Superman: The Man of Steel #17 & 18 (Doomsday) 3 3

[divad]

Misguided children . . . move along, nothing to see here.

[whetteon]

Misguided children . . . move along, nothing to see here.

 

AWwwwww..!

 

[valiantman]

Here are my thoughts on this:

 

Bone #1 will eventually become a declining key. With no new stories, movies, TV shows, etc. to keep people interested in the character(s), that comic will fade. I understand the books are still sold by Scholastic. Bone reminds me very much of Pogo. And if you don't know who Pogo is, that is exactly my point.

 

MOS #18 is the introduction of a character that DC will bring back again and again and again. He will appear in future comics, movies, TV shows, etc. That is, unless they irreparably damage the character, which both Marvel and DC have done to successful characters before. (Lobo, Foolkiller, maybe even Ghost Rider recently, etc.)

 

So, if you believe Bone will fade and Doomsday is a fixture, and I suspect many comic collectors do, why would you value a Bone #1 reprint highly. On the other hand, the first appearance of Doomsday (assuming his arm isn't considered his first appearance in MOS #17) could be a coveted book for years. If you think about it, Superman only has a few good villains, Lex Luthor, Metallo, Parasite, Brainiac, Zod, Mongul, and possibly Bizarro. I see Doomsday sticking around as a Superman villain. DC doesn't get many new, good characters from creators, so they will milk those they do get for as long as they can.

Gotcha.

 

I'm a big fan of Doomsday and a big fan of Man of Steel #18 (moreso than #17, because an arm isn't Doomsday).

 

I believe MOS #18 should be more valuable than MOS #17, because Doomsday is in #18, he's on the cover, and he's the star. #17 has an arm on the last page. Bleh.

But, to be fair, #17 should be worth a lot more than #16, which has no Doomsday arm.

 

MOS #17 has a slightly lower print run than #18... but slightly less copies with significantly less Doomsday seems like the edge should go to #18... in the long run.

 

The TOTAL value of all copies of MOS #18 reprints will never approach the TOTAL value of all copies of MOS #18 first prints.

I think that's easy to see... and it makes complete sense with everything the industry has shown us for decades.

 

Right now, the MOS #18 CGC 9.8s alone are cumulatively worth a TOTAL of $112,200, if we value each one at $100 and count the signature series as $100 also.

 

The MOS #18 reprints, of all types, for all grades, have 126 copies on the CGC census.

Even if every one of them was worth $250 each, regardless of grade or printing number, that TOTAL value would only be $31,500.

 

There is a market for CGC graded MOS #18 reprints, but the size of that market is easily below $25,000.

The size of the market for MOS #18 first printings CGC 9.8 alone, is $100,000+.

 

The value of a single MOS #18 reprint might currently be higher than the first printing... and perhaps it always will be... but the real MOS #18 market isn't the reprints. It's the real thing.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Part of the reason that the DOS/FFAF later printings have market demand is because of the way they were made and distributed.

 

There were, of course, the initial reprintings based on immediate demand...the Superman #75s, for example...but several of the later printings, including the rarer ones, were made specifically for inclusion in the 2-packs, 3-packs, 20-packs, and storyline boxes.

 

 

2- and 3-packs were nothing new at the time, but storyline boxes were a uniquely early 90's invention, and DOS/FFAF proved to be quite good sellers in that format. Also new, the "20-packs (later 10)" consisting of a single month's output that were sold at Costco and the like.

 

With the advent of storyline boxes, along with the traditional 2- and 3-packs, DC now had a way to get back into the traditional "newsstand" market, like Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Target, and others, that had declined significantly in the preceding years. And, it clearly worked, because DC and Marvel continued the program through most of the mid-90's, before the crash's effects were felt completely, and sales could no longer justify these programs.

 

As a result of the storyline packs, DC had to have on hand a complete set to box (this was likely done by the same sub-contractor that assembled the 2- and 3-packs.) So, if they were out of, say, MOS #18 or Adventures #497....they sent an order back to the printer to print up another batch, adding the Roman numeral and different logo color, though that seems to have just been a quirk of someone making that decision at the time (the different logo color.)

