Is pressing restoration?

[OldGuy]

I find it funny that more people think that pressing isn't resto then do, but more people want pressing disclosed then don't.

 

Absolutely....maybe one has to do with selling and the other has to do with buying?

 

Finally, someone that "gets" me.

[sfilosa]

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Not too long ago, I believe BMW lost a large lawsuit for taking dents out of newly shipped cars without disclosing this to potential customers.

 

 

 

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Which would be the equivalent of color touching a book.

 

Poor analogy.

 

 

I personnally think my analogy is exactly why PRESSING isn't RESTORATION.

 

Which is, a corner gets FOLDED BACK. You take your finger and unfold the corner, therefore RESTORING the book to it's original condition (or as close to as possible). Anyone really call this RESTORATION.

 

The INTENT was to IMPROVE the BOOK.

 

 

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Actually, color touching a car would be equivalent to color touching a book. Removing a dent is not adding anything so that would equate to pressing and meets the definition of restoring to the original state.

 

I personnally think my analogy is exactly why PRESSING is RESTORATION.

 

Actually, the BMW lawsuit was because they had to repaint where the dent was. Also, the person originally won $2,000, 000 (as he sued for every car he believed they did this to), but eventually after all appeals, got (I believe) $4,000 (which is how much the COLOR TOUCH devalued the car).

 

If you can take out a dent on a car without putting a hole through it or touching it up, I seriously doubt that anyone could tell.

[blowout]

It does not matter what your interpretation of restoration may be - all work performed should be disclosed.

 

Thats it exactly. All this talk about restoration is just fudging the issue.

[Tango 'n Cash]

Actually, color touching a car would be equivalent to color touching a book. Removing a dent is not adding anything so that would equate to pressing and meets the definition of restoring to the original state.

 

Very logical.

[Dr_Neff]

removing a dent is restoration - ever heard of bondo?

 

pressing a book is not restoration, you are not adding anything

 

example:

 

A: your book is at the bottom of a stack for 30 years - completely flattened by the books above, not to the point of staple pull or pop, but real crisp.

 

B: Your book is placed under some Stephen King books for a couple months - completely flattend, not to the point of staple pull or pop, but real crisp.

 

 

C: your book is placed between real heavy metal and pushed down on, not to the point of staple pull or pop, but real crisp.

 

Which book would be restored in this situation, true believers?

 

Answer - none of the above. Just because you pay $55.00-$145.00 an hour to have it pressed doesn't make it restored either.

[blowout]

pressing a book is not restoration, you are not adding anything

 

Since when did restoration require something to be added? For me, it is the process of intentionaly reinstating a comic to its 'as published' condition. Something does not neccessarily have to be added for this to occur.

[Tango 'n Cash]

Since when did restoration require something to be added?

 

Since CGC stated that they do not feel pressing is restoration and their supporters quickly fell in line.

[Tango 'n Cash]

removing a dent is restoration - ever heard of bondo?

 

What does this mean? A guy clipped the back of my car with his mirror one time, and although the damage was minute, the dent was fixed (amazingly, no bondo was needed) and was part of the car's permanent record. And yes, there was no bondo!

 

You can't just pretend it never happened, and state that the car had no repair or resto.

[comicwiz]

Not too long ago, I believe BMW lost a large lawsuit for taking dents out of newly shipped cars without disclosing this to potential customers.

 

Which would be the equivalent of color touching a book.

 

Poor analogy.

 

 

I personnally think my analogy is exactly why PRESSING isn't RESTORATION.

 

Which is, a corner gets FOLDED BACK. You take your finger and unfold the corner, therefore RESTORING the book to it's original condition (or as close to as possible). Anyone really call this RESTORATION.

 

The INTENT was to IMPROVE the BOOK.

 

Perhaps not in the context of the BMW lawsuit, but the dent out of a car is actually a much better analogy than unfolding a corner on a comic book.

 

Generally, if a comic exhibits a fold that has been dogeared, the fold will VERY LIKELY exhibit colour breaking creasing. I have never seen a fold that has extended entirely to flipside into the interior of the cover without leaving a colour breaking crease. In the unlikely event that colour breaking crease is not evident, there will be dent signs from the fold. Basically, in a roundabout way, no matter how gently, or creatively one can get to fold that back, if the person buying or viewing the book has half decent grading skills, they will note that defect, and downgrade appropriately. This is not something that is possible with NDP pressing because of its transparent corrective method.

 

Follow me so far?

 

With regard to the example of a dent in a car, there are experts (one of my best friends namely) who can tap out a dent in a car. Although the vintage and antique vehicle market are his mainstay, and highest payoff work assignments, he has done this type of work for some large vehicle manufacturers. I have seen examples of his work, and experts would not ever be able to tell that a dent was anywhere on the car after he has performed work on it. The confidentiality agreements he has with each company prevents him from disclosing the nature of his work, but after a few beers, he can't keep a secret if you locked him in a sound-proof safe. I know for a fact that he has removed dents from thousands of vehicles, without having to add anything to the cars (ie. paint).

 

How this ties into the NDP pressing issue is that when he decides to take on an assignment, there is no possibility that the dents will revert. His expertise in metals affords him the ability to be able to correct work in a permanent corrective manner. In fact, he has refused work on certain vehicles because the metal used is just not conducive to the type of service he performs. However, in such cases, if the customer is adamant about him performing the work regardless of the problems associated to the metal, he will refer them to a body shop. In other words, if his analysis reveals that his services will not provided permanent corrective results, or if he has to add anything to the vehicle to perform the work, he just won't do it. Too bad this is not the case with prescreeners doing NDP pressing on comics.

