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Superman: The Man of Steel #17 & 18 (Doomsday)
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Started by Brandon Shepherd,

879 posts in this topic

rjrjr

rjrjr

Posted
Posted
What was the initial print run on Star Wars #1? I know the later printings were never labeled as second or third printings, just reprint. So it is hard to know exactly what Marvel actually produced the first time they reprinted it.

 

Star Wars #1 was 200,000 - 250,000.

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rjrjr

rjrjr

Posted
Posted (edited)

My earlier postings were confusing (I went back to edit them several times), but that is because there are many versions of the Star Wars issues to consider.

 

Here is how I think the various printings of Star Wars (1977) rank (from easiest to hardest):

 

Star Wars #1 direct reprint (no reprint on cover, reprint on cover)

Star Wars #1 newsstand 1st print (200,000 - 250,000 printed)

Star Wars #1 newsstand reprint

Star Wars #1 $0.35 variant

 

Star Wars #2 direct reprint (no reprint on cover, reprint on cover)

Star Wars #2 newsstand 1st print

Star Wars #2 newsstand reprint

Star Wars #2 direct 1st print (this was considered uncommon at one time, until bags started showing up on eBay)

Star Wars #2 $0.35 variant

 

Star Wars #3 direct reprint (no reprint on cover, reprint on cover)

Star Wars #3 newsstand 1st print

Star Wars #3 newsstand reprint

Star Wars #3 direct 1st print (this was considered uncommon at one time, until bags started showing up on eBay)

Star Wars #3 $0.35 variant

 

Star Wars #4 direct reprint (no reprint on cover, reprint on cover)

Star Wars #4 newsstand 1st print

Star Wars #4 newsstand reprint

Star Wars #4 direct 1st print (this was considered uncommon at one time, until bags started showing up on eBay)

Star Wars #4 $0.35 variant

 

Star Wars #5 newsstand 1st print

Star Wars #5 direct 1st print

Star Wars #5 direct reprint (reprint on cover)

Star Wars #5 newsstand reprint (definitely harder to find than $0.35 variants; more printed than $0.35 variants of #1 - 4?)

 

Star Wars #6 newsstand 1st print

Star Wars #6 direct 1st print

Star Wars #6 direct reprint (reprint on cover)

Star Wars #6 newsstand reprint (definitely harder to find than $0.35 variants; magnitude harder to find than #5 newsstand reprint; more printed than $0.35 variants of #1 - 4?)

 

I'm still working on separating the reprint on cover versus no reprint on cover direct issues. Also, I don't really know which of the reprints can be considered 2nd or 3rd printings.

 

And this is all IMHO of course. I've been tracking these issues for years and it is possible my experience is completely wrong.

 

As for the Star Wars #5 and 6 newsstand reprints,they cannot be found at My Comic Shop, Mile High Comics, Amazon, Doug Sulipa, etc. I've exhausted every resource I know tracking down those 2 issues the past few years. They do show up on eBay about 3 or 4 times a year (#5 more than #6) but since nobody knows about how hard they are to find, they usually go for very, very little. Finding NM copies is almost impossible since these reprints were treated like garbage for many, many years.

Edited by rjrjr
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rjrjr

rjrjr

Posted
Posted (edited)
The first printings ($0.30 and $0.35) are the only ones with value, correct?

 

Yes. And the direct 1st printings (which are harder for #1 - 4) are often confused for reprints so they can be found for much, much less than the more common newsstand 1st printings.

 

The myriad of printings has created confusion (how many times have you seen a $0.35 direct reprint being offered as the rare $0.35 newsstand variant?) I have been working on a blog to hopefully clear up the confusion for Star Wars comic collectors. It was a chore to track down #5 and 6 newsstand reprints for this. I was planning on posting that one the day before Christmas.

Edited by rjrjr
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valiantman

valiantman

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The myriad of printings has created confusion (how many times have you seen a $0.35 direct reprint being offered as the rare $0.35 newsstand reprint?)

There's a dealer locally who is trying to sell it as "rare $0.35 reprint". lol

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rjrjr

rjrjr

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I remember when SW #1 came out, there were only 2 comic shops in the city at the time selling them for $3 each, the regular 30 cent edition. There wasn't a "direct market" yet

 

There has been a debate over the years on whether these direct market issues should be called direct or Whitman issues. I tend to think Whitman is more correct for these early Star Wars issues, but it seems like the trend has been to call them direct. So, I use the term direct.

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rjrjr

rjrjr

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Interesting stuff. (thumbs u

 

This website states that newsstands and directs were concurrent, not reprints (unless they state reprint).

http://www.rebelscum.com/30thAnn_EU.asp

 

 

A lot of great scummers there! Also some great information everything Star Wars.