 

There were also "unofficial" packs, which also contained later printings (mainly Adventures of Superman #498 3rd printing.)

 

(This, by the way, does much to dispel the myth that DC, Marvel, and other publishers don't warehouse books...they do, and this is an example of that.)

 

So, the only way to get these later printings, for the most part, was through these collector packs. Since the people who bought the "collector" packs were almost universally NOT collectors (they were simply interested in reading the story) and the packs/boxes were sold in mostly NON-collector venues, and since there was a near-universal disdain for later printings that persisted for at least another decade after the fact, a perfect storm of scarcity, attrition, and interest has resulted in the demand we see now, especially in high grade.

 

These items were not packed in any way that would prohibit damage. Though the boxes provided a measure of protection, it wasn't much, and any sort of impact to the box impacted the books as well. And, they weren't packed too tightly, and any movement resulted in rub to most or all of the books. The shrink-wrapped packs were no different, and had even less protection. Frankly, it's amazing any of these survived in high grade.

 

There is probably not a single store, in the 23 years this story has been in existence, that has ever owned multiples of any of the later printings, except by accident. They certainly couldn't order, say, the third printing of Adventures #499, for example, and why would they? No one wanted them. So, of course, they wouldn't have ever been in store stock, again, except by accident, and there certainly wouldn't have been any desire to preserve them in any meaningful way. So, the main source we have for high grade comics of the last 40 years...unsold store stock...was never a factor with these.

 

So, the only source for these later printings was in packs and boxes that people mostly bought to mostly read (and thus, damage), there was little done to preserve them, and quite possibly not a single person cared, if they even noticed...a situation that remained true for almost two decades.

 

It is therefore quite an accident of history that any of these survived at all, and a testament to the mentality of the collector that we have unopened boxes of these still lying around to this day (though they are rapidly disappearing as well.) For the last 25 years, the theory has been to save EVERYTHING, on the chance that something might click, someday, which is why anything even tangentially related to comics has been preserved.

 

Had these been books sold in the 1930's through 1950's, it's likely we would be talking about fragments of rumors. How many comics have come, gone, and disappeared into the ether, with not even a rumor of their existence?

 

To my knowledge, the DOS/FFAF boxes could contain any printings except the final printings of FFAF, which I *believe* (but would be happy to be corrected) were only available through the 2- and 3-packs. They are, of course, the rarest of the bunch (MOS #20 2nd, Action #686 2nd, Adventures #499 3rd [there is no second printing known of this book!] and Superman #77 3rd.)

 

This is unlike the situation with Bone, which was only reprinted to order, and was continually solicited throughout the 90's for "the latest printing" in Previews. As well, Bone #1 had a (reported) print run of only 3,000 copies, was an "Independent", and though it certainly achieved after-market notoriety, the near-constant availability of later printings, a base composed mostly of readers, rather than collectors, has created quite a divergent path between the two scenarios. You could always find "the latest printing" of Bone at a local store, and if you couldn't, you could simply ask for it to be ordered, and it showed up.

 

Now...high grade examples of Bone later printings are quite scarce...but there's really not too much demand on a collector basis for those books, and may not be.

[thecopperagekids]

Here are my thoughts on this:

 

Bone #1 will eventually become a declining key. With no new stories, movies, TV shows, etc. to keep people interested in the character(s), that comic will fade. I understand the books are still sold by Scholastic. Bone reminds me very much of Pogo. And if you don't know who Pogo is, that is exactly my point.

 

MOS #18 is the introduction of a character that DC will bring back again and again and again. He will appear in future comics, movies, TV shows, etc. That is, unless they irreparably damage the character, which both Marvel and DC have done to successful characters before. (Lobo, Foolkiller, maybe even Ghost Rider recently, etc.)

 

So, if you believe Bone will fade and Doomsday is a fixture, and I suspect many comic collectors do, why would you value a Bone #1 reprint highly. On the other hand, the first appearance of Doomsday (assuming his arm isn't considered his first appearance in MOS #17) could be a coveted book for years. If you think about it, Superman only has a few good villains, Lex Luthor, Metallo, Parasite, Brainiac, Zod, Mongul, and possibly Bizarro. I see Doomsday sticking around as a Superman villain. DC doesn't get many new, good characters from creators, so they will milk those they do get for as long as they can.

