Done With Metro

[Foxtrot70]

I echo Artboys sentiment. I think the bottom line is that metro is a high vol dealer and is not willing to spend the money to bump Quality Control on grading as it eats into profit margin. That is really the disservice in ques and it is not just a problem for metro, but many comic dealers abroad. They will take back a book, but you get to eat the expense and frustration for their lack of QC. I can imagine it cost some where around $50-60k per year to add an employee who could perform this level of work so obviously not a "easy" decision to make. Now a person can make argument that 15 years ago, (pre internet) mail order was shot and grading was even more subjective, so at some level, it is better than it used to be, but as much as we pay for books, even when they are $100 each and not $1000, extra care builds long term trust.

 

[mrmyst]

I echo Artboys sentiment. I think the bottom line is that metro is a high vol dealer and is not willing to spend the money to bump Quality Control on grading as it eats into profit margin. That is really the disservice in ques and it is not just a problem for metro, but many comic dealers abroad. They will take back a book, but you get to eat the expense and frustration for their lack of QC. I can imagine it cost some where around $50-60k per year to add an employee who could perform this level of work so obviously not a "easy" decision to make. Now a person can make argument that 15 years ago, (pre internet) mail order was shot and grading was even more subjective, so at some level, it is better than it used to be, but as much as we pay for books, even when they are $100 each and not $1000, extra care builds long term trust.

 

Unless you have a mole on the inside, or take part in Metro's business meetings, it's unfair to make that statement.

 

 

[jimbo_707]

I echo Artboys sentiment. I think the bottom line is that metro is a high vol dealer and is not willing to spend the money to bump Quality Control on grading as it eats into profit margin. That is really the disservice in ques and it is not just a problem for metro, but many comic dealers abroad. They will take back a book, but you get to eat the expense and frustration for their lack of QC. I can imagine it cost some where around $50-60k per year to add an employee who could perform this level of work so obviously not a "easy" decision to make. Now a person can make argument that 15 years ago, (pre internet) mail order was shot and grading was even more subjective, so at some level, it is better than it used to be, but as much as we pay for books, even when they are $100 each and not $1000, extra care builds long term trust.

 

Unless you have a mole on the inside, or take part in Metro's business meetings, it's unfair to make that statement.

 

As long as we're speculating, I'd wager that the over-grading is deliberate and strategic. They know that most people won't bother to return books. Most people don't like to believe they've been ripped off, so they'll talk themselves into believing they got a fair deal even if they would not have otherwise agreed with the grade.

[cheetah]

FWIW, I will give you my impression of Metro's grading practices.

 

1. Overall, their grades match up well with CGC's as long as you have the book pressed. If you don't, they will run a grade higher than CGC.

 

2. They have always been good with returns for me and have been open to giving me a store credit for grading and shipping fees on restored items.

 

3. They have raw books listed as Mile Highs that CGC says are not Mile Highs. Fishler disagrees with CGC pretty adamantly. I have three slabs that were rejected as Mile Highs and Fishler says he will look at them but I haven't sent them back yet.

 

4. The longer the book has been in their collection, the more likely that grade will be wrong.

 

5. They do not take page quality into consideration when it comes to grade. CGC hammers anything with light tan or worse pages.

 

6. They do not take stains into consideration the way CGC does. A 9.0 with a small stain to Metro is a 7,5 to CGC.

 

7. If a pedigree book, particularly a Mile High, has a significant defect, they do not factor this into their grade as uniformly as they should. Their grade is more likely a Qualified grade. Sometimes the defect is mentioned in the book description but sometimes it is not. Again, the longer they have had a book, the more likely the grade and description will not be accurate.

 

8. I have received multiple broken slabs in many of my most recent shipments. They do take them back and have them reslabbed but better packing would be appreciate.

 

9. They do not take care of slabs in their stock and so many of them are scratched, cracked and have the top labels missing. Seems wrong to spend $5,000 on a book to have the slab look so crappy.

 

 

[telerites]

 

2. They have always been good with returns for me and have been open to giving me a store credit for grading and shipping fees on restored items.

