Tough Signature Series and the New Collector

[DougC]

One of the unknown factors to alot of second hand yellow label buyers are fees for signatures. A lot of people do not ask for payment when signing something at local conventions (or even larger ones), so the idea is that your getting it for free and trying to upsell the product.

 

I had Nicieza sign a number of my books and he was happy to do so, never asking for anything. He didn't want money but appreciated the offer so I ended up buying a considerable number of trades he had at the table. Opposite of this are Lee, Adams, Golden, and many others whos signature fees can be $100 each. A $30 raw book now is at a minimum $170 not even considering grade plus shipping, and a newer collector will likely offer 80ish thinking that is a good offer.

 

I have posted and ranted about the dollar bin drek books that are quite hard to find in 9.8 so I will let that rest

 

 

If you can give me a six to eight weeks (sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less), I can typically get your yellow or blue label 9.8 books that you've been bumping indefinitely in the WTB threads, but only if you can come to terms on the costs involved.

 

If your service extends to silver age adventure comics, I will take you up on your offer good sir..

[lscomics]

Opposite of this are Lee, Adams, Golden, and many others whos signature fees can be $100 each. A $30 raw book now is at a minimum $170 not even considering grade plus shipping, and a newer collector will likely offer 80ish thinking that is a good offer.

I've encountered something along these lines recently. I have this book listed currently and had someone send a message asking what my bottom dollar would be on it and get then get irate that I wouldn't accept his offer of $400 on it. I don't think he realized that you have to take into consideration:

 

1) The value of the book

2) Grading & signature costs

3) The fact that Joe Simon has passed away thereby removing the opportunity to just sub one yourself.

4) That I don't need to sell this book but will for the right price.

 

[Turtle]

I had Nicieza sign a number of my books and he was happy to do so, never asking for anything. He didn't want money but appreciated the offer so I ended up buying a considerable number of trades he had at the table. Opposite of this are Lee, Adams, Golden, and many others whos signature fees can be $100 each. A $30 raw book now is at a minimum $170 not even considering grade plus shipping, and a newer collector will likely offer 80ish thinking that is a good offer.

 

Which comic creators are charging $100 per signature?

[wardevil0]

I had Nicieza sign a number of my books and he was happy to do so, never asking for anything. He didn't want money but appreciated the offer so I ended up buying a considerable number of trades he had at the table. Opposite of this are Lee, Adams, Golden, and many others whos signature fees can be $100 each. A $30 raw book now is at a minimum $170 not even considering grade plus shipping, and a newer collector will likely offer 80ish thinking that is a good offer.

 

Which comic creators are charging $100 per signature?

 

Stan Lee is over $100 to sign; I heard a rumor he was up to $130. After that it's a steep drop-off in fees, but I think Neal Adams is charging $20-30 depending on how many items you have and if it's for CGC. Several others are in the $10-20 range. Some creators have decided that people who CGC are just soulless dealers out to profiteer of other people's strenuous signatures, apparently not realizing that eventually the book will end up in the hands of a fan and their "signing fees" will just be passed on down the line. Some creators won't even sign if they know it's for CGC.

 

That said, I totally understand the desire to limit one customer from showing up with 50 copies of the same comic. Not many fans do that for their own enjoyment. I'm happy to drop some cash in the HERO Initiative or CBLDF bucket if that's the case, and will usually also buy prints directly from artists who sign for me.

[JasonDaTwit]

I had Nicieza sign a number of my books and he was happy to do so, never asking for anything. He didn't want money but appreciated the offer so I ended up buying a considerable number of trades he had at the table. Opposite of this are Lee, Adams, Golden, and many others whos signature fees can be $100 each. A $30 raw book now is at a minimum $170 not even considering grade plus shipping, and a newer collector will likely offer 80ish thinking that is a good offer.

 

Which comic creators are charging $100 per signature?

 

Yeah, who the heck is charging $100 for a sig? That's crazy. I know Neal Adams does $20 a sig unless it's a Wizard Book he drew the cover for, in which case sig price jumps to $30-$40. He did that with the Walking Dead #1 cover he did last summer. Ended up trading both B&W and Full Color Covers (both without sigs) for credit toward qualty key issues at a comic booth. He'll probably do the same with #1 & #2 of MARVEL MAN (Connecting covers too!).

