarded for their knowledge and expertise. The seller is rewarded with renumeration that they think is fair.

[B-Smooth]

I'd just pay their asking price and take the books. They aren't asking for an appraisal, they're setting a price and you're agreeing to the price.

 

(thumbs u

 

This is a stupid discussion. It was a stupid discussion eleven years ago when I joined the boards, it was a stupid discussion five years ago, and it is a stupid discussion now.

Word.

[miraclemet]

Scenario #1

 

Seller lists a book at a price above the market.

 

Buyer comes along and buys the book.

 

Is this unethical?

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Scenario #2

 

Seller lists a book below the market price

 

Buyer buys the book

 

Is this unethical?

 

_____________________________________

 

Scenario 1: is the seller being unethical by asking more than the general market price? Plenty of ebay listings do this type of "whale hunting" and while I think it's dumb, and does a disservice to the market (cause it inflates expectations of people who have a similar book but dont understand the difference between an asking price and a selling price) I DONT think its unethical. And this is with a straight transaction, no push selling, no Dealer shining the possible buyer about the book. Just an asking price above market. I've seen it done here for "hot" books, and I dont think anyone would find it unethical to be a price leader for a hot book.

 

Scenario 2 happens all the time here right? People either list books at "deals" to sell them fast, or maybe just don't know the value of what they have. Its not an unethical transaction. Seller gets the amount they want, buyer pays the amount that's asked. I think anytime you start parsing out dollar amounts above and below the acceptable transaction profit the logic is faulty [i.e. Buying a $1 book that's worth $5 is fine, but buying a $1 book that's worth $10 is questionable, and paying $5 for a $100 book is unethical, or "profiting more than $100 on a buy means you should share the profit back with the seller", what if it was a $2000 purchase that you made $100 on?]

 

I think we all agree that scamming a grandma out of her husband's Edgar Church-like collection for $1/book is unethical, but why it's unethical is another matter.

[techtre2003]

For me, the whole point of going to a garage sale or flea market is to search out that huge find. That small chance you are going to find gold is the whole reason to go in the first place. If I wanted to pay fair market price I'd go to the comic shop or ebay and buy it; I wouldn't spend hours looking through to find it.

[krighton]

I don't have the resources of American Pickers or Pawn Stores and am able to offer people exactly 50% of what it's worth. Saying that, I pay the price that's listed.

[DougC]

I just do not see the ethical complications.

 

If at any point you decide to sell something you are opening up a business front (regardless if it is a garage sell, flea market, or Ebay). You place a price on the item that you will be happy with getting, this is your perceived value; the buyers perceived value maybe higher or lower completely dependent on their view point and connections (to flip the item).

 

As an example I routinely purchase SS 90's "drek" books for more than they will ever be worth. I know this, I generally offer more, and I am happy with the purchase (obviously as is the seller). When someone puts the same book on ebay for auction and it goes for a quarter of GPA and I buy it I do not feel bad because the "GPA book value" was higher. I am of the same mindset for anyone selling anything.

 

I just can not stand people who sell an item for a price they want and are happy with, then at an unlimited time frame later run crying about how someone fleeced them!

[krighton]

Interesting question but I buy it for what it was offered and then run. I don't see anything of value anymore at Garage Sales and Flea Markets. I was having this conversation with a boardie a little while ago. I feel that at this point that, at least here in NY and the Long Island area that most people are savvy enough to take their valuable stuff to eBay and everything else that is left over is found on Craigslist and at Garage Sales.

 

Yea I haven't seen anything valuable at a garage sale in years. People are smart enough to check things out. The internet and media has made everyone a genius.

 

and everything is priced NM/M, even with the cover half ripped off. And if you tell them otherwise, you're a liar.

[Transplant]

Has it been a year since we discussed this topic already?

 

I picked a Hulk 181 out of a $.25 flea market box once.

 

 

 

When I was about 12 years old. And had no idea what it was.

[krighton]

and the post about a seller asking a buyer the worth of the item the buyer is willing to buy.

