Upgrading or Downgrading or None

[sfilosa]

For those who collect SA books, are you:

 

1) In an upgrading mode (i.e. buys a nicer copy and sell the a lower grade copy)

2) In a downgrading mode (i.e. sells a nicer copy to keep the lower graded copy, plus gets cash).

3) Neither (i.e. buys the copy that you want and moves on to other issues).

 

Right now, I've been upgrading certain books. I really wish I didn't have that mentality, but because I have a few runs with mostly 9.4 books, I just feel the need to upgrade even the 9.2's (eventhough they are attractive copies).

 

Everyone else?

[Mr. Zipper]

1 and 3

 

I am always looking to upgrade issues that are under a certain condition. The condition varies with age. For early Silver Age I'm usually happy with 6.0 or better. Later Silver Age, 8.0 or better and 9.0 or better for Bronze. Once these grades are achieved, I'll only upgrade if a real deal comes along and I can subsidize most of the purchase by selling my lower grade copy.

 

I try to avoid the constant upgrade mentality, but I am not always sucessful in doing so.

[uclapeterg]

I'm in (1).. I'm trying to upgrade early FF's (14 to 50) with CGC 8.0's or better. I'm also trying to buy 1-13 although I'm not as fantactical about grade there. For example, I have a FF 5 and 12 in CGC 6.5 that I don't plan on getting rid of anytime soon.

[r100comics]

I tend to spend a long time looking for a perfect copy of a particular book, and let a lot of inferior (IMO) copies pass me by. Needless to say, when I finally find a copy I am completely happy with it has a permanent home in my collection.

 

I guess that makes me a No.) 3.

[Silver Surfer]

I find I have been upgrading where I can find a good deal (ie: TTA #98 from a 9.2 to a 9.6) but I have also sold some of my mid-grade SA keys to buy a handfull of 9.4's and mid to high grade GA books instead. The SA keys that I had seem to be plentiful and I can pick them up at any time. This is defintely not the case for some of the GA stuff.

 

I am also trying to buy 9.4's that I will be happy to hold on to for the long-term.

[Drummy]

I actually do neither; I am focused in on 8.5 as my collecting grade. There are many that look nicer in terms of eye appeal (up to 9.4) but it's a grade I can afford given the runs I'm looking to complete (Marvels from 1961-64).

 

So no upgrading. But no downgrading except for major expensive keys, which I'd be happy with 6.5's on.

 

Good luck, Steve!

 

Dan

[fantastic_four]

I'm filling my few remaining (but expensive) Spidey holes, and upgrading my FFs (in addition to filling the holes). I'm also occasionally upgrading my Daredevils and X-Men.

[Aman619]

I just want HG keys, and Im fighting the temptation to upgrade all the commons too. But I hold my wallet if I dont think there is any upside in the price Im offerred.

[jimm94]

In a way, I fit into all three categories depending on the particular title, or even a specific book.

 

1. I recently sold two of my favorite more expensive books with the intent/justification of upgrading them at an unspecified point in the future. While it was nice to get the money to pay for other things, I desparately miss both of them. It's not good to feel that way about a piece of paper.

 

2. I have a Cap 102 in CGC 9.4 that I would be willing to downgrade to 9.0 or 9.2 if the copy had a brigther white cover and better page quality.

 

3. I try to make the best decisions I can when purchasing. For the most part, I strive to be satisfied with what I have so I can move on to other books. This is very hard for me to do with certain comics, and I must continually remind myself that if I keep buying and selling the same issues over and over again, my collection will never grow. At the very least, I won't have an opportunity to own as many different books during my collecting lifetime.

 

My collection is what it is.

[FFB]

For those who collect SA books, are you:

 

1) In an upgrading mode (i.e. buys a nicer copy and sell the a lower grade copy)

2) In a downgrading mode (i.e. sells a nicer copy to keep the lower graded copy, plus gets cash).

3) Neither (i.e. buys the copy that you want and moves on to other issues).