Gotcha.

 

I'm a big fan of Doomsday and a big fan of Man of Steel #18 (moreso than #17, because an arm isn't Doomsday).

 

I believe MOS #18 should be more valuable than MOS #17, because Doomsday is in #18, he's on the cover, and he's the star. #17 has an arm on the last page. Bleh.

But, to be fair, #17 should be worth a lot more than #16, which has no Doomsday arm.

 

MOS #17 has a slightly lower print run than #18... but slightly less copies with significantly less Doomsday seems like the edge should go to #18... in the long run.

 

The TOTAL value of all copies of MOS #18 reprints will never approach the TOTAL value of all copies of MOS #18 first prints.

I think that's easy to see... and it makes complete sense with everything the industry has shown us for decades.

 

Right now, the MOS #18 CGC 9.8s alone are cumulatively worth a TOTAL of $112,200, if we value each one at $100 and count the signature series as $100 also.

 

The MOS #18 reprints, of all types, for all grades, have 126 copies on the CGC census.

Even if every one of them was worth $250 each, regardless of grade or printing number, that TOTAL value would only be $31,500.

 

There is a market for CGC graded MOS #18 reprints, but the size of that market is easily below $25,000.

The size of the market for MOS #18 first printings CGC 9.8 alone, is $100,000+.

 

The value of a single MOS #18 reprint might currently be higher than the first printing... and perhaps it always will be... but the real MOS #18 market isn't the reprints. It's the real thing.

 

Alright, so I mispelled a word and apparently even mistook have the date of MOS 18 5th print.

The date of MOS 18's 5th printing is not the sole basis of my arguement, others like Rjrjrj have articulated the reasoning behind MOS 18 5th print as being the "winner" based on its' rarity itself.

 

Which is what I have also been saying.

 

 

Well, dates of MOS 18 printings aside, your calculation of the total value of CGC MOS 18 1st prints....the sheer dollar amount of $112,500 is much greater than the dollar amount of CGC 9.8 MOS 18 reprints at $31,500.Yes, that is certainly true.

 

The logical fallacy however in your arguement , actually sticks out like a sore thumb.

 

The mentality driving most collectors,besides completing runs and owning keys etc etc... ...is hunting down and owning the more uncommon pieces.

 

Sure, the collective dollar value of CGC 9.8 1st print MOS 18'S is pretty high but that is largely because there is such a large supply of CGC 9.8 1st printings of MOS 18 out there....and the number of CGC 9.8 1st prints of MOS 18 is steadily increasing.

 

Compare the submission numbers between MOS 18 1st prints and 5th prints for the last 10 years and then, iver the next 5 months, compare them again.

 

I can promise you that there will only be more and more copies of MOS 18 CGC 9.8's entering the marketplace, while the numbers on CGC 9.8 MOS 18 5th prints will be/remain dwarfed in comparison.

 

The 2nd,3rd prunts are already seeing an uptic in GPA, past the going rate of a CGC 9.8 1st print.

 

On the 14th, a CGC 9.8 MOS 18 1st print sold for over $250,attributable to the movie announcement.Since that outlier, it shrunk back to less than half of that $250 figure.

 

 

 

 

 

[valiantman]

Compare the submission numbers between MOS 18 1st prints and 5th prints for the last 10 years and then, iver the next 5 months, compare them again.

You're making my point for me. The market for MOS #18 is in the 1st prints. Not only is it multiples of the total market for the reprints, it will INCREASE its lead over the reprints as the census grows, according to your own statement here.

 

You're celebrating the tallest trees, like we should all be super impressed by the outliers in the market.

The full market is all the trees in the forest... miles and miles of them.

 

The only thing that reprints have going for them is lower print.

They're not originals. They're not first appearances.

There are fewer of them.

 

Big whoop-de-doo. If they do a 6th print with 100 copies, I suppose we should sell our houses to get in on those bad boys.

 

The value of the reprints is actually pretty sad.