 

 

Jeff

 

I'm sure you spend a lot more than I have at Metro but this was never offered as an option to me. I have no problem with offering customers who spend more with certain perks similar to auction houses offering discounts to sellers with better books. Also as I mentioned, their stated policy states no reimbursement for shipping.grading costs on restored books.

 

Just throwing this out there if someone else runs into the same situation, they shouldn't necessarily expect reimbursement/credit.

 

Of course, if Metro wants to throw some credit my way for my out of pocket costs, I wouldn't be shy about taking it.

[Mutie Fan]

I've only purchased one book from Metro. I'm thinking of sending it off to be slabbed to see how it grades out vs what I bought it as (bought as a 4.0). I do believe it has a little potential for pressing as well.

[50YrsCollctngCmcs]

Always take a look at San Diego and then a little voice says, "Walk away!" That voice has served me well for over twenty years!!

[venum68]

I can back up what Cheetah is saying about broken slabs.

 

I bought a Green Mask #6(CGC 8.5) from them about 2 months ago. There were scans of the front and back cover and the case was perfect. When I received the book, the case was totaled. The shipping box was perfect and the book was packaged very well. So, obviously, the damage was done to the case before it was packaged. You would think that some sort of quality control would have stepped up and notified me, but not so much. Now, I don't care about the case as long as the book is fine (which remarkable it was), but I will eventually resell this book and then I will have to worry about it.

I called to talk to them about it and was summarily read their policy on damaged CGC cases. In a nutshell, their policy states that they are not responsible for damaged cases. They did tell me that they would make an exception and get the book re-holdered if I would pay the shipping. Well, I'm pretty sure the shipping charges would cost more than the re-holder fee. Not to mention the several months I would have to wait to get the book back. So, when you weigh the cost of the holder against the aggravation and cost of sending it back, it's just not worth it. Which is a fact that Metro knows as well. So the customer pays the price either way.

[Artboy99]

I can back up what Cheetah is saying about broken slabs.

 

I bought a Green Mask #6(CGC 8.5) from them about 2 months ago. There were scans of the front and back cover and the case was perfect. When I received the book, the case was totaled. The shipping box was perfect and the book was packaged very well. So, obviously, the damage was done to the case before it was packaged. You would think that some sort of quality control would have stepped up and notified me, but not so much. Now, I don't care about the case as long as the book is fine (which remarkable it was), but I will eventually resell this book and then I will have to worry about it.

I called to talk to them about it and was summarily read their policy on damaged CGC cases. In a nutshell, their policy states that they are not responsible for damaged cases. They did tell me that they would make an exception and get the book re-holdered if I would pay the shipping. Well, I'm pretty sure the shipping charges would cost more than the re-holder fee. Not to mention the several months I would have to wait to get the book back. So, when you weigh the cost of the holder against the aggravation and cost of sending it back, it's just not worth it. Which is a fact that Metro knows as well. So the customer pays the price either way.

 

Exactly the type of non-disclosure that I have been plagued with in dealing with them. Clearly the book is shipped out in a broken cgc slab and now you deal with the aftermath.

It is amazing what some disclosure would mean to their future and current business. Imagine if you were contacted:

 

Dear Sir,

 

in pulling your purchased comics we noted the CGC slab was in fact broken. We have sent it for reholdering, and this is the delay in shipping your book.

 

Or give you the option of sending for re-holder.

 

[Mephisto]

Exactly the type of non-disclosure that I have been plagued with in dealing with them. Clearly the book is shipped out in a broken cgc slab and now you deal with the aftermath.

It is amazing what some disclosure would mean to their future and current business. Imagine if you were contacted:

 

Dear Sir,

 

in pulling your purchased comics we noted the CGC slab was in fact broken. We have sent it for reholdering, and this is the delay in shipping your book.

 

Or give you the option of sending for re-holder.

 

Storms did this for me. Emailed me to let me know the case was cracked when he found the book in his stock. Told me he could send it as is or if I was ok waiting he would send to CGC and have it shipped direct to me. This was all done on his dime. The book was relatively cheap as well. It was an FF 67 in CGC 8.5. Might see an up tick due to Warlock appearing in future Marvel movies but it's not a huge book.

[sacentaur]

Exactly the type of non-disclosure that I have been plagued with in dealing with them. Clearly the book is shipped out in a broken cgc slab and now you deal with the aftermath.

