Trading Post/PIF/Giving Tree Discussion Thread

[comicdonna]

The reason I never participated in this thread, was the pressure of coming up with a nice enough offer. I would rather post something in the RAK thread, and move on, without worry.

[Red84]

PIF should be left as is. It is not technically a trading thread because A gives to B, B gives to C, C gives to D, etc.

 

Don't move it to the marketplace; don't change the rules; just leave it alone. It's not so complicated that it requires all this debate.

[bababooey]

I dont compliment bad offers, thats the point. Saying I would was sarcasm. But there seems to be a certain few that without fail, say "great offer" to one that is anything but. All that does is encourage the donkeys. .

 

Great point!

[kav]

I think PIF belongs in CG. Why? Because I've learned a lot about comics by following the PIF thread. Stuff about valuation, history, a lot of stuff.

[1Cool]

Can I just inquire as to why there is still a desire to have these kinds of threads going? It definitely seems like the point of a PIF thread died many moons ago. It's all about greed. The second you start judging offers as better, worse or on par with the last, you're not "paying" anything "forward".

 

 

I think it's safe to say the vast majority of people who even looked at the PIF thread understood that it has evolved into a unique type of trading thread where a person is opened to the possibility of getting an item they want not by trading with the individual that owns said item, but by trading an offer forward to the entire forum community.

 

It's a fun and entertaining way to trade things, but because of how the system is structured there is potential for abuse, not because it's of any inherent altruistic nature regarding "paying it forward" but because people would try to TAKE more then they OFFER in return.

 

You see, if you have a trade between 2 people and one person gets the short end of it, it's up to them to take the short end or cancel the trade. It's their decision.

 

But in this system the person trying to take advantage isn't really taking advantage of one person, they're taking advantage of the community at large, and that's why people get bent out of shape and judge offers.

 

It's just a matter of everyone looking out for each other, and I think it's a good thing.

 

People just need to get over the idea that "we're just giving stuff away for free". That's not what it is and it hasn't been that for a very long time. Everyone is getting to hung up on the title. Maybe a title change and clarification in the explanation of the thread is all that's needed.

 

 

 

 

+1

 

Although I do not even see the need to change anything. I don't think many people come in confused or misinformed if they read a little and I don't think EVERYONE is hung up on the title, just angry folk.

 

I think some confusion comes up when people talk about the thread in general and assume that each person participating has the same rational for playing. People claim things they want obviously. But to assume everyone is out to game the system is wrong. Yes everyone is out to change items in their collections, to trade the space on the shelf from one item to another, but the community aspect is why we do it here in PIF and why many of us try to give as good as we get more often than not. I would never have made a strict trade for my last PIF, nor many of those that came before. I certainly didn't give away a Moebius sketch in PIF as an even trade but did it to make someone here happy and encourage them to bring it hard with their offerings. I had two...and then someone's husband came and bought the second one immediately! He paid market rate for the same type sketch as I gave in PIF and that was much higher than any PIF I have ever been part of.

 

No one thinks everyone is out to game the system. We just call out specific people and post the evidence to back it up. I guess I could be one of those people that say great offer even when its a piece of .

 

Although you may not think so others are expressing that thought. That is my point, that people are generalizing their own feelings about the thread to others. "If it is just a trading thread then..." implies no community aspect.

 

And you compliment bad offers? Why? How does that help? I just sit by quietly as one man's trash is another man's treasure. I do think that we should feel fine bashing offers we know are bad but refrain from bashing people, especially noobs.

 

I dont compliment bad offers, thats the point. Saying I would was sarcasm. But there seems to be a certain few that without fail, say "great offer" to one that is anything but. All that does is encourage the donkeys. I must say, I admire the Donkey Defenders. Either they are just extremely nice people or completely clueless. Must be nice.

 

[krighton]

here's how PIF works at Chick Fil A....Guy A pays for the guy behind him B...guy B may order $20 worth of food so guy A pays that...guy C only orders $5 so guy B pays $5 but guy C pays for guy D who ordered $40 worth and guy D pays nothing because guy E only ordered a water. So guy D makes out like a bandit and guy C and E get the shaft.

