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The Official Groo Appreciation Thread!
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360 posts in this topic

I am just looking at my old notes, just for the Groo "investors" here.

The population as of GCG 9.8 as of mid-2021:

Groo #1 Pacific = 126

Destroyer Duck #1 = 99

I don't have notes for DD, but by 2022 the population for Groo #1 rose to 174.

Now, we are 2023 and the population is:

Groo #1 Pacific = 193

Destroyer Duck #1 = 157

Also for what it's worth, right now there are eBay BIN's on these issues that are currently not moving:

Groo #1 @$190 and DD#1 @435.

The last DD#1 sale at open eBay auction went for $338 last September 18, 2023 with 4 bids.

The drastic increase in population in both issues is clearly caused by people having their copies graded after that aberration of a result when a DD#1 went for over $1k a few years ago.  But even today, the raw number of 193 and 157 copies respectively is still relatively low for a major character's first appearance from perhaps the greatest cartoonist of all-time.  Groo has also been around over 40 years and is the poster child for independent creator-owned characters.  So the long term possibility could be that Groo can still pickup eventually if his popularity will somehow surge into other media.  If that happens, supply seems relatively low in terms of raw numbers.  Another is the total opposite, and Groo will be what he is - a humor genre character where there is little interest - just like you can buy even 1900's to 1920's newspaper strip original art (over 100 years old) for relatively nothing.

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On 10/21/2023 at 6:08 AM, jick said:

I am just looking at my old notes, just for the Groo "investors" here.

The population as of GCG 9.8 as of mid-2021:

Groo #1 Pacific = 126

Destroyer Duck #1 = 99

I don't have notes for DD, but by 2022 the population for Groo #1 rose to 174.

Now, we are 2023 and the population is:

Groo #1 Pacific = 193

Destroyer Duck #1 = 157

Also for what it's worth, right now there are eBay BIN's on these issues that are currently not moving:

Groo #1 @$190 and DD#1 @435.

The last DD#1 sale at open eBay auction went for $338 last September 18, 2023 with 4 bids.

The drastic increase in population in both issues is clearly caused by people having their copies graded after that aberration of a result when a DD#1 went for over $1k a few years ago.  But even today, the raw number of 193 and 157 copies respectively is still relatively low for a major character's first appearance from perhaps the greatest cartoonist of all-time.  Groo has also been around over 40 years and is the poster child for independent creator-owned characters.  So the long term possibility could be that Groo can still pickup eventually if his popularity will somehow surge into other media.  If that happens, supply seems relatively low in terms of raw numbers.  Another is the total opposite, and Groo will be what he is - a humor genre character where there is little interest - just like you can buy even 1900's to 1920's newspaper strip original art (over 100 years old) for relatively nothing.

DD did have alledged sales $1850 range. To be clear anyone who purchased DD1 in 9.8 at $1000 was a fool at $1500+ a mendicant's mendicant... those who heeded advice from myself and others like jick in this thread can now pick up one at FMV of ~340. Where my guess is in the range it will stagnate for the long haul.

I for one am glad Groo prices are now within reach of True Groo fans and not mendicant flippers and speculators.

Seems of the Early Groo #1's, Groo Special is by far the most rare in 9.8. Oddly it's also the least expensive. Although in Overstreet from 1987 to at least 2008 it had the higher valuation.  While it is the least submitted as I recall it by far had the lowest print run, due to the last minute change in publishers due to Pacific going belly up and that Eclipse knew going into the deal it was a one-shot only and Groo was going to Epic/Marvel

 Books CGC Label CGC Total Avg. Grade 10 9.9 9.8 9.6 9.4 9.2 9.0 8.5 8.0 7.5 7.0 6.5 6.0 5.5 5.0 4.5 4.0 3.5 3.0 2.5 2.0 1.8 1.5 1.0 0.5
 1. Destroyer Duck 1 (2/82, Eclipse)
            Jack Kirby & Neal Adams cover. 1st appearance of Groo the Wanderer. Origin & 1st appearance Dest
Universal 961 9.23     157 245 210 131 77 63 36 16 11 3 3 5 1 1 2              
 Books CGC Label CGC Total Avg. Grade 10 9.9 9.8 9.6 9.4 9.2 9.0 8.5 8.0 7.5 7.0 6.5 6.0 5.5 5.0 4.5 4.0 3.5 3.0 2.5 2.0 1.8 1.5 1.0 0.5
 1. Groo the Wanderer 1 (12/82, Pacific Comics)
            1st appearance of The Sage & Taranto. Sergio Aragones biography.
Universal 556 9.32     193 126 84 46 37 22 19 10 7 4 3 2 3                    
 2. Groo Special 1 (10/84, Eclipse) Universal 132 9.52     61 29 21 10 2 3 5 1                              
 3. Groo the Wanderer 1 (3/85, Marvel/Epic Comics) Universal 442 9.31   3 151 109 56 34 24 27 11 14 2 4 4 2 1                  
Edited by MAR1979
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On 9/20/2022 at 1:02 PM, MAR1979 said:

It was animation rights and without Sergio or Mark's involvement it won't be really be Groo. In the near impossible event soemthign does transpire. It a concept that must be handled very carefully and with out hose 2 it's not more than some mendicant mass-murderer. 