It is amazing what some disclosure would mean to their future and current business. Imagine if you were contacted:

 

Dear Sir,

 

in pulling your purchased comics we noted the CGC slab was in fact broken. We have sent it for reholdering, and this is the delay in shipping your book.

 

Or give you the option of sending for re-holder.

 

Storms did this for me. Emailed me to let me know the case was cracked when he found the book in his stock. Told me he could send it as is or if I was ok waiting he would send to CGC and have it shipped direct to me. This was all done on his dime. The book was relatively cheap as well. It was an FF 67 in CGC 8.5. Might see an up tick due to Warlock appearing in future Marvel movies but it's not a huge book.

 

Storms (highradecomics.com) has always done right by me - that's why I look forward to doing business with him, and I will never do business with Metropolis again.

[VintageComics]

 

From what I can see, even from the small scan and the book residing in a CGC holder, is that this book is clearly trimmed on the bottom edge.

 

The bottom of the book looks like it was trimmed off with a pair of scissors...you can see a very crooked edge from the hand trim job (as opposed to the usual, cutting blade trim jobs that are a little more tricky to catch).

 

I was told by some fairly competent people is that Fishler is the best in the hobby for catching restoration so it must be someone else checking the books for resto.

 

 

[nearmint]

Not to mention the several months I would have to wait to get the book back.

 

Just an FYI, CGC reholders books in 10 business days.

[cheetah]

Not to mention the several months I would have to wait to get the book back.

 

Just an FYI, CGC reholders books in 10 business days.

 

Ehh, when things are going right they do. Right now it is easily three weeks.

[cheetah]

 

From what I can see, even from the small scan and the book residing in a CGC holder, is that this book is clearly trimmed on the bottom edge.

 

The bottom of the book looks like it was trimmed off with a pair of scissors...you can see a very crooked edge from the hand trim job (as opposed to the usual, cutting blade trim jobs that are a little more tricky to catch).

 

I was told by some fairly competent people is that Fishler is the best in the hobby for catching restoration so it must be someone else checking the books for resto.

 

 

I don't think Fishler is too hands-on with the business nowadays.

[cheetah]

 

2. They have always been good with returns for me and have been open to giving me a store credit for grading and shipping fees on restored items.

 

 

Jeff

 

I'm sure you spend a lot more than I have at Metro but this was never offered as an option to me. I have no problem with offering customers who spend more with certain perks similar to auction houses offering discounts to sellers with better books. Also as I mentioned, their stated policy states no reimbursement for shipping.grading costs on restored books.

 

Just throwing this out there if someone else runs into the same situation, they shouldn't necessarily expect reimbursement/credit.

 

Of course, if Metro wants to throw some credit my way for my out of pocket costs, I wouldn't be shy about taking it.

 

It wasn't really 'offered' per se.

 

In another FWIW, Metro/CC's accounting system is horrible. Seriously, totally, and terribly horrible. I have ended up keeping a speadsheet of my sales, purchases and returns, along with credits for reholdering (I've sent some back myself) and other things. They cannot look at their books and tell you definitively what is going on. Having a credits requires them to search through your past orders to find it before you can use it.

[telerites]

 

2. They have always been good with returns for me and have been open to giving me a store credit for grading and shipping fees on restored items.

 

 

Jeff

 

I'm sure you spend a lot more than I have at Metro but this was never offered as an option to me. I have no problem with offering customers who spend more with certain perks similar to auction houses offering discounts to sellers with better books. Also as I mentioned, their stated policy states no reimbursement for shipping.grading costs on restored books.

 

Just throwing this out there if someone else runs into the same situation, they shouldn't necessarily expect reimbursement/credit.

 

Of course, if Metro wants to throw some credit my way for my out of pocket costs, I wouldn't be shy about taking it.

 

It wasn't really 'offered' per se.

 

In another FWIW, Metro/CC's accounting system is horrible. Seriously, totally, and terribly horrible. I have ended up keeping a speadsheet of my sales, purchases and returns, along with credits for reholdering (I've sent some back myself) and other things. They cannot look at their books and tell you definitively what is going on. Having a credits requires them to search through your past orders to find it before you can use it.

