Ive lost ALL confidence in CGC - UPDATE on page 221 2 2

[manetteska]

My concern is that the practice of micro-trimming will be met by a wave of indifference.

 

 

I don't see how any other outcome could come of this. If CGC is admittedly unable to consistently detect trimming, then consumers only have 2 choices:

 

1. Indifference

2. Stop using CGC

 

Is there another option I'm missing?

 

I wouldn't want a trimmed book - micro or not.

 

Can anyone (or company) consistently detect trimming? Why is this issue specifically on CGC?

[techtre2003]

So when the only reason I am going to use your service is shown to have flaws like we've seen here it really doesn't instill a lot of confidence.

 

When you are have a 98% chance that a book is restored or a 98% chance a book is not restored, which one instills more confidence?

 

If those were true proven numbers I'd say you got me. But you and I both know they aren't.

[THE_BEYONDER]

I wouldn't want a trimmed book - micro or not.

 

Why not?

[gadzukes]

This thread is SO long and I haven't been able to keep up with it because I've been traveling.

 

I understand most of what happened but would love a review of all the main points touched on.

 

Can anyone put together a brief review?

 

Also, has CGC made any statements regarding the thread?

 

Thanks

[CBT]

This thread is SO long and I haven't been able to keep up with it because I've been traveling.

 

I understand most of what happened but would love a review of all the main points touched on.

 

Can anyone put together a brief review?

 

Also, has CGC made any statements regarding the thread?

 

Thanks

 

1.) Dan bought 6.0 Blue with intention of re-sub believing it to be undergraded, he cracked it out himself, sub'd raw.

 

2.) The book came in as 7.0 Purple, he called to point out it came from a blue label slab.

 

3.) CGC "investigated", and responded to him that "Everyone in the building has looked at it, definitely trimmed, Purple"

 

4.) With no recourse, and having to take their word, he recieved the book, sold it as Purple.

 

5.) The new buyer, knowing the details, and like Dan, believing it not to be Trimmed, resubmitted.

 

6.) The book came back 6.0 Blue again, Buyer informed Dan, Dan made thread.

 

7.) CGC's "fans" on the board cast aspersions on both Dan and the Buyer as possibly having some anti-CGC "motivation"

 

8.) Other people debated, how CGC needs more accountability and transparency

 

9.) CGC responded that they made a mistake, were in the process of buying the book, and that it was "FOR SURE" trimmed.

 

10.) Turns out, the buyer is not selling them the book, the "FOR SURE" was based on the previous purpling, and no new examination of the book.

[VintageComics]

So when the only reason I am going to use your service is shown to have flaws like we've seen here it really doesn't instill a lot of confidence.

 

When you are have a 98% chance that a book is restored or a 98% chance a book is not restored, which one instills more confidence?

 

If those were true proven numbers I'd say you got me. But you and I both know they aren't.

 

I'm maintaining thata those numbers are fairly accurate based on my 10 years of submitting books to CGC.

 

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

So when the only reason I am going to use your service is shown to have flaws like we've seen here it really doesn't instill a lot of confidence.

 

When you are have a 98% chance that a book is restored or a 98% chance a book is not restored, which one instills more confidence?

 

If those were true proven numbers I'd say you got me. But you and I both know they aren't.

 

I'm maintaining thata those numbers are fairly accurate based on my 10 years of submitting books to CGC.

 

 

Your numbers make no sense. How can you prove one way or the other that a book is ACTUALLY trimmed?

[kav]

This thread is SO long and I haven't been able to keep up with it because I've been traveling.

 

I understand most of what happened but would love a review of all the main points touched on.

 

Can anyone put together a brief review?

 

Also, has CGC made any statements regarding the thread?

 

Thanks

 

1.) Dan bought 6.0 Blue with intention of re-sub believing it to be undergraded, he cracked it out himself, sub'd raw.

 

2.) The book came in as 7.0 Purple, he called to point out it came from a blue label slab.