[1Cool]

Can I just inquire as to why there is still a desire to have these kinds of threads going? It definitely seems like the point of a PIF thread died many moons ago. It's all about greed. The second you start judging offers as better, worse or on par with the last, you're not "paying" anything "forward".

 

 

I think it's safe to say the vast majority of people who even looked at the PIF thread understood that it has evolved into a unique type of trading thread where a person is opened to the possibility of getting an item they want not by trading with the individual that owns said item, but by trading an offer forward to the entire forum community.

 

It's a fun and entertaining way to trade things, but because of how the system is structured there is potential for abuse, not because it's of any inherent altruistic nature regarding "paying it forward" but because people would try to TAKE more then they OFFER in return.

 

You see, if you have a trade between 2 people and one person gets the short end of it, it's up to them to take the short end or cancel the trade. It's their decision.

 

But in this system the person trying to take advantage isn't really taking advantage of one person, they're taking advantage of the community at large, and that's why people get bent out of shape and judge offers.

 

It's just a matter of everyone looking out for each other, and I think it's a good thing.

 

People just need to get over the idea that "we're just giving stuff away for free". That's not what it is and it hasn't been that for a very long time. Everyone is getting to hung up on the title. Maybe a title change and clarification in the explanation of the thread is all that's needed.

 

 

 

 

+1

 

Although I do not even see the need to change anything. I don't think many people come in confused or misinformed if they read a little and I don't think EVERYONE is hung up on the title, just angry folk.

 

I think some confusion comes up when people talk about the thread in general and assume that each person participating has the same rational for playing. People claim things they want obviously. But to assume everyone is out to game the system is wrong. Yes everyone is out to change items in their collections, to trade the space on the shelf from one item to another, but the community aspect is why we do it here in PIF and why many of us try to give as good as we get more often than not. I would never have made a strict trade for my last PIF, nor many of those that came before. I certainly didn't give away a Moebius sketch in PIF as an even trade but did it to make someone here happy and encourage them to bring it hard with their offerings. I had two...and then someone's husband came and bought the second one immediately! He paid market rate for the same type sketch as I gave in PIF and that was much higher than any PIF I have ever been part of.

 

No one thinks everyone is out to game the system. We just call out specific people and post the evidence to back it up. I guess I could be one of those people that say great offer even when its a piece of .

 

Although you may not think so others are expressing that thought. That is my point, that people are generalizing their own feelings about the thread to others. "If it is just a trading thread then..." implies no community aspect.

 

And you compliment bad offers? Why? How does that help? I just sit by quietly as one man's trash is another man's treasure. I do think that we should feel fine bashing offers we know are bad but refrain from bashing people, especially noobs.

 

I dont compliment bad offers, thats the point. Saying I would was sarcasm. But there seems to be a certain few that without fail, say "great offer" to one that is anything but. All that does is encourage the donkeys. I must say, I admire the Donkey Defenders. Either they are just extremely nice people or completely clueless. Must be nice.

 

But what if the person really does not have anything of value. Shouldn't their "great offer" hold the same weight as the guy who has a whole comic shop at his disposal.

[Awax]

Can I just inquire as to why there is still a desire to have these kinds of threads going? It definitely seems like the point of a PIF thread died many moons ago. It's all about greed. The second you start judging offers as better, worse or on par with the last, you're not "paying" anything "forward".

 

 

I think it's safe to say the vast majority of people who even looked at the PIF thread understood that it has evolved into a unique type of trading thread where a person is opened to the possibility of getting an item they want not by trading with the individual that owns said item, but by trading an offer forward to the entire forum community.

 

It's a fun and entertaining way to trade things, but because of how the system is structured there is potential for abuse, not because it's of any inherent altruistic nature regarding "paying it forward" but because people would try to TAKE more then they OFFER in return.