 

that just doesn't make any sense. Am I supposed to arrive at garage sales with new stickers to put on items that have been underpriced?

[MedicAR]

I picked up an FF #10 in a comic shop for 10¢. The store was having a sale and back issues were 10 for $1. The shop didn't do much to protect their high end books and while going through the boxes, I found FF #10. It even had a $100 price tag on it. I pulled with with the intent of letting the clerk know, figuring someone had pu the book there with the intent of coming back during the sale (they advertised for about a month before the sale started).

 

I took the book, along with my other finds to the counter. FF #10 was on top and the clerk just started counting. I pointed out that I didn't think that book was supposed to be in the bins and showed her the price tag which was clearly $100. You couldn't even squint and make it look like something else. She asked if I wanted the book. I told her that I didn't have enough money and she just laughed and asked, "you don't have an extra dime?" Like a fool, I argued with her, I told her there was no way that book should have been in the with the 10/$1 stuff. She said, that may be the case, but it was in there so if I want it, it's the same as the others. I suggested that if the boss found out she might get fired and even a deal this good wasn't worth someone's job to me. She said the book was in with the others, so it is priced like the others. I told her it belonged on the wall or in the case and she told me that if I left it, she would put it back where it came from.

 

With that, I purchased a nice copy of FF #10 at 99.9% off of the asking price. She didn't get fired and I got a heck of a deal. I never lost a moment of sleep, as I tried to do the right thing and was told not to worry about it.

 

You're 100% honest and ethical. I would have pointed it out to the clerk but wouldn't have argued with her.

 

I try, but i doubt I make 100%

 

My thinking was that it was clearly a huge mistake on the part of an employee or it was an attempt to scam the store by another customer. It's a little different from the garage sale scenario in that it was correctly priced at one point, so someone knew its value.

[jaybes]

Scenario #1

 

Seller lists a book at a price above the market.

 

Buyer comes along and buys the book.

 

Is this unethical?

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Scenario #2

 

Seller lists a book below the market price

 

Buyer buys the book

 

Is this unethical?

 

_____________________________________

 

Scenario 1: is the seller being unethical by asking more than the general market price? Plenty of ebay listings do this type of "whale hunting" and while I think it's dumb, and does a disservice to the market (cause it inflates expectations of people who have a similar book but dont understand the difference between an asking price and a selling price) I DONT think its unethical. And this is with a straight transaction, no push selling, no Dealer shining the possible buyer about the book. Just an asking price above market. I've seen it done here for "hot" books, and I dont think anyone would find it unethical to be a price leader for a hot book.

 

Scenario 2 happens all the time here right? People either list books at "deals" to sell them fast, or maybe just don't know the value of what they have. Its not an unethical transaction. Seller gets the amount they want, buyer pays the amount that's asked. I think anytime you start parsing out dollar amounts above and below the acceptable transaction profit the logic is faulty [i.e. Buying a $1 book that's worth $5 is fine, but buying a $1 book that's worth $10 is questionable, and paying $5 for a $100 book is unethical, or "profiting more than $100 on a buy means you should share the profit back with the seller", what if it was a $2000 purchase that you made $100 on?]

 

I think we all agree that scamming a grandma out of her husband's Edgar Church-like collection for $1/book is unethical, but why it's unethical is another matter.

 

+1 Well put.

 

Thanks everyone for chiming in, and sorry to those of you who are eyerolling about discussing this topic again. Considering the very nature of open membership forums allows for recycling topics, I hope no one is too upset Thanks for the good responses.

 

 

[mintcollector]

I'm sure subjects like this have been brought up before, but since I'm relatively new to the forums I thought I'd bring it up again

 

I'm curious about whether or not you have ethical limitations when buying comics at garage sales/flea markets?

 

Example: Say someone is selling something insanely valuable for 25cents...do you tell them? Or do you buy it and say nothing?

 

Where's your personal limit? Do you have certain books or monetary limits that you hold to? If someone has something of that predetermined value, do you tell them, rather than let them sell it to you for next-to-nothing? Or do you look at it as their fault if they didn't spend 2 seconds looking something up on the internet?