 

3.) CGC "investigated", and responded to him that "Everyone in the building has looked at it, definitely trimmed, Purple"

 

4.) With no recourse, and having to take their word, he recieved the book, sold it as Purple.

 

5.) The new buyer, knowing the details, and like Dan, believing it not to be Trimmed, resubmitted.

 

6.) The book came back 6.0 Blue again, Buyer informed Dan, Dan made thread.

 

7.) CGC's "fans" on the board cast aspersions on both Dan and the Buyer as possibly having some anti-CGC "motivation"

 

8.) Other people debated, how CGC needs more accountability and transparency

 

9.) CGC responded that they made a mistake, were in the process of buying the book, and that it was "FOR SURE" trimmed.

 

10.) Turns out, the buyer is not selling them the book, the "FOR SURE" was based on the previous purpling, and no new examination of the book.

 

11) Kav keeps popping up with inane comments.

[LordRahl]

My concern is that the practice of micro-trimming will be met by a wave of indifference.

 

 

I don't see how any other outcome could come of this. If CGC is admittedly unable to consistently detect trimming, then consumers only have 2 choices:

 

1. Indifference

2. Stop using CGC

 

Is there another option I'm missing?

 

I'm not entirely sure what CGC has to do with it.

 

Let's say CGC went belly up tomorrow. Then what? High grade Silver and Gold will still sell for thousands of dollars, tens of thousands even. Do you think people will stop micro-trimming because CGC folded? If anything they will do it more.

[THE_BEYONDER]

My concern is that the practice of micro-trimming will be met by a wave of indifference.

 

 

I don't see how any other outcome could come of this. If CGC is admittedly unable to consistently detect trimming, then consumers only have 2 choices:

 

1. Indifference

2. Stop using CGC

 

Is there another option I'm missing?

 

I'm not entirely sure what CGC has to do with it.

 

Let's say CGC went belly up tomorrow. Then what? High grade Silver and Gold will still sell for thousands of dollars, tens of thousands even. Do you think people will stop micro-trimming because CGC folded? If anything they will do it more.

 

This thread pertains to CGC

 

HG Silver & Gold will NEVER reach the same hammer prices raw that they have with CGC.

[Quicksilver Signs]

I wouldn't want a trimmed book - micro or not.

 

Why not?

 

Ditto that.

 

I don't understand how trimming is considered resto when you're taking away and not adding to. It should be noted but more as a defect than a resto similar to a taped spine.

 

I'd be happy to have any resto 60's Marvel key in my collection

[LordRahl]

My concern is that the practice of micro-trimming will be met by a wave of indifference.

 

 

I don't see how any other outcome could come of this. If CGC is admittedly unable to consistently detect trimming, then consumers only have 2 choices:

 

1. Indifference

2. Stop using CGC

 

Is there another option I'm missing?

 

I'm not entirely sure what CGC has to do with it.

 

Let's say CGC went belly up tomorrow. Then what? High grade Silver and Gold will still sell for thousands of dollars, tens of thousands even. Do you think people will stop micro-trimming because CGC folded? If anything they will do it more.

 

This thread pertains to CGC

 

HG Silver & Gold will NEVER reach the same hammer prices raw that they have with CGC.

 

The same? No. But that doesn't mean they won't sell for a lot of money. You seem to be equating micro-trimming with something that happens because of CGC. Micro-trimming will still happen if CGC folds tomorrow. Just because an FF 1 in NM "only" sells for $25K instead of $125K does not mean there will be no financial incentive to monkey with it.

[THE_BEYONDER]

My concern is that the practice of micro-trimming will be met by a wave of indifference.

 

 

I don't see how any other outcome could come of this. If CGC is admittedly unable to consistently detect trimming, then consumers only have 2 choices:

 

1. Indifference

2. Stop using CGC

 

Is there another option I'm missing?

 

I'm not entirely sure what CGC has to do with it.

