Pep 22 CGC VG+ can be yours...for only 200k!

[sacentaur]

E-bay ....i.e. the Garbage can....another hustler, showman, ......200K what a joke.......

 

Folks, if you want a laugh....go to ebay....

 

you are right about that Mitch.

 

Especially this clown

 

Huckster supreme

 

Leave it to Bill to hit the nail on the head with a single swing of the hammer.

 

That "clown" has formed his own cult (membership = 2), Theo-ology!

[Johnny545]

Well said Ed.

[Rip]

Ed is a class act (thumbs u

[ciorac]

What is a reasonable multiple for raw copies if 8 have been graded?

I've sold 3 raw lower grades in the last year+ ...22-30k

 

Do you have any kind of sense of what percentage of the raw universe those 3 represented?

 

Did they come out of the woodwork because the book has started to get some recognition or have you seen a few raws yearly?

I actually had never owned a copy up until about 2 yrs ago. A friend sold me his and I sold it back to him next day (just so I could own it )

 

Sure prices recently realized had a lot to do with it

 

My ownership of a Pep 22 was even shorter than yours Rick. I traded some books at San Diego Comic Con in 1995 to a collector of some renown for his Pep 22. I put it on the wall and it lasted less than an hour and someone bought it.

 

About an hour after that, the collector that traded it to me came back with "traders remorse" and wanted to undo the trade. He was crestfallen to learn it had already sold.

[ciorac]

E-bay ....i.e. the Garbage can....another hustler, showman, ......200K what a joke.......

 

Folks, if you want a laugh....go to ebay....

 

you are right about that Mitch.

 

Especially this clown

 

Huckster supreme

 

Leave it to Bill to hit the nail on the head with a single swing of the hammer.

 

That "clown" has formed his own cult (membership = 2), Theo-ology!

 

 

I do find it Ironic that he has the unmitigated gall to call someone a huckster when his best buddy is the biggest huckster of them all

[MagicMasonry-migration]

Go easy on the popcorn guys.

 

Dear MagicMasonry,

 

I sincerely implore you to carefully consider the direction you take from here.

 

It seems from your listing (and eBay store info) that you are transitioning from the world of gaming into the world of comics. In addition to being a fantastic community in general, the membership of these boards are an incredible resource for knowledge about all facets of comics. I cannot overstate how much can be learned about comics by spending time here. Further, if you pay your dues and become a stand-up member of this community, there is a fantastic comic marketplace here where buyers abound for the types of high-dollar books you are attempting to sell.

 

However, coming in here guns ablaze, implying people are jealous of your books, calling people whiners, etc. does not play well - actually, that's an understatement. You will be straight run out of here, and you will likely regret it later...it happens again and again. And trust me - your experience selling a Hulk 1 or Showcase 4 isn't going to mean mess to anyone here. Hang around for a bit and you'll see what I mean. So, measure your responses, and again, I think you will be glad if you soak up what these boards have to offer, and if you contribute in kind. It's not too late, but things could turn quickly. Perhaps begin by taking a step back and introducing yourself in the new member thread CLICK HERE .

 

Ed

 

 

I'm a pretty difficult person to tick off. But when I do a google search for "Pep 22" and find a thread devoted to trashing my listing and misleading readers with a title implying that my actual asking price is 200,000 when it's clearly functioning as an "or best offer" listing, it really grinded my gears. And I only implied ONE person was jealous, and if it's not jealousy, then what pray tell is it? What motivates someone to make a thread like this? If I see something I don't like/agree with, I don't go and create a thread on a social site somewhere to stroke my ego. Maybe it's just me, but I call that jealousy. And what? Was I supposed to come in here and THANK the original poster and all the cries of "joke" and "hustler" and "scammer"? Seems the guns were already blazing before I got here bud.

 

And Ed, as for me citing my selling of Hulk and Showcase, thanks, but it wasn't intended to mean "spoon" to anyone, I was merely pointing out that I'm a real live seller and not some random ebayer trying to pull a scam with a Pep 22. I have lots of awesome stuff with way more coming.

 

In regards to the opening poster complaining about raw owners not counting. Sorry I didn't scour the planet asking everyone if they happen to have a copy of Pep 22 before making my listing. See, that's kind of the whole purpose to the census. Since it's been out long enough at this point to give everyone a fairly accurate account of how many key issues exist out there, particular major keys as big as this, as they have the most incentive to get graded. Plus, it's MY LISTING, I can say whatever the heck I want. Is my word meant to be taken as gospel? Are you going to criticize every ebay listing out there with a description you disagree with? Why don't you make thread for each one? Seriously dude.