 

Thanks Jeff.

[AnkurJ]

I think what should be taken into consideration from this thread is this. Metro did make an error, but they did try to correct it. Frankly, I don't feel that any of us are infallible. But we should all be given a chance to correct our mistakes, and I feel the OP should give the same to Metropolis.

 

I have been collecting since 1997. I have had my fair share of run-ins with Metropolis, but things were made right. If you are very overly concerned about a certain book grading with CGC, let me offer you this advice. Buy it slabbed, or don't buy it.

 

Ankur

[southerncross]

I think what should be taken into consideration from this thread is this. Metro did make an error, but they did try to correct it. Frankly, I don't feel that any of us are infallible. But we should all be given a chance to correct our mistakes, and I feel the OP should give the same to Metropolis.

 

I have been collecting since 1997. I have had my fair share of run-ins with Metropolis, but things were made right. If you are very overly concerned about a certain book grading with CGC, let me offer you this advice. Buy it slabbed, or don't buy it.

 

Ankur

 

(thumbs u

[metropoliscomics]

Hope everybody had a wonderful Thanksgiving. I read the posts from the last few days and wow, I feel like my company was thrown into a meat grinder. For those of you with constructive criticism I thank you. I'd like to address the posts as best I can.

To address what started this thread I'd like to explain the situation. Steve had asked Rob to pull all Mile Highs and Rob, thinking that Steve meant pull them off the site did just that. What Steve meant was to physically pull the books. We have a very tight schedule for our auctions because of our catalog print deadlines. Steve wanted to review all the books for CGC grading, CGC reviews, review grades and to see which ones we'd like to put into upcoming auctions in 2014. I wasn't aware of the discrepancy between what Steve asked and Rob did so when I was told that Jeff didn't want to do business with us I wasn't happy to hear it but out of respect for Jeff I told Rob that if that is what Jeff wanted then we should close his accounts. So we didn't simply "terminate" his accounts for no reason. He said he didn't want to do business with us. I would like you all to know that several hours after he told us he didn't want to do business with us he was calling Rob on a book Rob had been diligently working to acquire for Jeff for several months. I am happy to say I believe Rob was able to acquire it. Bottom line is that I think we all get excited and let our emotions get the best of us sometimes. None of us are perfect. I am glad we got everything straightened out. Jeff is a good customer and we appreciate his business.

The thing that saddens me when my company gets lambasted on the forum from time to time is that customers who don't know us must think we are terrible people who treat our customers poorly. I think almost anybody who knows me can you tell you this is the furthest thing from the truth. I love comic books and appreciate the passion our customers have for them. From my days selling dollar comics at local shows, to setting up on the streets of Manhattan's Financial District I have never forgotten once how lucky I am to be doing something I am very passionate about. I do not rest on my laurels and work to improve my business every week

Are we a perfect company? No. Is there always room for improvement? Yes. There always is room for improvement. I strive for 100% customer satisfaction every day (that doesn't mean I will always agree with a customer though, these are two different things). The other thing that is upsetting is that it is very easy to reach out to us if there are issues. The way it comes off in some of the posts is that we are not reachable. It also would appear that from this thread that the problems posted are every day common occurrences. I assure you they are not. Again, can we do a better job? Yes. But someone reading this thread might believe every order we send out is incorrectly graded, all CGC holders get delivered scratched or in a million pieces. Once again this is not true. We deal with thousands of customers on a monthly basis. We get thank you emails and phone calls, and an occasional post here on the boards about how good our grading, pricing, packaging, how fast our shipping is and what an amazing inventory we have. Hardly any of this comes out on the boards and it is sad. I have worked my tail off to build a strong company. Anybody out there who is a business owner can surely understand how I am feeling right now.

Now, I don't want you to think that the constructive criticism expressed on the boards is falling on deaf ears. I know there are places for improvement but I would like to address a few things.

 

 

1. In general finding a credit for a customer is very easy. Also, any consignor to our auctions receives a consignment payment report when a check is cut to them. If anybody has a question about their account they can talk with our financial officer, Tamara Canin, who is a very knowledgeable and helpful part of our team. I am not an accountant, Rob is not an accountant, we don't always have the answers people are asking and that is why we have Tamara. I have not seen a situation where a customer had a question about their account that she couldn't answer to the very last penny.