 

Larry Lieber was charging $50 for his sig at that same Wizard World NY show. Jim Steranko charges $5 for a sig but jumps to $20 for CGC sig. Denny O'Neil simply wanted a donation to HEROES INITIATIVE. Most peeps charge between $5-$10 if you are CGCing a book. Some still don't know much about CGC to make a decision as to whether they should charge or not. Neal Adams, be it for yourself or CGC, always charges $20 unless you purchase a print in which case it's "free".

 

The charging of signatures by creators is going to be the norm due to the popularity of the CGC Sig Series. Art reps are hip to it too, so they make sure the big creators they represent (Humberto Ramos, Mike Golden, Mike Zeck) get their cut too. This was rampant in NYCC 2013 and it slightly annoyed me because 1) this was a new thing to be presented with and 2) since this was new, it was not factored in when it came to budgeting for that show. At least I'll be prepared for the next few shows I attend in 2014.

[Rich_Henn]

I don't think he realized that you have to take into consideration:

 

1) The value of the book

2) Grading & signature costs

3) The fact that Joe Simon has passed away thereby removing the opportunity to just sub one yourself.

4) That I don't need to sell this book but will for the right price.

 

 

 

DITTO.

Times infinity.

[Turtle]

Stan Lee is over $100 to sign

 

I'm not sure this is true. Source?

[Paradise_Comics]

Hey Trapezetony those are some nice books! They look a little familiar.

 

Wow. When we began the signature series in 2002, we never dreamed it would become this mainstream and popular. It's been a fun ride!

 

Peter Dixon

Paradise Comics

[TXReplicant]

New Collectors

 

Step 1: Purchase blue label 9.8 off the bay for $30-50 depending on rarity.

Step 2: Monitor comic convention guest lists

Step 3: Send to a third party facilitator, for example, Desert Wind Comics with $70

 

This will work for most books created in the last 30 years or so.

 

I am happy to fork over $120 for a CGC SS 9.8 I really want, but the signature has to be exceptionally difficult (Sam Kieth) for me to pay above that.

 

 

[Jimmy Linguini]

James Van Der Beek is like a $800 signature...

[miraclemet]

I've encountered something along these lines recently. I have this book listed currently and had someone send a message asking what my bottom dollar would be on it and get then get irate that I wouldn't accept his offer of $400 on it. I don't think he realized that you have to take into consideration:

 

1) The value of the book

2) Grading & signature costs

3) The fact that Joe Simon has passed away thereby removing the opportunity to just sub one yourself.

4) That I don't need to sell this book but will for the right price.

 

 

From day one I understood the first three points when I try to figure out an offer on a book.

 

I dont know that we can expect a potential buyer to know a sellers circumstances around the sale listing. Seller could be desperate, seller could have near-nil interest in selling and just has it listed for fishing.

 

But certainly an offer that doesnt factor in 1-3 is silly.

 

 

[JasonDaTwit]

I got infected with "The CGC Bug" when my co-worker introduced me to it. He was getting a Wolverine blank cover commission from Herb Trimpe at a Big Apple Con at the time. As I went to more shows, I started seeing all these blue & yellow encased comics with a numbers on the corner. This brought me back to collecting issues in a big way.

 

My 1st sketch cover was a Ed McGuinness/Dexter Vines Capt. America head sketch on Captain America #1 Blank Cover (Still have it!). My first CGC sigs were 5 old issues in decent condition signed by Stan Lee. Of the 5, only two are currently in my possession. I lost money on the sales of those books too and it provided a few valuable lessons for me:

 

1) Be picky with what you get signed. A Stan Lee sig on a Spidey book doesn't automatically make it a valuable collector's item. Many get Stan's sig on New Mutants #98 even though he had absolutely nothing to do with any of the characters in the book. People just like to see his sig on a key Marvel Title. I don't agree with it but the bids on Ebay don't lie.

 

2) If you intend to CGC a book, make sure it's a high-graded key issue. I mean this more for the modern than the silver or golden age books as those tend to command good figures. Fact is that no one will pay high figure for a key book that's in horrible condition. I look at these Ebay sellers with Amazing Spider-man #300 at 7.5 but want to charge as if its a 9.8. Ain't gonna happen.

