MONDAY'S COMIC ZONE- CGC'S STEVE BOROCK & PAUL LITCH

[Illiterati-migration]

Sorry, but Vinnie posted this thread to announce that Steve was going to be taking questions from callers on-line for everyone to hear, so it's BS that MK tries to call Steve out for not responding to his rhetorical/unanswerable questions when he didn't take the 60 seconds needed to make the call and talk to Steve directly, for everyone to hear nonetheless!!

 

I fail see how the following questions are either rhetorical or unanswerable:

 

Just to be clear, your official stance is that CGC has never granted any customer any sort of special treatment?

 

And could you supply us with examples of the "great ideas" that you have heard from others that have been implemented and have improved your service?

 

I thought those were pretty clear-cut, Banner.

[Michael JC-migration]

Come on, RH, that's a cop out.

 

Well...I don't consider it a cop out but I also believe that the majority of damage books ala: SCS is due to rough mishandling by various parties during the transportation of a book...

 

BTW..I do have a solution for SCS...

 

The inner well needs to be designed in a concave manner..ie: center portion is thicker with a taper going towards the outer edges that is thinner than the book being slabbed...

This way if a book is shaken, dropped or what have you...then the book is naturally wedged without any damage being caused to the entombed book...

 

They have already done that, their called PGA, the company with the holder that doesn't pose a risk to your beloved books.

[Illiterati-migration]

Wow. I think most of your questions are just attempts to get Steve to [/i]say something he shouldn't[/i] and aren't really constructive.

 

Bummer, if only there was some kind of forum or venue where we could call Steve on the phone and ask him these great questions? And wouldn't it be great if everyone else could somehow hear the conversation, like, you know, over the internet! Then we could ask Steve directly about things like, say slab damage and turn-times. Now that would be really great!

 

I don't understand what you're saying here. You know I was talking directly to MK, right?

 

Yes, me too...indirectly!

 

Too indirectly indeed.

[FlyingDonut]

Neither do any of my other slabbed books, ranging in grades from a 1.8 to 9.6. I simply don't see any.

 

Who gives a krap if a 1.8 has slab damage...

 

Well, on my copy of this book I do.

[hobbes]

I was wondering what the book was!

[OldGuy]

Come on, RH, that's a cop out.

 

Well...I don't consider it a cop out but I also believe that the majority of damage books ala: SCS is due to rough mishandling by various parties during the transportation of a book...

 

BTW..I do have a solution for SCS...

 

The inner well needs to be designed in a concave manner..ie: center portion is thicker with a taper going towards the outer edges that is thinner than the book being slabbed...

This way if a book is shaken, dropped or what have you...then the book is naturally wedged without any damage being caused to the entombed book...

 

They have already done that, their called PGA, the company with the holder that doesn't pose a risk to your beloved books.

 

Other then the fact that they encase it in PVC....

[drbanner]

Wow. I think most of your questions are just attempts to get Steve to [/i]say something he shouldn't[/i] and aren't really constructive.

 

Bummer, if only there was some kind of forum or venue where we could call Steve on the phone and ask him these great questions? And wouldn't it be great if everyone else could somehow hear the conversation, like, you know, over the internet! Then we could ask Steve directly about things like, say slab damage and turn-times. Now that would be really great!

 

I don't understand what you're saying here. You know I was talking directly to MK, right?

 

Yes, me too...indirectly!

 

Too indirectly indeed.

 

[Illiterati-migration]

Wow. I think most of your questions are just attempts to get Steve to [/i]say something he shouldn't[/i] and aren't really constructive.

 

Bummer, if only there was some kind of forum or venue where we could call Steve on the phone and ask him these great questions? And wouldn't it be great if everyone else could somehow hear the conversation, like, you know, over the internet! Then we could ask Steve directly about things like, say slab damage and turn-times. Now that would be really great!

 

I don't understand what you're saying here. You know I was talking directly to MK, right?

 

Yes, me too...indirectly!

 

Too indirectly indeed.

 

 

[Darthdiesel]

By all accounts, there is no safe way to ship a slabbed book, in terms of avoiding SCS with certainty. If you're aware of such a method of transport, please share...