There are 50 copies of first prints for every 1 copy of a fifth print on the CGC census.

 

50:1

 

Does the fifth print sell for 50 times the first print? Nope.

25 times? Nope.

10 times? Nope.

5 times? Nope.

It's two times.

 

If the reprints had anything else going for them... besides lower print... they'd be able to do better than 2:1 when the number is 50:1.

 

Perhaps they're undervalued.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Those market tendencies are closely tied when the books being examined are both keys of the same age.

 

Either Bone #1 reprints will tend to increase (because of this new interest in formerly worthless reprints from the early 1990s) or MOS #18 reprints will tend to decrease (because the market doesn't continuously prop up the value of reprints).

 

The market won't allow them both to be Copper Age keys, reprinted multiple times, with completely different markets.

 

I disagree, for the reasons stated above. We shall see, but I don't see them as mutually exclusive, because of their radically different circumstances.

 

 

Arguing that these are completely separate markets which are essentially opposites of each other, even though they're both the same age books in the same era with 5+ reprintings (at a time when no other books reprinted that many times) doesn't make any sense to me.

 

This is not quite accurate. The only books of the Superman run which had more than 3 printings were Superman #75 (4) and MOS #18 (5.) Bone, on the other hand, had 5+ printings for every issue up to #7-ish, and possibly to #10.

 

As well, there were such multiple reprintings, even up to 6 printings, of earlier Superman and Batman books from the late 80's, for inclusion in the multi-packs. There is also Turtles, which is admittedly from a slightly different era, as well as Aliens #1 (1988), which had at least 6 printings going into the early 90's. There are other examples, but those are the ones off the top.

 

Also, that little Roman numeral will probably be the clincher. If people can readily see, from the cover alone, which is which...it makes collecting ever so much easier, and thus more appealing.

 

And...Superman is Superman, and Bone is not.

 

You can't tell which Bone #1 is which printing, without either memorizing the logo colors (a difficult task), or opening the book.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

The value of the reprints is actually pretty sad.

There are 50 copies of first prints for every 1 copy of a fifth print on the CGC census.

 

50:1

 

 

You're placing too much emphasis on the census, for various reasons.

 

[valiantman]

I guess I'll throw in the towel.

 

There's just something fundamentally unsettling about celebrating the reprints above the first printings.

 

They only went to a second printing become some johnny-come-lately buyers didn't have their heads on straight in time for the real thing.

They only go to even more printings because the second printing short bus buyers were followed by an even shorter bus of slower-on-the-uptake buyers.

 

To say that the last people to figure out that the books were worth reading are the ones who benefit the most... just seems so... short bus.

[Broke as a Joke]

"The only thing that reprints have going for them is lower print.

They're not originals. They're not first appearances.

There are fewer of them."

 

This is truth. I would especially like CGC and other grading companies to not even put the 1st appearance notation on second and later printings. That might curb some of this nonsense.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

Right now, the MOS #18 CGC 9.8s alone are cumulatively worth a TOTAL of $112,200, if we value each one at $100 and count the signature series as $100 also.

 

The MOS #18 reprints, of all types, for all grades, have 126 copies on the CGC census.

Even if every one of them was worth $250 each, regardless of grade or printing number, that TOTAL value would only be $31,500.

 

As I have said elsewhen, this idea of "Market capitalization," using the census and GPA is a deeply, irreparably flawed way of looking at the market. It relies on data (the census) that does not represent the market in any but the broadest, most simplest of ways.

 

The census only tells us what has passed through CGC's doors, and it doesn't account for A. resubmissions without labels turned in or B. crackouts. It does not even begin to tell us what exists.

 

Plus, the method relies on data...GPA...that cannot be used to make these calculations. You CAN "market cap" a stock, because, as of this moment, it will cost you $58.85 to buy a share of Wal-Mart stock, whether you buy 1 share or 1 million shares. But you CAN buy 1 million shares, right now, or at least tomorrow, assuming money wasn't an issue.

 

You cannot buy all the CGC 9.8 copies of MOS #18, even if you wanted to, and you certainly wouldn't be able to buy them for $100 each, even with limitless resources. That renders extrapolation based on that figure totally useless.