 

You see, if you have a trade between 2 people and one person gets the short end of it, it's up to them to take the short end or cancel the trade. It's their decision.

 

But in this system the person trying to take advantage isn't really taking advantage of one person, they're taking advantage of the community at large, and that's why people get bent out of shape and judge offers.

 

It's just a matter of everyone looking out for each other, and I think it's a good thing.

 

People just need to get over the idea that "we're just giving stuff away for free". That's not what it is and it hasn't been that for a very long time. Everyone is getting to hung up on the title. Maybe a title change and clarification in the explanation of the thread is all that's needed.

 

 

 

 

+1

 

Although I do not even see the need to change anything. I don't think many people come in confused or misinformed if they read a little and I don't think EVERYONE is hung up on the title, just angry folk.

 

I think some confusion comes up when people talk about the thread in general and assume that each person participating has the same rational for playing. People claim things they want obviously. But to assume everyone is out to game the system is wrong. Yes everyone is out to change items in their collections, to trade the space on the shelf from one item to another, but the community aspect is why we do it here in PIF and why many of us try to give as good as we get more often than not. I would never have made a strict trade for my last PIF, nor many of those that came before. I certainly didn't give away a Moebius sketch in PIF as an even trade but did it to make someone here happy and encourage them to bring it hard with their offerings. I had two...and then someone's husband came and bought the second one immediately! He paid market rate for the same type sketch as I gave in PIF and that was much higher than any PIF I have ever been part of.

 

No one thinks everyone is out to game the system. We just call out specific people and post the evidence to back it up. I guess I could be one of those people that say great offer even when its a piece of .

 

Although you may not think so others are expressing that thought. That is my point, that people are generalizing their own feelings about the thread to others. "If it is just a trading thread then..." implies no community aspect.

 

And you compliment bad offers? Why? How does that help? I just sit by quietly as one man's trash is another man's treasure. I do think that we should feel fine bashing offers we know are bad but refrain from bashing people, especially noobs.

 

I dont compliment bad offers, thats the point. Saying I would was sarcasm. But there seems to be a certain few that without fail, say "great offer" to one that is anything but. All that does is encourage the donkeys. I must say, I admire the Donkey Defenders. Either they are just extremely nice people or completely clueless. Must be nice.

 

But what if the person really does not have anything of value. Shouldn't their "great offer" hold the same weight as the guy who has a whole comic shop at his disposal.

 

 

No, those donkeys should go back to blow out cards where they came from.

[Shadow Images]

Trades don't work because of greed. PIF don't work because of greed.

[toro]

The reason I never participated in this thread, was the pressure of coming up with a nice enough offer. I would rather post something in the RAK thread, and move on, without worry.

 

You sir would have almost any offer you put up taken in no time at all. The person after you would have all of the pressure.

[Firespitter]

All trades should be blind-box/mystery box. And one discloses what they got. The giver is responsible for shipping even if it's on the moon.

 

"Up for PIF; A box of stuff. Take it if you dare. No returns. All PIFs are final."

Then the next person has to do the exact same, never knowing when they will get a box of crumpled-up newspapers that someone has urinated on.

 

If it's a mystery box that never gets disclosed then there can be no discussions of value or butt-hurt over someone taking something too nice and offering up drek.

C'mon! I've got hundreds of drek comics to move! This will work!

 

Sincerely,

-Terry J. Donkey

 

 

[HarveySwick]

[MR SigS]

The reason I never participated in this thread, was the pressure of coming up with a nice enough offer.

 

That's one of the reason's I stopped, but jaeldubyoo's SPJO offer was enough to tempt me to try. I do like the rule used now

that says what I claim is not shipped until my offer is claimed. Sure, some of the pressure is still there in terms of stalling the

thread, but at least I know what I claimed doesn't have my name and address on it yet, so if it doesn't happen- it doesn't happen.

I'm not stuck being the guy claiming (and receiving) a nice offer and not being able to come up with something people want. I

will have just stalled things for 96 hours (I agree 72 or 48 would be better).