2. We grade our comics by our interpretation of the Overstreet Grading Guide. CGC doesn't have a published set of standards and as any of you will attest, as good a job as they do, 3 graders in a room all day doing nothing but grading sometimes make a mistake. Our books are normally graded by 1 grader to the best of their ability. We want to convey through our grades and scans what we think the book is so someone will buy it and be happy with it. If someone has a question about the grade of a book, wants a description or wants to know what we think CGC will grade it, we are happy to help. We don't always agree with CGC and if someone is concerned only about what CGC will think we don't want them wasting their time and money buying a book that won't grade at the same level.

3. I believe we have a solid return policy. We do not pay for shipping and handling or CGC fees. We don't try to hide this. It is on our website. Please read our return policy- http://www.metropoliscomics.com/orderinfo.php#returnpolicy

4. Every week I have books pulled from inventory as a form of quality control. I check old and new books alike to make sure grading is solid. It is true that over time books can get damaged in boxes. This happens with every dealer's stock. It is unavoidable. Also, some older books were graded at a time when grading standards were different. Also, get ready for it folks, sometimes we make mistakes. We are only human. We have the largest inventory of vintage comic books on the face of the planet at over 150,000. Is it possible that sometimes we get it wrong? Yes. Again, with all due respect to CGC, they have 3 guys grading every book, that is their only job, and they make mistakes too. I've traveled to thousands of cons over the last 25 years and see under and over-grading by every single dealer's booth I have ever stopped by.

5. In terms of our packing, I have watched my shipping dept pack packages and I believe they are doing a very good job at it. I know we use a ton of cardboard and bubble wrap to pack our packages. I was unaware that books on Jeff's recent orders were getting damaged. I will absolutely look into how and why this is happening If anybody has some feedback please email me at vincentz@metropoliscomics.com

6. The notion that we send out damaged CGC holders on purpose is simply not true. Brian referred to a Green Mask 6 being damaged. Here is the scan http://www.metropoliscomics.com/data/Image/gallery/gre4.69a.jpg. As far as I know this is the way the book looked when it went out.

It is absolutely true that you could receive a box that has no evidence of being damaged and a CGC holder could still be broken. The CGC holders are very fragile and are made that way on purpose. It is fragile so any tampering is immediately evident. While I know we ship CGC books with cracked holders from time to time to have them re-holdered (and have asked customers to be patient until we get them back) I will have a talk with my shipping dept to make sure they are more attentive to this. My team is very attentive to shipping and I can't believe that any one of them would purposefully send a cracked holder out on purpose. CGC holders get scratched very easily. Hearing complaints about scratched holders makes me think I should start a grading company that grades the holders. Now, of course I am joking, but I will also look into ways we can better protect our CGC holders. I do see the bags tearing a bit and we try to replace them but perhaps there is another way. We've tried Hot Flips bags and Mylites too but sometimes it feels like if you look at the holder the wrong way it can get damaged. We will work on it.

7. Stephen Fishler, my partner, has his hands full with 4 children at home but is still very attentive and involved with the businesses. He has been known to enter books into our database into the wee hours of the morning.

8. I'd like to thank all of the bidders in our auctions who had interest in Mile Highs. I can assure you there are many more than just two. These are amazing one of a kind books, they are highly coveted and once they are gone they are very hard to ever get back.

9. Because of how vast our inventory is it is sometimes not until someone brings a book to our attention that has a CALL on it instead of a price that we may decide we'd be better off putting that book into an auction. Instead of being honest we could just put a huge price on it and make it impossible to buy for the inquiring party. Still, I can see how this would upset someone and I will do my best to remedy this situation. I will say this, CALL has lead to many sales for us so I know it works.

