Ive lost ALL confidence in CGC - UPDATE on page 221 2 2

[LordRahl]

The buyer is a boardie. Why is he not on here speaking for himself? What was and was not said between him and CGC would be a lot more credible coming from him then it is coming secondhand from Dan.

[mschmidt]

But, while CGC has done right to rectify THIS book, and in that I mean, literally all they can do. What they havent done, is address any of the ISSUES which the situation has raised.

 

I'd like to seem them address the issues involved, and though I am HIGHLY SKEPTICAL, wonder if they realize they cannot indefinitely use ambiguity and obfuscation to bludgeon their customers.

 

Opening up for more transparency is coming, dont know when, and dont know how, but it will eventually come. As in all things in life, it likely wont be adopted until its forced upon them, and at much greater cost/consequence, then if smart actions were taken earlier.

 

Ok, I'll bite. What, exactly, are the other issues that have been raised here?

 

CGC made a mistake and graded a trimmed book as unrestored. They don't claim to be infallible and I'm sure this won't be the last time they screw up. What matters (to me, at least) is how they act when mistakes like this are brought to their attention and as far as I can tell, they're doing exactly what people wanted them to - admit they made a mistake & try to make the submitter whole.

 

Apart from Kav's nonsense ramblings, what am I missing here?

 

The book was graded 3 times (of course I don't know if it was ever graded before I got it) It came back Blue twice and Purple once. Shouldn't the assumption be it's Blue??

 

All restored books were unrestored at some point - why is this any different? Because CGC screwed up on both the initial submission and this latest one?

 

It's fairly common knowledge that CGC's resto detection has gotten better over the years - I think it's much more likely that this was a restored book sitting in a blue label slab than the other way around.

[MagnetoWasRight]

But, while CGC has done right to rectify THIS book, and in that I mean, literally all they can do. What they havent done, is address any of the ISSUES which the situation has raised.

 

I'd like to seem them address the issues involved, and though I am HIGHLY SKEPTICAL, wonder if they realize they cannot indefinitely use ambiguity and obfuscation to bludgeon their customers.

 

Opening up for more transparency is coming, dont know when, and dont know how, but it will eventually come. As in all things in life, it likely wont be adopted until its forced upon them, and at much greater cost/consequence, then if smart actions were taken earlier.

 

Ok, I'll bite. What, exactly, are the other issues that have been raised here?

 

CGC made a mistake and graded a trimmed book as unrestored. They don't claim to be infallible and I'm sure this won't be the last time they screw up. What matters (to me, at least) is how they act when mistakes like this are brought to their attention and as far as I can tell, they're doing exactly what people wanted them to - admit they made a mistake & try to make the submitter whole.

 

Apart from Kav's nonsense ramblings, what am I missing here?

 

The book was graded 3 times (of course I don't know if it was ever graded before I got it) It came back Blue twice and Purple once. Shouldn't the assumption be it's Blue??

 

That's not the point...the point is making it disappear and go on pretending it didn't happen. Addressing the issue is being swept under the rug. I get it, CGC isn't perfect...but we spend a ton of cash and put a lot of trust in these people...their accuracy is THE most important part of the product they sell. This is a very big deal and puts every graded book into question. This isn't the first time something like this has happened...it has happened to me and many others...CGC can't move forward until they fully address the trimming detection issue. Removing the book from circulation, trimmed or not, does nothing to address it.

[CBT]

Ok, I'll bite. What, exactly, are the other issues that have been raised here?

 

CGC made a mistake and graded a trimmed book as unrestored. They don't claim to be infallible and I'm sure this won't be the last time they screw up. What matters (to me, at least) is how they act when mistakes like this are brought to their attention and as far as I can tell, they're doing exactly what people wanted them to - admit they made a mistake & try to make the submitter whole.

 

Apart from Kav's nonsense ramblings, what am I missing here?

at the last sentence

 

Now, I know we have our past together, where I claimed that you were a mod. For the record, I still think you are one, or extremely tightly associated with many who are. I know you are in the inner circle, just putting that out there before i respond...

 

I can't really go back and quote it all, but if I had to do a summary:

 

1.) What was said to him on the phone is unacceptable, even if true, which is exceedingly unlikely (the "everyone looked at it"nonsense). CGC didnt admit they made a mistake (either on it being trimmed, or it being not), and forced Dan to eat the book. Its just one of many examples where the use the fact that they have 0 accountability, to impose their will upon people, that really have no alternative.

 

2.) They need to have full transparency, or eventually many of the practices will catch up to them. They choose not to because transparency brings with it a whole host of problems and headaches. However, in the long run, real competition will force it upon them.

 

3.) Their grading standards and grading notes need to be public. Charge for the notes if you must, but they need to be detailed, REAL, and fully accessible. The grading standards need to be published, free and available.

They need to pony up and pay enough money to hire enough graders, to remove all delays, be able to have real standards that are public, and deal properly and effectively with mistakes when they occur. (re-grading, as a policy, and practice)

 

4.) They need to hire actual proper software engineers and make real tools, a proper website, a much better version of their registry and census, and a better forum. They also need to pay some people to be real and public mods, not alts hiding, and they need to have proper public rules for moderation, and enforce them universally and without nepotism.