 

Right now, I've been upgrading certain books. I really wish I didn't have that mentality, but because I have a few runs with mostly 9.4 books, I just feel the need to upgrade even the 9.2's (eventhough they are attractive copies).

 

Everyone else?

 

I am more just focusing my efforts right now and getting rid of stuff that isn't in the main areas that I want to collect. My main interests are Spider-Man and FF and I'm shooting for 8.5-9.2 copies in the silver age area, and will go down to 6.0 for the earliest issues provided that they are off white or better PQ, well centered, and little or no pre-chipping. While a tiny Marvel chip does not bother me, I don't go after books with extensive Marvel chipping even if the book is otherwise very high grade. I just think they make the books look trashed.

 

I am not really interested in upgrading once I have a copy in my acceptable grade range, although there are a few particular issues that I am seeking to upgrade even though I already have one or more copies in that grade range. Spidey #86, for example, is one of the books I'm trying to get in 9.4 or 9.6. I've got a couple of slabbed 9.2s (including the Western Penn copy) but I won't stop trying to upgrade until I get a really solid 9.4 or even better, a 9.6. It was one of the first back issue books I ever owned and I'd like a super nice copy of it.

[Aman619]

chipping sucks and is to be avoided...like cream pages. theyre both hard to unload too.

[FFB]

chipping sucks and is to be avoided...like cream pages. theyre both hard to unload too.

 

Tell me about it. Cream to Off White is the kiss of death unless the book is a pedigree, in which case they can move a little more quickly than molasses flows in January.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

chipping sucks and is to be avoided...like cream pages. theyre both hard to unload too.

 

Tell me about it. Cream to Off White is the kiss of death unless the book is a pedigree, in which case they can move a little more quickly than molasses flows in January.

 

You know, I think of all the nonsensical decisions people make when it comes to CGC grades (ex: "50 times Guide for a 9.9? Gotta have it!"), avoiding books because of the Cream to Off-White page designation is among the most foolish. I've recently picked up a couple of Gorgeous books that have CRM/OW pages at well below market prices, and couldn't be more thrilled.

 

As long as the book shows no severe exterior discoloration or toning, I think CRM/OW books are among the best deals around for Silver Age! In fact, I find that CRM/OW books tend to be more strictly graded for some reason. Having personally submitted books from the same OO collection that come back with page quality ranging from CRM/OW to White, I still have no idea how CGC makes the PQ determination, and thus, know that many CRM/OW books could have easily passed for something higher. (Plus there is always the whole "RESUB Roulette" game to play if you're a gambling man).

 

But, no worries, keep avoiding those books fellas...I'll take 'em!

[sfilosa]

You know, I think of all the nonsensical decisions people make when it comes to CGC grades (ex: "50 times Guide for a 9.9? Gotta have it!"), avoiding books because of the Cream to Off-White page designation is among the most foolish. I've recently picked up a couple of Gorgeous books that have CRM/OW pages at well below market prices, and couldn't be more thrilled.

 

I have been one to say that I avoid Cream to Off-White almost all the time. That said, I believe I have three CRM/OW Silver-Age Marvels, and the covers look great (i.e. no hint of tanning). And I have several other Off-White or better books that do have slight discoloration around the edges.

 

There is no question that CR/OW sells for less, but what is not known, is how much should "LESS" be. Should it be 10% or 50%? To me, if you are getting them at 20% or more below normal market value, that seems like that's a really good deal.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

You know, I think of all the nonsensical decisions people make when it comes to CGC grades (ex: "50 times Guide for a 9.9? Gotta have it!"), avoiding books because of the Cream to Off-White page designation is among the most foolish. I've recently picked up a couple of Gorgeous books that have CRM/OW pages at well below market prices, and couldn't be more thrilled.

 

I have been one to say that I avoid Cream to Off-White almost all the time. That said, I believe I have three CRM/OW Silver-Age Marvels, and the covers look great (i.e. no hint of tanning). And I have several other Off-White or better books that do have slight discoloration around the edges.