 

 

I would disagree from my personal experience. I can vouch for my packing method, used by many others as well in which NO amount of shaking or dropping by the Postal Service/UPS will cause the dreaded SCS. Sandwich the slab with carton cut-outs as you would a raw book. Then secure the book in the box in a way that renders it immobile. pad the sides and edges of the box with bubble wrap or or enough shock absorbent material to absorb any impacts incurred during travelling.

 

I know I deal with mainly moderns and some have said on here that those are the most likely not to suffer from SCS anyway due to different sturdier cover stock and paper materials, less overhang, etc.; but my method which has come through for me 100 percent of the time. I've had no complaints about SCS from the buyers of my slabs and some have even referred to the packing as bombproof. Short of holding both ends of the box and putting your foot through it, I see no way for SCS or any type of impact damage to occur when you render the slab itself immobile in the package.

[drbanner]

By all accounts, there is no safe way to ship a slabbed book, in terms of avoiding SCS with certainty. If you're aware of such a method of transport, please share...

 

 

I would disagree from my personal experience. I can vouch for my packing method, used by many others as well in which NO amount of shaking or dropping by the Postal Service/UPS will cause the dreaded SCS. Sandwich the slab with carton cut-outs as you would a raw book. Then secure the book in the box in a way that renders it immobile. pad the sides and edges of the box with bubble wrap or or enough shock absorbent material to absorb any impacts incurred during travelling.

 

I know I deal with mainly moderns and some have said on here that those are the most likely not to suffer from SCS anyway due to different sturdier cover stock and paper materials, less overhang, etc.; but my method which has come through for me 100 percent of the time. I've had no complaints about SCS from the buyers of my slabs and some have even referred to the packing as bombproof. Short of holding both ends of the box and putting your foot through it, I see no way for SCS or any type of impact damage to occur when you render the slab itself immobile in the package .

 

The problem is that the book itself is not immobile within the slab/inner well. My last batch of books came in with noticably more wedges which would reduce the "wiggle room" the book has within the well, but at some point you're going to get as close as you can without actually squeezing the book. I really don't think you're going to get away from the potential for damage (slabbed or not) when packing books up and sending them all over the country/world via 3rd party carriers (UPS, USPS, etc.,.), but you can certainly minimize the potential for damage by using the wedges and by packing the books securely as you describe.

[DiceX]

Put me in the category of having at least 125-150 graded books pass through my collection and none with slab damage.

I have seen one book with my own eyes that I believe had a curled corner from slab damage.

Other than that book, nada.

I'm not saying it can't happen. Just that it's never happened to me.

 

But do you care? When the "clean, press and resubmit" trend was at its peak (in terms of discussion on these boards), there were quite a number of posters who took the attitude, "well, I don't collect GA or SA books, so the clean/press/resub problem doesn't apply to me."

 

When people complain about slow turnaround times, there's always some yahoo ready to say "well, if you only collected 'economy-class' books, you'd be home by now!"

 

Now we have a problem - SCS that seems to be affecting BA and MA books far more than other 'ages'. And we still have people saying "I don't own any books with SCS damage, so it can't be a big deal, at least not for me."

 

Not trying to put words in your mouth....but wondering if many board regulars only care about a given CGC issue/policy when it applies directly to them.

 

Because you never know - the next major point of contention might land in your backyard...

 

I didn't say "I don't care".

I said it's never happened to me.

You sure read a lot into my post.

[Darthdiesel]

"The problem is that the book itself is not immobile within the slab/inner well"

 

Like I said, maybe my experience is limited because of my modern collecting but my books do not slide on their own in the slab, even weh n I rotate the slab in a 360 degree manner. In order for me to move the book at all, I would have to slam it down real fast and then reverse the momentum; sort of a jerking motion...ummm.. - even sothe books I have do not have much, if any, overhang so the sides of the pages meet the inner well edge b4 any harm can come to the corners or thinner cover edges.

[nearmint]

I see no way for SCS or any type of impact damage to occur when you render the slab itself immobile in the package.

 

But what if the book isn't immobilized within the slab?

[garthgantu]

Sorry, but Vinnie posted this thread to announce that Steve was going to be taking questions from callers on-line for everyone to hear, so it's BS that MK tries to call Steve out for not responding to his rhetorical/unanswerable questions when he didn't take the 60 seconds needed to make the call and talk to Steve directly, for everyone to hear nonetheless!! And who needs dictation when the show is archived and anyone call pull it up today and listen?