 

Everything that CGC does, and all their ways of handling things, screams unprofessional. They may be really good at grading, and making money, but they are terrible as a corporation, for over-site, for transparency, good governance, and a long-term perspective.

 

That's why I called them, "a bunch of guys, renting a bigger garage in a commercial area", in reference to the "PGX is a guy in a garage" joke.

 

I know that lots of these people are your friends, and I am not trying to attack them. I genuinely believe in the next 5-7 years they are going to get hit hard by serious competition if they dont smarten up, across the board.

Edited April 1, 2014 by CBT

[Spider-Dan]

The buyer is a boardie. Why is he not on here speaking for himself? What was and was not said between him and CGC would be a lot more credible coming from him then it is coming secondhand from Dan.

 

I agree

[Harley Troy]

How do we know any book in a purple slab is actually restored? Because CGC says so. If you don't trust their expertise on this matter, don't use their service.

 

 

 

[MrBedrock]

And I don't think your stupidity is an act...

I trust your judgment. You would certainly be the local stupidity expert.

[THE_BEYONDER]

It's fairly common knowledge that CGC's resto detection has gotten better over the years - I think it's much more likely that this was a restored book sitting in a blue label slab than the other way around.

 

Common knowledge.....or common misconception?

 

 

[MagnetoWasRight]

How do we know any book in a purple slab is actually restored? Because CGC says so. If you don't trust their expertise on this matter, don't use their service.

 

 

 

+1

[Bill1]

Good enough for me! I am getting my next submission ready as we speak!

[LordRahl]

It's fairly common knowledge that CGC's resto detection has gotten better over the years - I think it's much more likely that this was a restored book sitting in a blue label slab than the other way around.

 

Common knowledge.....or common misconception?

 

 

Common sense? The more one practices something, generally speaking, the better one gets at whatever that is.

[kav]

How do we know any book in a purple slab is actually restored? Because CGC says so. If you don't trust their expertise on this matter, don't use their service.

 

 

I don't use their service. And when they determine a book is restored they look at it first. If they've looked at it several times and come to different conclusions why do you accept their final statement, when they haven't re examined it-conclusive???

Nonsense, I know....

[THE_BEYONDER]

It's fairly common knowledge that CGC's resto detection has gotten better over the years - I think it's much more likely that this was a restored book sitting in a blue label slab than the other way around.

 

Common knowledge.....or common misconception?

 

 

Common sense? The more one practices something, generally speaking, the better one gets at whatever that is.

 

If you're missing trimming....you have no idea you're missing trimming.

[mschmidt]

It's fairly common knowledge that CGC's resto detection has gotten better over the years - I think it's much more likely that this was a restored book sitting in a blue label slab than the other way around.

 

Common knowledge.....or common misconception?

 

 

As far as I know this isn't the first time where an old blue label book turned purple upon resubmission. Isn't it fairly safe to say that Ewert wouldn't be able to push his micro-trimmed books through CGC these days?

[kav]

And I don't think your stupidity is an act...

I trust your judgment. You would certainly be the local stupidity expert.

BAZINGA

[shadroch]

I have a serious question for everyone.

 

Suppose a legitimate competitor pops up tomorrow. Someone the hobby believes in with real backing.

 

Will those here pay more for books in those holders?

 

Will you frequent the sites that carry them primarily?

 

Will you immediately send your books in for grading at the new service?

 

What if your books will sell for less in a new company's holder?

 

What if the transparency were no greater at the new company?

 

Would people be willing to sell their books for less short term to help support the credibility of the new company?

 

Curious to hear people's responses

 

Would depend who is behind the new venture.

 

 

As oppossed to the people that are behind CGC? how many years did it take to find out who owned them?

[Spider-Dan]

It's fairly common knowledge that CGC's resto detection has gotten better over the years - I think it's much more likely that this was a restored book sitting in a blue label slab than the other way around.

 

Common knowledge.....or common misconception?

 

 

Common sense? The more one practices something, generally speaking, the better one gets at whatever that is.

 

That was the conclusion when it ended up in a purple label last time. Its because CGC has gotten so much better at detecting resto over the years. OK, I can buy that

 

1 month later.... POOF its in a Blue slab

 

That's all im sayin

[kav]

It's fairly common knowledge that CGC's resto detection has gotten better over the years - I think it's much more likely that this was a restored book sitting in a blue label slab than the other way around.

 

Common knowledge.....or common misconception?

 

 

Common sense? The more one practices something, generally speaking, the better one gets at whatever that is.

 

If you're missing trimming....you have no idea you're missing trimming.

And therefore the only thing you're getting better at is missing trimming....

[LordRahl]

It's fairly common knowledge that CGC's resto detection has gotten better over the years - I think it's much more likely that this was a restored book sitting in a blue label slab than the other way around.

 

Common knowledge.....or common misconception?

 

 

Common sense? The more one practices something, generally speaking, the better one gets at whatever that is.

 

If you're missing trimming....you have no idea you're missing trimming.

 

Until it comes to light, like the Ewert books. I can't imagine that didn't teach them something about trimming detection.

[paperheart]

I envision another scenario where The CGC purchases the JIM, attaches a thin chain to the top two corners, then uses it as an in-house dunce cap by making any employee who up wear it around his or her neck for the day.