 

Let's say CGC went belly up tomorrow. Then what? High grade Silver and Gold will still sell for thousands of dollars, tens of thousands even. Do you think people will stop micro-trimming because CGC folded? If anything they will do it more.

 

This thread pertains to CGC

 

HG Silver & Gold will NEVER reach the same hammer prices raw that they have with CGC.

 

The same? No. But that doesn't mean they won't sell for a lot of money. You seem to be equating micro-trimming with something that happens because of CGC. Micro-trimming will still happen if CGC folds tomorrow. Just because an FF 1 in NM "only" sells for $25K instead of $125K does not mean there will be no financial incentive to monkey with it.

 

I'm not sure that we disagree.

 

I'm trying to understand why consumers would continue to submit their books to CGC if CGC can't consistently detect trimming.

 

If CGC = raw in regard to micro-trimming, then wouldn't consumers rather pay 25K for a NM FF 1 than 125K?

[LordRahl]

I wouldn't want a trimmed book - micro or not.

 

Why not?

 

Ditto that.

 

I don't understand how trimming is considered resto when you're taking away and not adding to. It should be noted but more as a defect than a resto similar to a taped spine.

 

I'd be happy to have any resto 60's Marvel key in my collection

 

While I agree to some extent, trimming is destruction, it is being done with the express purpose of improving the appearance of a book which is what a lot (if not most) resto is done for. Therefore trimming got lumped in with resto. It should be considered a defect and downgraded for but the practice of considering it resto is so established that it's probably a bit late in the game now to be changing it.

[LordRahl]

My concern is that the practice of micro-trimming will be met by a wave of indifference.

 

 

I don't see how any other outcome could come of this. If CGC is admittedly unable to consistently detect trimming, then consumers only have 2 choices:

 

1. Indifference

2. Stop using CGC

 

Is there another option I'm missing?

 

I'm not entirely sure what CGC has to do with it.

 

Let's say CGC went belly up tomorrow. Then what? High grade Silver and Gold will still sell for thousands of dollars, tens of thousands even. Do you think people will stop micro-trimming because CGC folded? If anything they will do it more.

 

This thread pertains to CGC

 

HG Silver & Gold will NEVER reach the same hammer prices raw that they have with CGC.

 

The same? No. But that doesn't mean they won't sell for a lot of money. You seem to be equating micro-trimming with something that happens because of CGC. Micro-trimming will still happen if CGC folds tomorrow. Just because an FF 1 in NM "only" sells for $25K instead of $125K does not mean there will be no financial incentive to monkey with it.

 

I'm not sure that we disagree.

 

I'm trying to understand why consumers would continue to submit their books to CGC if CGC can't consistently detect trimming.

 

If CGC = raw in regard to micro-trimming, then wouldn't consumers rather pay 25K for a NM FF 1 than 125K?

 

Because even if they can't detect it all the time, they can detect it a lot more consistently than 99.9% of the collecting community.

[THE_BEYONDER]

My concern is that the practice of micro-trimming will be met by a wave of indifference.

 

 

I don't see how any other outcome could come of this. If CGC is admittedly unable to consistently detect trimming, then consumers only have 2 choices:

 

1. Indifference

2. Stop using CGC

 

Is there another option I'm missing?

 

I'm not entirely sure what CGC has to do with it.

 

Let's say CGC went belly up tomorrow. Then what? High grade Silver and Gold will still sell for thousands of dollars, tens of thousands even. Do you think people will stop micro-trimming because CGC folded? If anything they will do it more.

 

This thread pertains to CGC

 

HG Silver & Gold will NEVER reach the same hammer prices raw that they have with CGC.

 

The same? No. But that doesn't mean they won't sell for a lot of money. You seem to be equating micro-trimming with something that happens because of CGC. Micro-trimming will still happen if CGC folds tomorrow. Just because an FF 1 in NM "only" sells for $25K instead of $125K does not mean there will be no financial incentive to monkey with it.

 

I'm not sure that we disagree.