I don't think it's BS to ask pointedly for a serious answer after failing to get such an answer in previous attempts.

As for the show, as I understand it Scott asked about SCS and the answer given was pretty much lip-service, whether it was followed by laughter or not. If you are suggesting that we simply take Steve's on-air response as the final word on SCS, it sounds as though it's not a particularly high priority for CGC, and CGC believes that the frequency of SCS is roughly .002%. I suspect Scott and some other board regulars would dispute this estimate.

Regardless, if you think that calling into a radio show is somehow guaranteed to yield candid, forthright responses from those fielding the questions, you are mistaken. It's quite easy to screen the callers and get only the questions you want to answer, and/or brush off any questionable or 'sensitive' issues that might be presented by callers.

 

Now, this is different from what your situation was last year(?) where you just kept hammering and hammering away while other, more constructive posters (like BB-13) simply called CGC's 800 number and asked to talk to Steve. I'm glad you attended the Wonder Con dinner and gave SB the 3rd degree (although I don't believe you ever did provide us with the "meeting minutes" I PM'ed you about concerning "the questions that have to be asked", last I heard you had sent your responses to Steve for his approval or something), but here you are asking the same questions over and over and harping on CGC over and over on the same issues, you're like a broken record.

Here's what happened at the WonderCon dinner: I asked those "questions that have to be asked" and rec'd answers to some of them (which I posted to the boards after calling Steve B. to double-check the answers he provided in person, and make sure I wasn't misquoting him). Others of the questions - the ones you later told me were the truly significant (or perhaps just difficult?) questions - weren't addressed, though I'll be the first to note that Steve was inundated with questions, it was a social setting, people were drinking, etc. You then pointed out that I hadn't served up answers to all the "tough questions" I'd promised to ask at the dinner, so I sent Steve another email, thanking him for the copy of Preacher he'd sent me and asking if he would please field the additional questions. He never responded.

 

Just like your "proposal" to scan every comic book that comes CGC's way and run it against a database of all previously graded comics to search for pressed resubmits, the proposals above are not practical ($$ and time). In addition, as OldGuy points out above, there are some questions that can't/shouldn't be answered, similar to the old joke from middle school - "Does your mom know you're gay/dumb/weak/etc?"

 

If the suggestions for somehow assisting Steve B's presence on these boards didn't appeal to you, I'm sorry. I just don't think it's realistic to tell everyone "hey, CALL Steve B. and speak to him directly, get your questions answered and bring those questions to the boards." This seems to fly in the face of the very reason for having such boards. If Steve B. doesn't have the time or typing acumen to field such questions, I certainly understand. But that doesn't invalidate the questions.

 

And BTW, I'm not a paid consultant to CGC, so my ideas don't have to survive on their own merits - they're simply ideas, and if they lead to other, more practical ideas, that's fine by me. I still think the idea of a database of covers would work and could be cost-effective, but I have an outsider's view of things in this respect and I could easily be wrong. I appreciate your explaining to me what is and isn't feasible for CGC, since CGC doesn't always do so itself.

 

And I for one am not really all that surprised that our comments and suggestions - as in the SCS situation - occasionally fall on deaf ears; when I asked Steve B. what sort of weight CGC placed on the information provided by board posters, he said "3 percent." So I expect that in ~97% of cases, our opinions are not taken into consideration.

[garthgantu]

I didn't say "I don't care".

I said it's never happened to me.

You sure read a lot into my post.

 

I didn't SAY you didn't care, I asked if you cared.

 

I then went on to (attempt to) make a point about some of the issues that have arisen around CGC and its services/policies, and the striking fact that such instances generally seem to divide us as a group, rather than uniting us.

 

I think my post could have been worded more effectively, and for that I apologize - I wasn't trying to single you out.

 

But I'm still interested in the original question - do you care that examples of SCS seem to be cropping up at an increasing rate? Or do you even believe this to be the case? I think there are many on these boards that likely won't believe it until it happens to them personally, no matter how many scans they see of other poster's slabs.

[FFB]

Sorry, but Vinnie posted this thread to announce that Steve was going to be taking questions from callers on-line for everyone to hear, so it's BS that MK tries to call Steve out for not responding to his rhetorical/unanswerable questions when he didn't take the 60 seconds needed to make the call and talk to Steve directly, for everyone to hear nonetheless!! And who needs dictation when the show is archived and anyone call pull it up today and listen?