 

There is no question that CR/OW sells for less, but what is not known, is how much should "LESS" be. Should it be 10% or 50%? To me, if you are getting them at 20% or more below normal market value, that seems like that's a really good deal.

 

This what is often so puzzling to me..many of.the same folks who choose between different CGC 9.4s of the same book until they find the "perfect" one (because, let's face it, not all 9.4s are the same), will often not even consider a book with CRM/OW pages. Why not? If the book displays well, with good gloss, little to no evidence of tanning, and is spot-on for the structural grade, why avoid it like the plague? If the assigned certified grade is called into question enough so that large scans are needed to make a sale, why immediately assume that CGC got the PQ designation right?

 

BTW Steve, your packaged arrived safe and sound. Thanks again!

[sfilosa]

If the assigned certified grade is called into question enough so that large scans are needed to make a sale, why immediately assume that CGC got the PQ designation right?

 

An excellent point.

Of course, unlike actually seeing the scan of the covers of a book (and then being able to make your own judgement), you pretty much have no choice but trust CGC's page quality rating.

 

Glad you liked the book.

[burntboy]

If the assigned certified grade is called into question enough so that large scans are needed to make a sale, why immediately assume that CGC got the PQ designation right?

 

An excellent point.

Of course, unlike actually seeing the scan of the covers of a book (and then being able to make your own judgement), you pretty much have no choice but trust CGC's page quality rating.

 

Glad you liked the book.

 

i'm sure this has been discussed well before i got here, but i don't believe since; is there a process by which page color/quality can be improved?? (ie., some sort of bleaching/whitening process??)

 

for some reason i seem to recall reading about it many years ago but haven't heard it mentioned in the year since i've been here.

 

i'd presume this would be classified as restoration, assuming it was detectable.

 

although i can understand the difficulty with whitening the pages without fading the color..............thoughts??

[Aman619]

Cream pages books are great bargains now. But buying at a bargain price is one thing. When the time comes to sell it (whenever that may be) if attitudes dont change, there will be more price resistance again and your buyer will also get a bargain price...this time from you! And should you need to sell, th emore liquid the better. And many collectors draw the line when it comes to page quality.

 

To me, its just a reality I keep in mind. But personally, unless the book is brown or brittle, I never cared too much about page quality. But then again, I made a lot of mistakes in the bad old days by not being selective enough.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Cream pages books are great bargains now. But buying at a bargain price is one thing. When the time comes to sell it (whenever that may be) if attitudes dont change, there will be more price resistance again and your buyer will also get a bargain price...this time from you! And should you need to sell, th emore liquid the better. And many collectors draw the line when it comes to page quality.

 

To me, its just a reality I keep in mind. But personally, unless the book is brown or brittle, I never cared too much about page quality. But then again, I made a lot of mistakes in the bad old days by not being selective enough.

 

I understand, it is a reality, and I certainly don't mean to put down you OW/W and White page only guys (because I used to be one!), however, there has been a great movement in the last two years in collectors "buying the book and not the label" and this whole page quality thing is an example of the exact opposite.

 

I've seen OW/W paged CGC 9.4s with average gloss and faint discoloration bring premiums, but their CRM/OW cousins (which often times are just as nice) get relegated to second-class citizen status.

[Mr. Zipper]

is there a process by which page color/quality can be improved?? (ie., some sort of bleaching/whitening process??)

 

although i can understand the difficulty with whitening the pages without fading the color..............thoughts??

 

I think a chemical bath will whiten the pages, however, the chemicals themselves may have a more deleterious effect on the paper quality than the creaming itself. It's a case where the medicine is worse than the disease.

 

TTBOMK, page whitening was a tool that restorers used more frequently in the past, and may have included some form of "bleaching." Now, I don't think any type of bleaching is used, and what they do perform is only done on the worst cases of paper degredation.