 

There is a market for CGC graded MOS #18 reprints, but the size of that market is easily below $25,000.

The size of the market for MOS #18 first printings CGC 9.8 alone, is $100,000+.

 

MOS #18 1st print is currently worth slabbing in high grade (9.4+.) For many years, it was not. The "reprints" aren't necessarily worth slabbing.

 

These, and other factors, render the "market cap" method of looking at the comics market woefully inadequate.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

I guess I'll throw in the towel.

 

There's just something fundamentally unsettling about celebrating the reprints above the first printings.

 

They only went to a second printing become some johnny-come-lately buyers didn't have their heads on straight in time for the real thing.

They only go to even more printings because the second printing short bus buyers were followed by an even shorter bus of slower-on-the-uptake buyers.

 

To say that the last people to figure out that the books were worth reading are the ones who benefit the most... just seems so... short bus.

 

This is a fairly demeaning thing to say to the people who bought later printings, and assumes that everyone who did so, did so just because they "missed the boat" when they had the opportunity.

 

I wasn't alive when Lord of the Rings was first sold. Neither were you. If we buy reprints, are we "Johnny-come-latelies" who didn't have our heads on straight in time for the real thing...?

 

No, self-evidently we are not.

 

So, what if there was someone....like there were a lot of someones...who had nothing to do with comics, but became interested because of the media coverage surrounding Superman #75? MOS #18 had been out for weeks by then, and functionally sold out. If they are just interested in the story, why do they care if it's "not the real thing" because it's a second printing? It IS the real thing...to them. Identical in every way that matters.

 

The 5th printing of MOS #18 was printed some time in 1994, a year or more after the 1st printing. Are those people who bought them also Johnny-come-latelies..?

 

I don't read much of what some have been saying, but speaking for myself, I'm certainly not suggesting that, pound for pound, the 5th print should be worth more than the 1st print. That doesn't make any sense, and anyone suggesting that doesn't understand the situation.

 

However...in this case, the reality is that supply and demand has kicked in, and because the 4th and 5th printings are substantially rarer than the first printing, the price one has to pay to obtain one has risen above what one would "normally" have to pay. It's just like anything else. Time and chance has happened to these books, and as a result, they appear to be more "celebrated" than the first printings...but that is only the appearance, not the reality.

 

The fact that there are a 1000+ CGC 9.8 MOS #18 1st prints, and they STILL sell for $100+ on the market is a testament to the fact that the market HAS placed the "right" value on the "right" book. If there were a 1,000+ 9.8 5th prints, there is no way they would be selling for $100+. None.

 

One should not look at only one factor...the price...and make conclusions without considering these other factors.

[thecopperagekids]

Part of the reason that the DOS/FFAF later printings have market demand is because of the way they were made and distributed.

 

There were, of course, the initial reprintings based on immediate demand...the Superman #75s, for example...but several of the later printings, including the rarer ones, were made specifically for inclusion in the 2-packs, 3-packs, 20-packs, and storyline boxes.

 

 

2- and 3-packs were nothing new at the time, but storyline boxes were a uniquely early 90's invention, and DOS/FFAF proved to be quite good sellers in that format. Also new, the "20-packs (later 10)" consisting of a single month's output that were sold at Costco and the like.

 

With the advent of storyline boxes, along with the traditional 2- and 3-packs, DC now had a way to get back into the traditional "newsstand" market, like Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Target, and others, that had declined significantly in the preceding years. And, it clearly worked, because DC and Marvel continued the program through most of the mid-90's, before the crash's effects were felt completely, and sales could no longer justify these programs.

 

As a result of the storyline packs, DC had to have on hand a complete set to box (this was likely done by the same sub-contractor that assembled the 2- and 3-packs.) So, if they were out of, say, MOS #18 or Adventures #497....they sent an order back to the printer to print up another batch, adding the Roman numeral and different logo color, though that seems to have just been a quirk of someone making that decision at the time (the different logo color.)

 

There were also "unofficial" packs, which also contained later printings (mainly Adventures of Superman #498 3rd printing.)