 

I'm trying to understand why consumers would continue to submit their books to CGC if CGC can't consistently detect trimming.

 

If CGC = raw in regard to micro-trimming, then wouldn't consumers rather pay 25K for a NM FF 1 than 125K?

 

Because even if they can't detect it all the time, they can detect it a lot more consistently than 99.9% of the collecting community.

 

99.9%?

 

C'mon now. Please don't just make mess up.

[LordRahl]

Not to mention that micro-trimming is only one of a myriad of things that could be done to a book. Most of those other things are caught much more reliably.

[THE_BEYONDER]

Not to mention that micro-trimming is only one of a myriad of things that could be done to a book. Most of those other things are caught much more reliably.

 

Like pressing?

[LordRahl]

My concern is that the practice of micro-trimming will be met by a wave of indifference.

 

 

I don't see how any other outcome could come of this. If CGC is admittedly unable to consistently detect trimming, then consumers only have 2 choices:

 

1. Indifference

2. Stop using CGC

 

Is there another option I'm missing?

 

I'm not entirely sure what CGC has to do with it.

 

Let's say CGC went belly up tomorrow. Then what? High grade Silver and Gold will still sell for thousands of dollars, tens of thousands even. Do you think people will stop micro-trimming because CGC folded? If anything they will do it more.

 

This thread pertains to CGC

 

HG Silver & Gold will NEVER reach the same hammer prices raw that they have with CGC.

 

The same? No. But that doesn't mean they won't sell for a lot of money. You seem to be equating micro-trimming with something that happens because of CGC. Micro-trimming will still happen if CGC folds tomorrow. Just because an FF 1 in NM "only" sells for $25K instead of $125K does not mean there will be no financial incentive to monkey with it.

 

I'm not sure that we disagree.

 

I'm trying to understand why consumers would continue to submit their books to CGC if CGC can't consistently detect trimming.

 

If CGC = raw in regard to micro-trimming, then wouldn't consumers rather pay 25K for a NM FF 1 than 125K?

 

Because even if they can't detect it all the time, they can detect it a lot more consistently than 99.9% of the collecting community.

 

99.9%?

 

C'mon now. Please don't just make mess up.

 

I'm really not making up that number. How many people in this hobby do you think can reliably tell if a book was micro-trimmed? Honest question. Give me your opinion.

[THE_BEYONDER]

My concern is that the practice of micro-trimming will be met by a wave of indifference.

 

 

I don't see how any other outcome could come of this. If CGC is admittedly unable to consistently detect trimming, then consumers only have 2 choices:

 

1. Indifference

2. Stop using CGC

 

Is there another option I'm missing?

 

I'm not entirely sure what CGC has to do with it.

 

Let's say CGC went belly up tomorrow. Then what? High grade Silver and Gold will still sell for thousands of dollars, tens of thousands even. Do you think people will stop micro-trimming because CGC folded? If anything they will do it more.

 

This thread pertains to CGC

 

HG Silver & Gold will NEVER reach the same hammer prices raw that they have with CGC.

 

The same? No. But that doesn't mean they won't sell for a lot of money. You seem to be equating micro-trimming with something that happens because of CGC. Micro-trimming will still happen if CGC folds tomorrow. Just because an FF 1 in NM "only" sells for $25K instead of $125K does not mean there will be no financial incentive to monkey with it.

 

I'm not sure that we disagree.

 

I'm trying to understand why consumers would continue to submit their books to CGC if CGC can't consistently detect trimming.

 

If CGC = raw in regard to micro-trimming, then wouldn't consumers rather pay 25K for a NM FF 1 than 125K?

 

Because even if they can't detect it all the time, they can detect it a lot more consistently than 99.9% of the collecting community.

 

99.9%?

 

C'mon now. Please don't just make mess up.

 

I'm really not making up that number. How many people in this hobby do you think can reliably tell if a book was micro-trimmed? Honest question. Give me your opinion.

 

First I'd have to know how many people are in this hobby.....