 

Now here's someone who would agree with most of the points I've made. Here's an article I found, just the other day, written by Walter Durajliha, an Overstreet Advisor and comic book expert (who needs more pull at Overstreet!) from early 2012, who agrees with almost everything I talk about in the description of my Pep listings. And wouldn't you know, he makes the same point as me in regard to Pep 22's vs. Archie #1's in the CENSUS ONLY! You don't see him scouring the planet to take into account every single possible copy to write his article and make comparisons! (Interesting side note, there's been 9 more Archie #1's to surface since this article... and only ONE pep 22!)

http://www.comicbookdaily.com/collecting-community/market-trends/are-1-issues-overvalued/ (note that all prices mentioned are from 2011)

 

@Peter: You're preaching to the choir when it comes to Overstreet. As awful as they are with books like this, they are nonetheless a factor in the going prices. While their exact prices in relation to grade are generally a joke, it's the PERCENTAGE at which they change that's important. For instance, the 5.0 sold in 2010 for 50,000 when the 9.2 price was 50,000, then the 6.5 sold for 111,000 in 2012 when the 9.2 price was 110,000...what does this tell you? Do you think it's a mere coincidence that the last two mid-grade sales went for precisely the NM- price? I think not. This tells us that people are willing to pay NM- prices on mid-grade Pep 22's. So, logic would dictate that if the 2013 NM- price is at 140,000, then mid-grades would now go for around just that. Since mine is slightly under the 5.0, I put it's current value at somewhere between 95-115K. Another way to arrive at this number is from the sales in 2012, with the 6.5 at 111,000 and the 2.0 at 28,680. My 4.5 is right in the middle of these two, leaning slightly closer to the 6.5. So, in 2012, my book would have been worth roughly 75K. And since the Overstreet % increases have shown consistency, it's logical to deduce that their increase of 27% this year applies yet again, making my book worth about 95K in 2013. But since it's almost 2014, and I don't even plan on selling 'til maybe after the next issue in June or July(unless I get a sweet offer), I think it's a safe bet there will be another good % increase, bringing it to around 110-125K.

[Gotham Kid]

@MagicMasonry

 

Whatever price you eventually do sell the copy for, best of luck to you. It is no doubt a very hard book to find, blue or purple. Congrats on the find.

[GoldenPRGuy]

Are you going to criticize every ebay listing out there with a description you disagree with? Why don't you make thread for each one? Seriously dude.

Ha, actually that is exactly what happens, but it's not necessarily a bad thing. I get that stumbling across this upset you … but I, for one, generally supported your auction and asking price, and was glad someone started a thread where I could talk about it. Spend more time on the boards, I can assure you it's not group think. Most people disagree with one another on a regular basis, but tend to do so within the thread that has already been started on a topic, rather than creating a new one with a title that highlights our own opinion. I realize it has already been said, but this particular forum is home to serious GA collectors and dealers with $$, not a bunch of moody emo teens masterbating to manga looking for something to complain about. Regardless of the tone of the initial post 1304 collectors/potential buyers were cued in to your auction.

 

Selfishly I hope you don't write the CGC forums off … I am certain your book will sell, most likely privately (maybe even to someone reading or adding to this thread), and I want to know what it goes for!

 

Oh and one more thing … I am SUPER JEALOUS of your book!

[G.A.tor]

I sold a raw 2.0 at heroes con this last June ... I had sold a raw 2.0 at sdcc the year before for 22k and it sold within hours of me putting it out. So we priced this comparable copy at 30k and not only did it sell within hours, but pictures of my booth made it here on the boards and I had two boardies ready to pay the 30k asking instantly for it. Which led me to believe I was underpriced. So a 2.0 raw (book is rare enough that it is not Nec to cgc lower grade copies) could push 35-40k right now.

 

That said, I believe, i am in part, responsible for the ospg reflecting the new price. I gave bob the sales data (my raw data as well as letting him know/confirming, that the cgc 6.5 that cconnect auctioned had also sold privately the months before, so it really sold 2x at that price point. Once privately and once publicly That was enough for him to move the price, I suspect, because folks know bob doesn't move the guide on a single sales point. ) and was part of the booth where the 6.5 copy was displayed in NYcc in 2011. That said, there really haven't been any more "historic" type sales to cause bob to increase the guide 27% again this year ....so you extrapolating that data is a "leap" IMO (though it is possible bob will increase again but unlikely a large percent)

 

As for your asking price, you "did" price at 200k on eBay, correct? Sure there is a best offer option but you can't deny you set the price for a bin that most learned folks find unreasonable. And I believe you set such a high price hoping to bring attention to the book on "social forums" such as this (and congrats, you succeeded! ) Folks don't start threads for little lulu 87 priced 3x FMv on eBay because there is nothing noteworthy about it. Any pep 22 is noteworthy to discuss and in this case someone started a thread for folks to discuss.