10. Steve Carey (sacentaur). I'd like to clear the air with you Steve. Last time we talked I believe was about a dozen years ago when you called to apologize for all the horrible things you had been saying about my partner. It was a very welcome call for me as you and I had never had a single problem in all the years we had known one another. After that call I remember you wanting to buy a book. It was the Planet 3 Larson with notes on the Metropolis label that stated separated Siamese pages. We, on good faith, sent it to you on approval. You didn't like the grade because of the tears and chips from the separated Siamese pages and started making accusations about the only reason we sent it to you on approval was because we knew you'd want to buy it and that was wrong for us to do. We tried to do something good, there was no mal-intent and we didn't quite understand what all the vitriol was about. Anybody who has ever seen separated Siamese pages knows that it is possible (and likely) that there will be jagged edges, chips etc. To make sure you were 100% happy we sent a $6,000 comic to you on approval. There was no game being played here. We asked that if you didn't like the book that you simply send it back. You didn't have to keep it but you did. Since then it has been non-stop bashing Metropolis. Do me a favor I'd really like to put this all behind us, give me a call on Monday 1-800-229-6387 ext 14. Maybe there is something I am missing about what went on with that book but regardless I'd like to talk. I am not saying we need to start doing business or be best pals but I'd like to talk and hopefully move forward. I don’t want to think badly of you when I see you and I'd like for us to be able to say hello and chat at a con like we did years ago. Life is too short.

11. In regards to Mile Highs being trimmed, many were color touched so it is not impossible that someone trimmed a Mile High. I am sorry we missed it, but even more sorry someone did that in the first place. Very sad. In regards to the Junior, all I can say is that we must have missed it. I am glad the other 80+ books Jeff ordered were ok. I am very sorry we missed a trimmed book. We will try to do better.

12. In regards to Artboy99's post, Hello Karl in Canada,

The scan of the Witchcraft 2 shows spine splits on the book. If it got more damaged in transit I am very sorry but it wasn't our intention to deceive you. Sometimes that happens.

http://www.metropoliscomics.com/data/Image/gallery/wit1.90a.jpg

The Startling Terror Tale 11s front cover is gorgeous (looks like a 7.5-8.0) but has some problems with it. I believe that is why it was graded a 6.5. I am not 100% sure if the stain was taken into account when it was graded but it may have been. If you don't like the book please send it back.

http://www.metropoliscomics.com/data/Image/gallery/sta4.79a.jpg

The Menace #9 was listed with color touch (ct spine; ow pgs is the exact description) in the description and on the label itself CT means color touch so it wasn't sold as without mention of restoration.

http://www.metropoliscomics.com/data/Image/gallery/men2.127a.jpg

I reviewed the front scan of the Planet but can't tell what you are referring to. The front cover scan look better than a 6.5 to me (maybe the grader did see the printer creases and that is why he graded it a 6.5) . Several other posters have mentioned the defect you are referring to isn't really a defect though I agree eye appeal is important. I hope you can see that if it is not easily seen in a high resolution scan that maybe one of our graders missed it or took it into account. If you are unhappy with the book please return it.

http://www.metropoliscomics.com/data/Image/gallery/pla1.717a.jpg

You've bought over 40 books from us and had issues with 2 (I will not count the Menace as it was plainly described as having color touch and I will not count the Planet either). Also, I am not sure if you contacted my company about any of your concerns. If you did please email at vincentz@metropoliscomics.com to let me know how they handled the situation. I am sure they told you that you could return the books. If you didn't how could we make the situation right?

 

In closing, it has been a long day. I've been working the whole day grading books and writing this post. I have to be honest, reading through this thread doesn't make me happy. I think some of the comments are fair but I also think some of the things written here are not fair and I realize how poorly my company appears. Anybody reading this should understand that there are thousands upon thousands of very happy customers who love the books they buy from us, raw and CGC alike. If that wasn't the case we'd be out of business. The proof is in the pudding. And if my company was so bad we wouldn't have tripled in size and revenue over the last 5 years. I'd kindly ask you to give us the benefit of the doubt and realize there are 2 sides to every story. I really care about comics, the art form and the vintage comic market. I read comics every week. I do the best I can to promote the market as a great form of entertainment and investment. I am not perfect but I can tell you that my intention is never to stick a customer with a book that will make them unhappy. We believe in long term, positive relationships. We want to be your source for vintage comic books for the next 10, 20, 30 years. If I can be of assistance with anything please feel free to call me 212-260-4147 ext 14 or 800-229-6387 ext 14.

 

Sincerely,

 

Vincent Zurzolo