 

It is a good article, but they have some incorrect information. For example, it is believed there are only 5 versions of Star Wars #1, not 7. One issue they have pictured twice and they also have the $0.35 issue with a diamond and bar codes which many believe does not exist. And reprints can be identified not only be a reprint on the cover in the character box, but also by the word reprint in the indicia. Not all reprints are identified on the cover.

 

Yes, confusing. This page is more accurate:

 

http://www.bipcomics.com/showcase/StarWars/Marvel/StarWars/001-006.html

Edited by rjrjr
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thecopperagekids

thecopperagekids

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The reprints of Bone #1 , did not come out the same month, as MOS 18 reprints did.....

We agree that MOS 18 fifth printing is from years later, right?

 

 

No, we do not.

 

The 5th printing of MOS 18 is dated the very same month as the 1st printing of MOS 18.

 

 

 

 

To be honest, I never really even looked and certainly have not hunted down Bone 1991 reprints like I have done with MOS 18 reprints.

That's part of my point. If MOS 18 reprints are a "turning point" in the hobby due to the scarcity of the reprints for a Copper Age key issue and the number of years that passed before anyone started looking for them, then we've all got an even bigger opportunity to change our view of a bigger Copper Age key (Bone #1) which has reprints that have been overlooked by everyone for even longer.

 

If there are reasons to value MOS 18 reprints, then there are potentially more reasons to value Bone 1 reprints.

 

Or, like many reprints, the MOS 18 reprints don't have a bright future... they have a temporary shine.

 

Well, I have written a veriatable treatise on why later printings of MOS 18 are valued and my preliminary thoughts on why Bone reprintings don't look like they have much room for growth....

 

I'm curious as to your rationale for being anti-MOS 18 reprints and being pro-Bone #1 reprints....and your sentiment that "many reprints don't have a bright future".

 

Batman 608, 612 reprints are still worth more than 1st prints, and so on....

 

 

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valiantman

valiantman

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The reprints of Bone #1 , did not come out the same month, as MOS 18 reprints did.....

We agree that MOS 18 fifth printing is from years later, right?

No, we do not.

 

The 5th printing of MOS 18 is dated the very same month as the 1st printing of MOS 18.

The 5th printing of MOS 18 is from 1994, or later. They didn't change the date... it's a reprint.

It isn't actually from 1992. If that's the basis for your argument then...

 

Well, I have written a veriatable treatise on why later printings of MOS 18 are valued and my preliminary thoughts on why Bone reprintings don't look like they have much room for growth....

You've written a veritable (<-- that's how you spell it) treatise while thinking a years-later reprint came out the same month?

Anyone can produce rare reprints years later. And they do.

When do those reprints years later have more value than the originals?

 

Man of Steel #18... and... (shrug)

 

The only way that Man of Steel #18 maintains values of reprints higher than the first print value is that Man of Steel #18 reprints continue to break the decades-old market standard of lower-valued reprints.

 

Amazing Spider-man #1 has a nearly 50 year old reprint from 1966. It is 5 times "rarer" on the CGC census. It's not worth anywhere near the real thing.

 

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valiantman

valiantman

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Batman 608, 612 reprints are still worth more than 1st prints, and so on....

Both of these are ten years newer than MOS #18. Both of these have more desirable cover art on the second printing.

 

Batman #612 second printing basically started the sketch cover craze... that's a collector's market unto itself.

Batman #608 second printing is a totally new cover that looks much better than the giant boot on the first printing.

I'm not going to say that all new cover art on reprints can't have more value in the market. It sometimes does.

Especially when that all new cover art is from the very next month... or very soon after the real thing.

But that's not something that was happening in 1992 for Marvel and DC.

 

The only cover art differences between MOS #18 reprints is a word color and a little Roman numeral... and a couple of years since the real thing.

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rjrjr

rjrjr

Posted
Posted (edited)
Batman 608, 612 reprints are still worth more than 1st prints, and so on....

Both of these are ten years newer than MOS #18. Both of these have more desirable cover art on the second printing.

 

Batman #612 second printing basically started the sketch cover craze... that's a collector's market unto itself.

Batman #608 second printing is a totally new cover that looks much better than the giant boot on the first printing.

 

The difference between MOS #18 reprints is a word color and a little Roman numeral... and a couple of years.

 

valiantman, I get what you are saying, but who are we to decide what people want to collect? If some of these comics are harder to find, and the demand is there, I can see why they rise in value. Some of us collectors are completist. We want to have every permutation of our favorite comics or titles. I have this problem myself. I not only collect all the different versions of the original Marvel Star Wars title (including foreign editions) but I also collect direct and newsstand editions of the Dark Horse Star Wars titles. Think about how masochist that sounds.