 

3) Get sigs from creators most fans don't think about. Carmine Infantino was a great artist but anytime he was at his table at a con, it was empty. I was lucky enough to get some of his books signed before he passed. Stan Lee has tons[/i of signed books in the market. Same cannot be said for Infantino. Rarity of signature helps a book's value go up over time.

 

4) Shop around when it comes to hiring 3rd Party CGC Signature Series Providers. Fact is these businesses are in it to provide you with the signatures you can't get yourself. Some businesses will charge more than others for CGC services. Do your homework by asking about the prices for book processing, autograph charges, etc. Some provide complete breakdowns while others want to know what you want on the book before sharing their pricing.

 

5) Get CGC SS books done yourself. Fact is 3rd Party companies need to charge what they charge to actually make a living out of this. At the same time, their biting into your bottom line. If you can, get books CGCed yourself. I prefer this method myself. I make sure CGC is at a con and then start doing my homework of what to get signed, who is showing up, purchasing books to get signed, etc. Set up a budget (you're not at a con to just get books CGCed after all) and enjoy the show! NYCC 2013 was big and hard to do at times but the signatures I got were so worth it.

 

6) Respect Creators & Prices. This is obvious in my eyes but some people are just dense. These creators are here to meet fans and sell their wares. This CGC thing is a new thing to some and not to others. Neal Adams charges $20. Respect that. It's not like comics provides incentives to be in the business to begin with. It's not like acting where you get a residual check or a percentage of box office receipts. I'm sure Rob Liefeld gets something for all the Deadpool items sold but not everyone creates a Deadpool that allows them to earn some extra income (however big or small it may be). Stan Lee charges $60-80. You may say, "Greedy ". I say, he's 91 years old and still going to cons -- if you want his sig so bad just pay for it and enjoy the fact you got to see Stan sign your book. It's not like he's Stallone who was charging over $400 for a sig (Now that's a greedy !).

 

I'm still learning the ropes of this CGC thing. I'm getting to meet new people who enjoy the hobby as much as I do. Can't beat that!

[Triston Pence]

More yellow label submitters + poor business sense = reduced prices to move product and people wanting books for cost based on poor selling practices (as in lose money just to move product).

It is an epidemic in the modern market with people buying moderns for cover price and reselling for $2 over cover and thinking they are making money...which they truly aren't with product cost and time involved among other factors.

 

In other words, the smart person is not doing 10 of the same creator/book hoping to make money, cause the difference between yellow and blue resale is closing with yellow costing a person 1/3 to twice as much as blue label with no prescreen (which needs to added to the SS program post haste)

 

It is a long game more then ever and most sellers are not in it for anything more then a short sell.

 

By the way, I'm hoped up on NyQuil right now so hoping some of this made sense. I'm sure I will revise it in the morning...

Off to dreamland...

JJ loves you all

 

 

 

Ahhh, a couple of Nyquil tablets & a shot of Jack guarantees 8 hours of bliss

[ChasingKingKirby]

Opposite of this are Lee, Adams, Golden, and many others whos signature fees can be $100 each. A $30 raw book now is at a minimum $170 not even considering grade plus shipping, and a newer collector will likely offer 80ish thinking that is a good offer.

I've encountered something along these lines recently. I have this book listed currently and had someone send a message asking what my bottom dollar would be on it and get then get irate that I wouldn't accept his offer of $400 on it. I don't think he realized that you have to take into consideration:

 

1) The value of the book

2) Grading & signature costs

3) The fact that Joe Simon has passed away thereby removing the opportunity to just sub one yourself.

4) That I don't need to sell this book but will for the right price.

 

 

I have one just like it. (Same grade and same sigs...) And mine isn't for sale at 400 bucks either.

 

For what it's worth, I bought a few SS books from you a year or so ago and I thought youre prices were very fair. :thumbsup:

[djpinkpanther67]

This is a GREAT thread. I really knew nothing of the money, time and effort involved with the SS process. Though it is not my cup of tea, I respect it more than the "scribbling on a perfectly good book" mindset I had previously.

Awesome info guys!

[MedicAR]

Stan Lee is over $100 to sign

 

I'm not sure this is true. Source?

 

I want to say that the deal was signed and CGC'd for $130 plus shipping, but I can't find what made me think that.