I don't think it's BS to ask pointedly for a serious answer after failing to get such an answer in previous attempts.

As for the show, as I understand it Scott asked about SCS and the answer given was pretty much lip-service, whether it was followed by laughter or not. If you are suggesting that we simply take Steve's on-air response as the final word on SCS, it sounds as though it's not a particularly high priority for CGC, and CGC believes that the frequency of SCS is roughly .002%. I suspect Scott and some other board regulars would dispute this estimate.

Regardless, if you think that calling into a radio show is somehow guaranteed to yield candid, forthright responses from those fielding the questions, you are mistaken. It's quite easy to screen the callers and get only the questions you want to answer, and/or brush off any questionable or 'sensitive' issues that might be presented by callers.

 

It was Brian (Foolkiller) who called in with the question about slab damage, not me. You should listen to the interview and see if you agree that it was dealt with in a somewhat dimissive and borderline flippant way.

 

http://www.worldtalkradio.com/archives.asp?sid=68

[drbanner]

As for the show, as I understand it Scott asked about SCS and the answer given was pretty much lip-service, whether it was followed by laughter or not. If you are suggesting that we simply take Steve's on-air response as the final word on SCS, it sounds as though it's not a particularly high priority for CGC, and CGC believes that the frequency of SCS is roughly .002%.

 

Regardless, if you think that calling into a radio show is somehow guaranteed to yield candid, forthright responses from those fielding the questions, you are mistaken. It's quite easy to screen the callers and get only the questions you want to answer, and/or brush off any questionable or 'sensitive' issues that might be presented by callers.

 

"...quite easy to screen the callers ..."? Now you're moving into Oliver Stone territory! If they were screening callers, do you really believe SCS and slow turn-times would have come up at all?

 

I listened to the show, and Scott (I assume you're referring to FFB) did not call. Brian (foolkiller) called and asked the question about slab damage. I suggest you pull up the archives and listen to what Steve actually said rather than taking someone else's word for it and extrapolating that to the findings that suit your position ("...lip service...0.002%...screening the callers...")

 

If the suggestions for somehow assisting Steve B's presence on these boards didn't appeal to you, I'm sorry. I just don't think it's realistic to tell everyone "hey, CALL Steve B. and speak to him directly, get your questions answered and bring those questions to the boards." This seems to fly in the face of the very reason for having such boards. If Steve B. doesn't have the time or typing acumen to field such questions, I certainly understand. But that doesn't invalidate the questions.

 

Steve himself has repeatedly suggested that people call him with their concerns in lieu of posting comments on the boards...I'm not the one that came up with the idea!!

 

Obviously Steve, et al read these boards and can take positive/constructive comments and criticisms and act on them. Unfortunately, not all comments and questions forwarded here fit this category.

[garthgantu]

I'm planning to listen to it as soon as is convenient, but it's a little tough at work

 

Roughly how far into the hour does the question arise?

[FFB]

I'm planning to listen to it as soon as is convenient, but it's a little tough at work

 

Roughly how far into the hour does the question arise?

 

I think it's in segment 3. It's near the end of the interview.

 

***edit***

 

It starts in segment 2 and continues into segment 3. Just to be clear, the problem I had with it wasn't just that Steve was minimizing it. It was that Steve AND Vincent minimized it and made it sound like it almost never happens, and when it does, it is only as a result of the UPS or FedEx guy throwing a box around like a frisbee. The discussion started out ok (though I think Steve was being a little disingenuous about how safe the book is within the slab), but at the end, the impression I would have gotten (if I didn't already know better) was that if you have a book with slab damage, it is a freak occurrence along the lines of probability of being abducted by aliens.

[OldGuy]

Steve himself has repeatedly suggested that people call him with their concerns in lieu of posting comments on the boards...I'm not the one that came up with the idea!!

 

I only ever felt the need to call once. A nice lady answered the phone. I told her my name and asked to talk to Steve. I was on hold for about 30 seconds before Steve picked up the phone. We had a very nice conversation. He was very helpful and answered my questions to my satisfaction.

 

I highly recommend that if anyone has questions you call Steve............... unless you don't really want answerers to your questions...............