 

I'm sure someone will jump on jaeldubyoo's offer if it reverts, and hopefully they'll have a better sense of what folks want or

need in their collection, or what folks want from PIF.

[ebtorres]

All trades should be blind-box/mystery box. And one discloses what they got. The giver is responsible for shipping even if it's on the moon.

 

"Up for PIF; A box of stuff. Take it if you dare. No returns. All PIFs are final."

Then the next person has to do the exact same, never knowing when they will get a box of crumpled-up newspapers that someone has urinated on.

 

If it's a mystery box that never gets disclosed then there can be no discussions of value or butt-hurt over someone taking something too nice and offering up drek.

C'mon! I've got hundreds of drek comics to move! This will work!

 

Sincerely,

-Terry J. Donkey

 

 

[topcat54]

here's how PIF works at Chick Fil A....Guy A pays for the guy behind him B...guy B may order $20 worth of food so guy A pays that...guy C only orders $5 so guy B pays $5 but guy C pays for guy D who ordered $40 worth and guy D pays nothing because guy E only ordered a water. So guy D makes out like a bandit and guy C and E get the shaft.

 

That's called paying it forward no matter the cost.

Ever seen the movie PAY IT FORWARD? If not you may want to watch it.

[fastballspecial]

Well, if that is what the thread has become, does it really belong in comics general anymore?

 

I think it has run its course and may be better off in another section or locked all together. There are plenty of people that really do try to give more than they take (paying it forward) but anytime there is free stuff, the less stellar members of society will show up and try to take advantage.

 

Arch, I read the comment in the trading thread. The point about it being trading and not giving makes sense, but it was just strange that no one had a problem with it last time. Thanks for answering the question though, because just deleting it with no explanation would leave a bad taste so to speak.

 

I agree its been nothing a pain since it started. I am quite sure the last year or two its probably gotten worse.

 

Close it and make some sort of trading thread. This thread has run its course.

[Meeklo]

Well, if that is what the thread has become, does it really belong in comics general anymore?

 

I think it has run its course and may be better off in another section or locked all together. There are plenty of people that really do try to give more than they take (paying it forward) but anytime there is free stuff, the less stellar members of society will show up and try to take advantage.

 

Arch, I read the comment in the trading thread. The point about it being trading and not giving makes sense, but it was just strange that no one had a problem with it last time. Thanks for answering the question though, because just deleting it with no explanation would leave a bad taste so to speak.

 

I agree its been nothing a pain since it started. I am quite sure the last year or two its probably gotten worse.

 

Close it and make some sort of trading thread. This thread has run its course.

 

From what it looks like now is that no one can offer any kind of suggestion. Anything that could potentially disrupt the status quo is immediately shut down, eyes are rolled, memes are posted, and no *spoons* are given regardless if that suggestion actually made sense or had merit.

 

1Cool just posted a very real scenario of one person trying to play with a small box or collection while another has a whole store at his disposal. The immediate response was for the small collection guy to go pound sand. This is a very real scenario.

 

Sorry, comic collecting is not just for the rich and stuck up...and until everyone is open to listening to everyone and stop calling people names, then close the PIF. There are more people who do not complain and make it fun then there are people who constantly nag about other people and offers. Unless someone comes up with a way to stop that, then you will never end the problems with the PIF. Close it until people learn how to be mature logical adults about it.

 

I'll even promise to never participate in it again if that is what people are worried about.

[techvoodoo]

[Shadow Images]

Shut it down. If you guys want a hand out, go ask the Gov't. I will choose who and if I ever give away another thing on this board.

 

 

Sad and pathetic all at the same time.

 

 

 

 

[1Cool]

My angel icon at the end indicates I was making fun of your continued use of the example I used. People with limited books should not take the premier offers unless they want to be seen as a Donkey. I would expect everyone on these boards has books equal to a ASM 300 - they just do not want to give them up to get a copy. It's way more profitable to offer $30 worth of odds and ends to justify a take of a ASM 300 or ASM 50.