 

(This, by the way, does much to dispel the myth that DC, Marvel, and other publishers don't warehouse books...they do, and this is an example of that.)

 

So, the only way to get these later printings, for the most part, was through these collector packs. Since the people who bought the "collector" packs were almost universally NOT collectors (they were simply interested in reading the story) and the packs/boxes were sold in mostly NON-collector venues, and since there was a near-universal disdain for later printings that persisted for at least another decade after the fact, a perfect storm of scarcity, attrition, and interest has resulted in the demand we see now, especially in high grade.

 

These items were not packed in any way that would prohibit damage. Though the boxes provided a measure of protection, it wasn't much, and any sort of impact to the box impacted the books as well. And, they weren't packed too tightly, and any movement resulted in rub to most or all of the books. The shrink-wrapped packs were no different, and had even less protection. Frankly, it's amazing any of these survived in high grade.

 

There is probably not a single store, in the 23 years this story has been in existence, that has ever owned multiples of any of the later printings, except by accident. They certainly couldn't order, say, the third printing of Adventures #499, for example, and why would they? No one wanted them. So, of course, they wouldn't have ever been in store stock, again, except by accident, and there certainly wouldn't have been any desire to preserve them in any meaningful way. So, the main source we have for high grade comics of the last 40 years...unsold store stock...was never a factor with these.

 

So, the only source for these later printings was in packs and boxes that people mostly bought to mostly read (and thus, damage), there was little done to preserve them, and quite possibly not a single person cared, if they even noticed...a situation that remained true for almost two decades.

 

It is therefore quite an accident of history that any of these survived at all, and a testament to the mentality of the collector that we have unopened boxes of these still lying around to this day (though they are rapidly disappearing as well.) For the last 25 years, the theory has been to save EVERYTHING, on the chance that something might click, someday, which is why anything even tangentially related to comics has been preserved.

 

Had these been books sold in the 1930's through 1950's, it's likely we would be talking about fragments of rumors. How many comics have come, gone, and disappeared into the ether, with not even a rumor of their existence?

 

To my knowledge, the DOS/FFAF boxes could contain any printings except the final printings of FFAF, which I *believe* (but would be happy to be corrected) were only available through the 2- and 3-packs. They are, of course, the rarest of the bunch (MOS #20 2nd, Action #686 2nd, Adventures #499 3rd [there is no second printing known of this book!] and Superman #77 3rd.)

 

This is unlike the situation with Bone, which was only reprinted to order, and was continually solicited throughout the 90's for "the latest printing" in Previews. As well, Bone #1 had a (reported) print run of only 3,000 copies, was an "Independent", and though it certainly achieved after-market notoriety, the near-constant availability of later printings, a base composed mostly of readers, rather than collectors, has created quite a divergent path between the two scenarios. You could always find "the latest printing" of Bone at a local store, and if you couldn't, you could simply ask for it to be ordered, and it showed up.

 

Now...high grade examples of Bone later printings are quite scarce...but there's really not too much demand on a collector basis for those books, and may not be.

 

Very well laid out, along with your other last post in this thread, regarding extrapolating CGC census data as an all inconlusuvely flawed way to break down the market....

I nominate this as "post of the week".

 

[Gatsby77]

There's just something fundamentally unsettling about celebrating the reprints above the first printings.

 

1) I'm with you on this & feel this way about the Batman 608 & 612 2nd printings.

 

I bought multiples of each of the first prints off the shelf. But I passed on both of the 2nd printings when they were released. And they struck me as odd because in each case my LCS (in greater DC) still had the first prints in stock.

 

2) I don't quite follow the Bone reprint argument -- are there really completionists for all of the reprints (or even, all of the Tick reprints) out there?

 

A better corollary, I think, would be the supposed market for all of The Killing Joke reprints, which Doug Sulipa has been citing in his Overstreet Market Reports since at least 2008.

 

From 2010: "Batman the Killing Joke (1988) had at least 11 Printings, with only the 1st Printings being Commom & a complete set near impossible to assemble. Typically 65-90% of the copies on the for sale market are First Printings, because dealers did NOT Stock-Up on Reprints."