 

Now the evaluation part I find to be erroneous. The 6.5 is the second highest graded copy and possibly the highest copy to be on the market for some time. That played largely into getting over 100k for the book (not once, but twice...so I think it is safe to say the 110K is a fairly accurate FMv for that copy). A 4.5 copy is not judged "linearly " as to where it falls between two sales points. Prices rise exponentially for higher grades. So IMO the 4.5 would actually be valued closer to the 2.0 or 5.0 than the 6.5. That said:

 

What is FMv for a slightly brittle 4.5 copy? Probably 60k range. If pq was better I'd say 75k would be possible to the right buyer (nothing personal but the pq is a real downer on a book like this, regardless of how rare). But even a year from now, 75k for your copy might be unrealistic...or maybe not. Putting book up with a no reserve auction is quickest way to establish FMv at the time of auction but even then, one sale doesn't make a market (even on the rare ones!)

 

Just my opinion. feel free to dismiss if you like (thumbs u

 

[Sqeggs]

A $200K BIN and statements like "ONLY 8 PEOPLE OWN ONE" and you're surprised that people were poking fun at your listing?

 

"Plus, it's MY LISTING, I can say whatever the heck I want." Of course, you can … and we can say whatever the heck we want about it!

[Flex Mentallo]

E-bay ....i.e. the Garbage can....another hustler, showman, ......200K what a joke.......

 

Folks, if you want a laugh....go to ebay....

 

you are right about that Mitch.

 

Especially this clown

 

Huckster supreme

 

Leave it to Bill to hit the nail on the head with a single swing of the hammer.

 

That "clown" has formed his own cult (membership = 2), Theo-ology!

 

 

I do find it Ironic that he has the unmitigated gall to call someone a huckster when his best buddy is the biggest huckster of them all

 

Unmitigated gall is my favorite.

[Timely]

He could also take it a step further and say it's almost one-of-a-kind. Only 2 certified copies exist graded 4.5

[VintageComics]

That said, I believe, i am in part, responsible for the ospg reflecting the new price.

 

When I bought my first copy a few years ago I paid double what any other dealer was willing to pay for it (it was a relatively known copy that was bought at a show and many of the dealers that knew about the book were Overstreet advisers) because I recognized that the book was undervalued. As soon as I purchased that copy, I had a string of people who wanted one as well. That started my trek to acquire more copies.

 

While I didn't report my transactions to Overstreet I'm pretty sure my early activity with the book (just before the massive price rise) had something to do with the rising interest in Archie as I was a believer in the character.

 

I went through several copies of Pep #22 and Archie #1 over the past years.

 

I was just surprised it took that long for people to catch onto Archie.

[Flex Mentallo]

He could also take it a step further and say it's almost one-of-a-kind. Only 2 certified copies exist graded 4.5

 

And the only one with brittle pages!

[comixcroz]

He could also take it a step further and say it's almost one-of-a-kind. Only 2 certified copies exist graded 4.5

 

And the only one with brittle pages!

[MagicMasonry-migration]

Sigh.

 

Once again, the BIN price is SUPPOSED to be way high! The whole purpose is to bring in offers without getting lowballed. If a seller sets the BIN near the actual price he wants, then people will make offers waaaay below what he actually wants. Hence the high price! And obviously it's an attention getter! You're right about that!

 

And Gator, how do you explain the 5.0 getting 50K in 2010? There was no sale prior to that. What made Bob raise the price from 38K to 50K, and then for someone to pay that NM- price on the 5.0 a few months later?! Better yet, what made him raise it from 50K to 70K the next year with no sales to back that one up? That was a 40% increase!

 

Also, wouldn't you say that my copy isn't that far off from the 5.0? And wouldn't you agree that my copy is currently the highest graded copy on the market for sometime now? I don't see the 5.0 or the 6.5 going back on the market for a long time, not if the owners are smart, or certainly not if they're big time collectors/Archie fanatics who would go to the grave with their book. I think my book will be as good as it gets for some time if someone really wants this title.