[Drakeprimeone]

I had Nicieza sign a number of my books and he was happy to do so, never asking for anything. He didn't want money but appreciated the offer so I ended up buying a considerable number of trades he had at the table. Opposite of this are Lee, Adams, Golden, and many others whos signature fees can be $100 each. A $30 raw book now is at a minimum $170 not even considering grade plus shipping, and a newer collector will likely offer 80ish thinking that is a good offer.

 

Which comic creators are charging $100 per signature?

 

Yeah, who the heck is charging $100 for a sig? That's crazy. I know Neal Adams does $20 a sig unless it's a Wizard Book he drew the cover for, in which case sig price jumps to $30-$40. He did that with the Walking Dead #1 cover he did last summer. Ended up trading both B&W and Full Color Covers (both without sigs) for credit toward qualty key issues at a comic booth. He'll probably do the same with #1 & #2 of MARVEL MAN (Connecting covers too!).

 

Larry Lieber was charging $50 for his sig at that same Wizard World NY show. Jim Steranko charges $5 for a sig but jumps to $20 for CGC sig. Denny O'Neil simply wanted a donation to HEROES INITIATIVE. Most peeps charge between $5-$10 if you are CGCing a book. Some still don't know much about CGC to make a decision as to whether they should charge or not. Neal Adams, be it for yourself or CGC, always charges $20 unless you purchase a print in which case it's "free".

 

The charging of signatures by creators is going to be the norm due to the popularity of the CGC Sig Series. Art reps are hip to it too, so they make sure the big creators they represent (Humberto Ramos, Mike Golden, Mike Zeck) get their cut too. This was rampant in NYCC 2013 and it slightly annoyed me because 1) this was a new thing to be presented with and 2) since this was new, it was not factored in when it came to budgeting for that show. At least I'll be prepared for the next few shows I attend in 2014.

 

Most creators charge reasonable prices if anything at all for their sig. Stan Lee was atleast 85.00 and wouldn't surprise me if it was more. Generally if you are paying this much for a sig, it's usually a celebrity signature. This is a great thread. I love the SS program. Hands down the best way to verify a sig.

1. CGC verifies the condition and grades the book

2. SS verifies the signature / sketch

 

Best guarantee program in the comic book business.

[Ogami]

I've had yellow fever for about twenty-four months now, and it's intensifying!

[MedicAR]

Solid points all through this thread.

 

I don't know that I have anything of substance to add. I've bought comics from pretty much all of the big guns here and generally had a good time doing it. I think most here would agree that if I really want a book, I'll find a way to raise the cash.

 

I don't use GPA, so I don't know anything about it. Does it include CGC SS prices? Assuming that it doesn't, I don't see how anyone could quote it in hopes of getting the price down on a signed copy. A blue label is a book that was found and submitted. Literally anyone can do it. A yellow label means that someone found the book, found an appearance by one or more of the creators, found a facilitator or CGC at the same appearance, paid the fees for the signing, any associated facilitator fees, and had the book graded. In reality, anybody can do it but how many actually do? That's a considerable investment of time, effort, and (likely) capital that is deserving of compensation above and beyond the cost of the book plus submission.

 

Then there are the deceased creators. Whatever books are out there are the only ones out there and some of those guys were not easy to get when they were alive. At the risk of sounding ghoulish, you're going to have to pay a premium.

 

Pricing on CGC SS is totally subjective. There is no easy formula and the market shows this. Stan Lee used to draw a lot more than he currently does, I think this is temporary but books where he actually had a hand in the creation will rise to the top, even the reprints. I think a lot of collectors look down at the reprints right now as some of that "dollar box fodder" but in the long run which would you rather have signed by Stan? Marvel Milestones Fantastic Four #1 or Death's Head Gold #1? I am thrilled to have my DC Millennium Editions and Marvel Milestones signed by various creators and I wouldn't let them go for some of the prices I've seen the original books offered at.

 

I think buyers need to know there is more to CGC SS than there appears to be on the surface. At the same time, sellers need to know that not everyone will value their books as much as they do. If that means a deal can't be reached, so be it. We all have our limits.

[Kevin Boyd]

Happy hunting!

 

I think JJ's request for a pre-screen service on SS books would be a welcome addition to the program, but that's up to the powers that be.