 

Curious what others think about The Killing Joke reprints. Collectible as a set (most, if not all, had different color logos on the cover), or not?

[divad]

"The only thing that reprints have going for them is lower print.

They're not originals. They're not first appearances.

There are fewer of them."

 

This is truth. I would especially like CGC and other grading companies to not even put the 1st appearance notation on second and later printings. That might curb some of this nonsense.

 

Let it be done. They certainly don't qualify as "1st Appearances" in any way shape or form.

[divad]

There's just something fundamentally unsettling about celebrating the reprints above the first printings.

 

Agreed. But people can celebrate whatever they choose to celebrate. There's no accounting for it.

[divad]

You'll never find me with a pressed CGC 9.8 SS 5th print of MOS 18. What's the freakin' point? Manufactured collectibles. Ugh!

[Chillax23]

Well - since there seems to be some debate over the value of the 4th and 5th print of MOS18 I will certainly take your 4th and 5th prints in CGC 9.8. I need to complete my set in CGC 9.8

 

I do agree that the first print is the most important - but since it is such an easy book to obtain (i.e., if you have $120 you can get one) it makes collecting/obtaining it much less of a challenge. Whereas tracking down printings 2 through 5 in CGC 9.8 is challenging. Hence why people go after it.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

Curious what others think about The Killing Joke reprints. Collectible as a set (most, if not all, had different color logos on the cover), or not?

 

Absolutely.

 

I have up to the 14th printing. I *may* be missing the 12th.

 

I don't know if there's a 15th, but the hardcover came out in...2008? In time for the movie?

 

Easy to find:

 

1st

3rd

6th

 

Medium:

 

2nd

4th

7th

 

More difficult:

 

5th

8th

11th

14th

 

Very tough:

 

9th

10th

12th

13th

 

[GM8]

Bone #1 is a 1991 book that went to multiple reprintings... all of which have been viewed as "worthless reprints" despite the fact that the CGC census parallels the Man of Steel #18 reprints.

 

Man of Steel #18 (1992)

CGC Universal plus Signature

First print = 1,805 copies

Second print = 44 copies

Third print = 35 copies

Fourth print = 11 copies

Fifth print = 35 copies

 

Bone #1 (1991)

CGC Universal plus Signature

First print = 182 copies

Second print = 13 copies

Third print = 3 copies

Fourth print = 2 copies

Fifth print = 2 copies

Sixth print = 1 copy

Seventh print = 5 copies

Eighth print = 1 copy

Ninth print = 1 copy

 

There are 10 times fewer first prints on the CGC census for Bone #1 (compared to Man of Steel #18) and the price for Man of Steel #18 is more than 10 times lower than Bone #1.

 

But the Bone #1 (which is worth $1,000+ as a high grade first printing) reprints are basically worthless.

There are fewer Bone #1 reprints on the CGC census... and it's not clear how many were printed (or how easy they are to find today).

 

Do we think that the market for Bone #1 reprints will slowly rise closer to the value of the Bone #1 first prints (because Man of Steel #18 reprints are valuable)...

or is it more likely that the market for Man of Steel #18 reprints will slowly fall to reflect the standard view of reprints like Bone #1 reprints?

 

It's unlikely that these two Copper Age keys will have opposite behaving markets in the long run.

Markets show a regression to the mean (return to normal behavior) at some point.

 

That's a really interesting question. The simplest answer and the one that sounds most correct to me is that the demand for Superman keys has got to be thousands of times greater than Bone. Superman is Superman. Action Comics #1. Icon.

 

I'm a collector and just happen to know its a rare issue, but beyond that I know zero about the Bone comic.

 

Look at Spawn #1. One of the most un-rare comics there is but still with a lot of demand behind it. Collectors have gravitated to ANY issue that can be considered a first appearance and is rarer than Spawn #1: Spawn #1 Newsstand, Spawn #1 B&W, Rust #1.

 

Collector's want something the other guy hasn't got or is hard to get. Anyone with $20-25 right now can have a NM copy of MoS #18 1st print. To get the 4th or 5th print you need $50-100+ as of now.