 

And in regards to the "slightly brittle pages". I was shocked at this description as I went through the book several times before going to the CGC. The pages fanned just fine without any crumbling or flaking that you would imagine when hearing the term "brittle", they simply looked tan to brown. There is definitely a MAJOR difference between actually having "brittle pages" and "slightly brittle pages". There is definitely a LOT of emphasis on the word "slightly" if a 4.5 can have this description. Actual "brittle pages" are only seen at 1.0 or poor, so yeah.

 

*Edit @the two hyenas above: See Signature. Also, how's your copy look?

[GoldenPRGuy]

I was just surprised it took that long for people to catch onto Archie.

 

Right!! This is why I actually like to see a high asking price, even though in the case of Pep 22 it prices me out of the market. It is high time Archie gets some respect from collectors as a whole. I can still remember the nasty looks I received from dealers when I was a kid when I asked where they kept their old Archie comics … "oh, I don't know … in the back", "try the kids section", "we don't carry those books, no one buys them!" I was buying stuff from the 40's and 50's not a brand new digest. D-bags!

 

Have to add … I'm loving the prices that SparkleCity is generating right now on eBay. Slabbed Pep 22's might be rare, but even 20+ slabbed copies of Archie 1 is still a relatively low number compared to all the collectors out there. I hope the prices just keep going through the roof!

[Primetime]

I sold a raw 2.0 at heroes con this last June ... I had sold a raw 2.0 at sdcc the year before for 22k and it sold within hours of me putting it out. So we priced this comparable copy at 30k and not only did it sell within hours, but pictures of my booth made it here on the boards and I had two boardies ready to pay the 30k asking instantly for it. Which led me to believe I was underpriced. So a 2.0 raw (book is rare enough that it is not Nec to cgc lower grade copies) could push 35-40k right now.

 

That said, I believe, i am in part, responsible for the ospg reflecting the new price. I gave bob the sales data (my raw data as well as letting him know/confirming, that the cgc 6.5 that cconnect auctioned had also sold privately the months before, so it really sold 2x at that price point. Once privately and once publicly That was enough for him to move the price, I suspect, because folks know bob doesn't move the guide on a single sales point. ) and was part of the booth where the 6.5 copy was displayed in NYcc in 2011. That said, there really haven't been any more "historic" type sales to cause bob to increase the guide 27% again this year ....so you extrapolating that data is a "leap" IMO (though it is possible bob will increase again but unlikely a large percent)

 

As for your asking price, you "did" price at 200k on eBay, correct? Sure there is a best offer option but you can't deny you set the price for a bin that most learned folks find unreasonable. And I believe you set such a high price hoping to bring attention to the book on "social forums" such as this (and congrats, you succeeded! ) Folks don't start threads for little lulu 87 priced 3x FMv on eBay because there is nothing noteworthy about it. Any pep 22 is noteworthy to discuss and in this case someone started a thread for folks to discuss.

 

Now the evaluation part I find to be erroneous. The 6.5 is the second highest graded copy and possibly the highest copy to be on the market for some time. That played largely into getting over 100k for the book (not once, but twice...so I think it is safe to say the 110K is a fairly accurate FMv for that copy). A 4.5 copy is not judged "linearly " as to where it falls between two sales points. Prices rise exponentially for higher grades. So IMO the 4.5 would actually be valued closer to the 2.0 or 5.0 than the 6.5. That said:

 

What is FMv for a slightly brittle 4.5 copy? Probably 60k range. If pq was better I'd say 75k would be possible to the right buyer (nothing personal but the pq is a real downer on a book like this, regardless of how rare). But even a year from now, 75k for your copy might be unrealistic...or maybe not. Putting book up with a no reserve auction is quickest way to establish FMv at the time of auction but even then, one sale doesn't make a market (even on the rare ones!)

 

Just my opinion. feel free to dismiss if you like (thumbs u

sounds like a great OSPG market report

[EC ed]

*Edit @the two hyenas above: See Signature. Also, how's your copy look?

for future reference, his signature to which he refers: "'You kiddin'? You think I'd join this crummy snobatorium? This whole place sucks!' - Al Czervik"

 

Sigh, indeed.

 

 

 

[MagicMasonry-migration]

He could also take it a step further and say it's almost one-of-a-kind. Only 2 certified copies exist graded 4.5

 

Oh, and I forgot to mention, a big time Archie/MLJ collector contacted me through eBay and said he knows the guy who has the other 4.5 and that it won't be for sale either. Thanks for reminding me.