[PovertyRow]

pressing a book is not restoration, you are not adding anything

 

Since when did restoration require something to be added? For me, it is the process of intentionaly reinstating a comic to its 'as published' condition. Something does not neccessarily have to be added for this to occur.

 

I know. I hear this definition from time to time and would love to know how it was arrived at. So dismantling a book and cleaning the staples is not restoration, I guess. Spine roll removal is not restoration either.

[DoubleCovaBrotha]

Not too long ago, I believe BMW lost a large lawsuit for taking dents out of newly shipped cars without disclosing this to potential customers.

 

Which would be the equivalent of color touching a book.

 

Poor analogy.

 

 

I personnally think my analogy is exactly why PRESSING isn't RESTORATION.

 

Which is, a corner gets FOLDED BACK. You take your finger and unfold the corner, therefore RESTORING the book to it's original condition (or as close to as possible). Anyone really call this RESTORATION.

 

The INTENT was to IMPROVE the BOOK.

 

Personally, the point of intent is the basis of categorizing pressing as restoration. Pressing is basically one of those things that can happen intentionally or unintentionally. If it is intentional, then I believe that pressing is indeed restoration as it is a conscious effort to change the appearance or characteristics of the book that were not otherwise present. If a book was merely packed very well underneath a lot of other books, then the book has indeed been pressed, but not intentionally restored.

 

Unless I start believing that restoration can be unintentional, I will hold this contention to my very last breath...or held to gunpoint.

[colmoreman]

I think that a lot of the comments on pressing here and on other threads miss a very important point! CGC say that they cannot detect pressing!

 

I have had a candid discussion with Steve Borock about this and he (as always) is being totally honest about this. Therefore, there can be no question of pressing being noted either on the label or appearing in the graders' notes.

 

This then leads onto the question as to what all the comments made on the boards about pressing wish to achieve. It seems to me that either someone is unearthed with the ability to detect pressing or it will always remain a non-argument!

[Aman619]

the comments serve to go on record and being AGAINST the new direction CGCs hijacking of the hobby has taken it. Just because CGC (which is all of 5 years young) believes pressing is not resto means what exactly? That it will forever affect their grades and resto detection efforts. And therefore, the rest of us who do not agree will make our hobby decisions accordingly.

 

Will CGC ALWAYS have the final word on this?

 

I dont think so.

[jimjum12]

In a perfect world,pressing should either be noted on the holder(like interior tears or tape),or the book should be given a qualified grade.The market could then determine the true value of the book,based on the facts.When Steve says that they cannot detect pressing, I would be willing to bet that he means they can't detect it consistently enough to stand behind that type of service.I could understand that,as I would think pressing would be hard to identify on late silver onward due to increased quality in the printing standards.I certainly don't envy his position at the center of this dilema.GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[esquirecomics]

I think that a lot of the comments on pressing here and on other threads miss a very important point! CGC say that they cannot detect pressing!

 

I have had a candid discussion with Steve Borock about this and he (as always) is being totally honest about this. Therefore, there can be no question of pressing being noted either on the label or appearing in the graders' notes.

 

This then leads onto the question as to what all the comments made on the boards about pressing wish to achieve. It seems to me that either someone is unearthed with the ability to detect pressing or it will always remain a non-argument!

 

With all due respect, that is simply not true. They cannot detect pressing 100% of the time. No one disputes that.

 

However, they can detect pressing when:

 

(1) Chris Freissen at PCS presses the book just down the hallway; and

 

(2) When a pedigree, or otherwise known, book is resubmitted for a better grade and it jumps from, for example, a 5.0 to a 9.0.

 

They do not want to identify pressing b/c it conflicts with their business model. Plain and simple. It is a question of money, not policy.

[Aman619]

and CGC has stated that their stance on pressing has nothing to do with their ability to detect it 100% of the time. They state unequivocably that NDpressing is NOT restoration nor conservation. Even if each book that was pressed came with a note attached, they wouldnt care.

[topofthetotem]

They say that pressing can be detected, but not distinguished between

 

a) a good pressing job by a professional or by

 

b) the books being stacked for years. Like the church books.

 

So that's why pressing is not restro!

plus they can literally make a $1000.00 per hour grading the same High value book.

[Aman619]

no. reread CGC statements. Its a common misconception that CGcs ability or lack of CAUSED the stance on pressing. But they have stated clearly that they DO NOT CONSIDER non-disassembly pressing to be a form of restoration. Boggles the mind because it is WRONG... but it is NOT because they cant spot it 100% of the time as we (all) originally thought.

 

Frankly, Id prefer that CGC GUESS (!) AT IT like they still do with trimming and suffer a few missed calls in return for a definite CGC stance AGAINST pressing as being a restoration technique to inprove appearance. If they guessed wrong, at least we could send it back for a second try. The way it is now, it makes economic sense to get books improved by pressing, which still is mind-boggling to me.

 

But the pendulum will swing back. CGC will not be the final arbiter (sp?) on the issue forever.

[blowout]

 

With all due respect, that is simply not true. They cannot detect pressing 100% of the time. No one disputes that.

 

However, they can detect pressing when:

 

(1) Chris Freissen at PCS presses the book just down the hallway; and

 

(2) When a pedigree, or otherwise known, book is resubmitted for a better grade and it jumps from, for example, a 5.0 to a 9.0.

 

They do not want to identify pressing b/c it conflicts with their business model. Plain and simple. It is a question of money, not policy.

 

Tell it like it is!

[topofthetotem]

For those that submit books for grading I'll pose a question

 

Would you send your books to a diffrent grading company if they listed items like pressing the on lable? Myself I would! but I would also have no problem with a pressed book that was priced right!

 

I think CGC does themselves a disservice with the flip flop on pressing for few short term $$