 

Would I spend more on a DH SW newsstand issue than a direct issue? Yes, I would be willing to spend cover price for a newsstand issue, whereas most of the direct issues are worth far less than cover price. lol

 

As for crazy, think about this, a simple number change on the cover of Star Wars #1 (a 0 to a 5) can mean the difference of hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Thousands! For a cover that is identical except for the price.

 

I do have to ask though, wouldn't the ads be different in a comic reprinted a few years later?

Edited by rjrjr
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valiantman

valiantman

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valiantman, I get what you are saying, but who are we to decide what people want to collect? If some of these comics are harder to find, and the demand is there, I can see why they rise in value. Some of us collectors are completist. We want to have every permutation of our favorite comics or titles. I have this problem myself. I not only collect all the different versions of the original Marvel Star Wars title (including foreign editions) but I also collect direct and newsstand editions of the Dark Horse Star Wars titles. Think about how masochist that sounds.

 

Would I spend more on a DH SW newsstand issue than a direct issue? Yes, I would be willing to spend cover price for a newsstand issue, whereas most of the direct issues are worth far less than cover price. lol

I'm perpetually trying to understand the market.

The market has tendencies, whether we agree with them or not, to balance itself out in the long run.

Those market tendencies are closely tied when the books being examined are both keys of the same age.

 

Either Bone #1 reprints will tend to increase (because of this new interest in formerly worthless reprints from the early 1990s) or MOS #18 reprints will tend to decrease (because the market doesn't continuously prop up the value of reprints).

 

The market won't allow them both to be Copper Age keys, reprinted multiple times, with completely different markets.

 

If people want to pay big money to obtain MOS #18 reprints, they're definitely free to do so, but the market is either telling us that's possibly overpaying... or that there's possibly a better opportunity with Bone #1 reprints.

 

Arguing that these are completely separate markets which are essentially opposites of each other, even though they're both the same age books in the same era with 5+ reprintings (at a time when no other books reprinted that many times) doesn't make any sense to me.

These two books are tied together by history... whether they like it or not... and the market will not allow them to be opposites forever.

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
I remember when SW #1 came out, there were only 2 comic shops in the city at the time selling them for $3 each, the regular 30 cent edition. There wasn't a "direct market" yet

 

There was, but it was in its infancy. It had been around since 1974-ish.

 

Marvel began testing the efficacy of Direct market cover markings beginning with the Feb, 1977 cover dated issues, and there are Direct market versions of Star Wars.

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rjrjr

rjrjr

Posted
Posted (edited)
valiantman, I get what you are saying, but who are we to decide what people want to collect? If some of these comics are harder to find, and the demand is there, I can see why they rise in value. Some of us collectors are completist. We want to have every permutation of our favorite comics or titles. I have this problem myself. I not only collect all the different versions of the original Marvel Star Wars title (including foreign editions) but I also collect direct and newsstand editions of the Dark Horse Star Wars titles. Think about how masochist that sounds.

 

Would I spend more on a DH SW newsstand issue than a direct issue? Yes, I would be willing to spend cover price for a newsstand issue, whereas most of the direct issues are worth far less than cover price. lol

I'm perpetually trying to understand the market.

The market has tendencies, whether we agree with them or not, to balance itself out in the long run.

Those market tendencies are closely tied when the books being examined are both keys of the same age.

 

Either Bone #1 reprints will tend to increase (because of this new interest in formerly worthless reprints from the early 1990s) or MOS #18 reprints will tend to decrease (because the market doesn't continuously prop up the value of reprints).

 

The market won't allow them both to be Copper Age keys, reprinted multiple times, with completely different markets.

 

If people want to pay big money to obtain MOS #18 reprints, they're definitely free to do so, but the market is either telling us that's possibly overpaying... or that there's possibly a better opportunity with Bone #1 reprints.

 

Here are my thoughts on this:

 

Bone #1 will eventually become a declining key. With no new stories, movies, TV shows, etc. to keep people interested in the character(s), that comic will fade. I understand the books are still sold by Scholastic. Bone reminds me very much of Pogo. And if you don't know who Pogo is, that is exactly my point.

 

MOS #18 is the introduction of a character that DC will bring back again and again and again. He will appear in future comics, movies, TV shows, etc. That is, unless they irreparably damage the character, which both Marvel and DC have done to successful characters before. (Lobo, Foolkiller, maybe even Ghost Rider recently, etc.)

 

So, if you believe Bone will fade and Doomsday is a fixture, and I suspect many comic collectors do, why would you value a Bone #1 reprint highly? On the other hand, the first appearance of Doomsday (assuming his arm isn't considered his first appearance in MOS #17) could be a coveted book for years. If you think about it, Superman only has a few good villains, Lex Luthor, Metallo, Parasite, Brainiac, Zod, Mongul, and possibly Bizarro. I see Doomsday sticking around as a Superman villain. DC doesn't get many new, good characters from creators, so they will milk those they do get for as long as they can.

Edited by rjrjr
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