 

Looking for your input here.....to settle a small debate with the wife. We go garage saling almost every weekend in the summer, and I've had a better-than-normal summer for finding garage sale comic scores. She and I began talking about whether or not I should go back to a particular garage sale and give them more money for a couple books I bought......obviously, the debate got deep.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

I can tell you that there are several similarities and differences between ethics in the antiques business versus the collectibles market. I can also tell you that due to the recent glut of reality based collecting shows that focus on collecting; a lot of individuals are much savvier when it comes to selling their items. On the other side of the equation, pickers now outrank collectors at flea markets by a wide margin. Everyone with a television remote thinks they can make money in the collectibles realm. Sadly this is not how it works and you bring up an excellent point.

 

At a garage sale or flea market if a person puts something out at a low price and is happy with the price stated anyone can buy it. This is true. HOWEVER, the minute the person asks what it is worth (usually during a negotiation) and the buyer lies about the true value of the item; an ethical line has been crossed.

In the antiques realm most dealers who offer to buy objects will not do appraisals. In fact you can be held liable and forced to answer to your fellow peers and dealers should you violate this. This is why whenever I see someone knew with dollar signs in their eyes and little knowledge of the antiques business I often worry. I also advise customers and those I am able to educate to only do business with established dealers with a long track record or sell through vetted high end auction houses who will take the time to give your item the proper clientele and exposure it needs to sell at maximum price.

 

Good points, thanks for weighing in. Despite what some may think, I think there's value in having this discussion from time to time. Like you mentioned, reality shows have changed the antiques/collectables market quite a bit lately, and I dont think any of us want pickers/dealers to develop the used-car-salesmen stereotype.

 

Failure to disclose is still dishonest. The law recognises lying by omission. The ethical wrongness of the verbal lie is worse but not by much.

 

I can make the above argument but I don't agree with it. I just make it to demonstrate that there is some inconsistency in the position that only a verbal lie is unethical.

 

My personal opinion is that it is fine to grossly underpay. The collector/dealer who buys is rewarded for their knowledge and expertise. The seller is rewarded with renumeration that they think is fair.

 

Failure to disclose is always dishonest. That is the point I am trying to make. If during a negotiation a seller in question asks what the item is worth it is your job as a buyer to answer honestly. This is why on American Pickers you often hear Mike say, 'I cannot buy it and sell it.' This statement is used to parlay the responsibility of value back on the seller and ensure that the negotiations do not take an unexpected turn. The reason Pawn Stars brings in experts to value an item before offering an appraisal on most historical items is to establish a value disclosed o the seller long before an agreement is made. If the seller is willing to take less than 50% of the retail value of an item, then so be it. Just as long as it is done before an agreement is finalized.

 

 

[ashrael]

Don't go back. As the seller, my thought would be: "If he freely gave me more money after the fact, that means I sold him something VERY valuable and I really lost out on money." Let sleeping dogs lie.

 

Now as to whether you should say something beforehand, there is the ethical question....

[jools&jim]

 

About 15 years ago, I found a very old edition of Rudyard Kipling's "Barrack-Room Ballads, and Other Verses" in the basement stacks of a university library. When I opened it up, I saw that it had been inscribed to the original owner and signed by Kipling.

 

I (briefly) considered checking it out, not returning it, and then paying the nominal "lost book" fee, but in the end my conscience dictated the proper course of action, and I immediately turned it over the nearest librarian. The signature was eventually deemed authentic, and the book was put into the library's "Rare Books and Manuscripts" collection, where it remains today.

 

Not sure what I would have done if, say, the book had been priced at $1 and tossed onto a table with other poetry books in a library book sale (such things do happen from time to time); but I'm reasonably certain that a less scrupulous bibliophile would have checked out the book as shelved and never returned it if he/she had found it before I did.

 

Not everyone is inclined to do the right thing. So owners--whether institutional, like a library, or personal, like someone running a yard sale--really do need to be more cautious with their wares...