IMHO anyone purchasing Groo keys at today's prices will lose on ROI in the future. Money might be better spent on cheese dip.

  

On 7/4/2022 at 11:50 AM, MAR1979 said:

 

Destroyer Duck 1 9.8's  are now barely scraping $700 and the grip is extremely tenuous. Those who paid $1500-$1900 have every right to be worried as this book still has plenty of room to free fall to it's floor and then will stagnate.   I wager 9.6's will be below $150 with no demand by year's end.  Temporary Dead Cat Bounce aside, it is plausible this book may never be hot again in our lifetimes (fool me once applies to those who have been burned) and frankly never should have it high levels to begin with as a mere animation rights exploration announcement at best is a "nothing burger".  

As "keys" like Destroyer Duck #1, Groo Pacific #1,7, Groo Marvel 1 continue to plummet we'll learn who are the true Groo fans are - they will be the one's still participating in this thread as it again becomes about Groo the Character and not Bubble Market reports and hyperbole.

 

image.thumb.png.e2068e25729e1779aea887a0eddfc45a.png

 

P.S.  I see gocollect is still trying to fool the same ol' rubes with the same ol' tired lines..  This past week they added Groo 1 to list of "undervalued comics". Appears the self-serving writer (Ohlandt ) is stuck with a cache of them purchased Dec 2021-Feb 2022 at market highs.  Want to get burned financially buying comics, then simply believe any of the $elf-$erving hyperbole on GoCollect. 

 

P.S. The whole Groo animation exploration rights nonsense as I stated from the get-go was and is a Nothing Burger. Oh where oh where are the folks who scoffed at that 12-28 months ago :)

I laugh at this pandemic bubble era comment earlier in this thread regarding Destroyer Duck 1 9.8

One for $660 before that.

That book is sooooo under valued.  

Be patient.  It's percolating...

Wrong! :nyah:  and the poster likley knew that as well at the time.

BTW I know who purchased the recent $338 copy on eBay. Guy has another 9.8 copy with a wrap that is nice but not perfect so he upgraded. In effect he had a buy-order in at $350 even though he knew it might still dip below $300.   DD#1 9.6's are they even worth the CGC grade-slab fees anymore ?

 

 

Edited by MAR1979
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On a different note, I've been impressed with the prices realized on Groo OA lately.   

Pieces from early marvel issues in the last signature did very well, and so did pages, in a recent weekly, from the Image series which in my eyes are much less desirable (although some of them did feature my favorite witches, Arba and Dakarba).

Maybe that makes a lot more sense than 9.8 destroyer duck 1's.

Edited by Bronty
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Right now, $435 seems modestly tempting for a DD#1 9.8, but from my country and our weak currency, it's a pass.  I think in the end, when slabbed comics will continue their nosedive in value, the non-vintage ones will mostly make nice display.  In that case, I still think that Groo #1 Pacific is the issue to have because it is Groo's "first cover appearance."  While Groo Special #1 is much more rare, and is much better composed image - I think Pacific #1 will be the "go to" issue for both collectors and those looking for wall hangers when the values really nosedive.

Speaking of Groo original art, I am actually in disagreement that they did well.  Vintage Marvel Groo covers have sold for roughly $10k but remember that is Heritage and there is a buyer's premium.  So the money the buyer takes home is considerably less maybe $7k or less when you take away buyer's premium and percentage.  Meanwhile, Groo covers from the Dark Horse era are going for only $3k to $4k, so the take home of the seller is actually $2.4k to $3k - more or less.   The Dark Horse era of Groo is already 20 years old, and Groo original art is perhaps the last remaining one up to this day where the lettering is still done on the actual board.

Speaking of lettering, Groo's letterer - Stan Sakai actually sells for more than Sergio's Groo art.  His creator-owned character Usagi Yojimbo's original art sells for considerably higher than Groo.  Then you have Mike Mignola's Hellboy - even his simple pencil sketches non-published sell for roughly the same amount as a modern Groo cover.  Then another indie character - Nexus - has art that sells for more than Groo art.  Finally, consider also that Aragones has been holding original art supply of Groo as he still keeps majority of the complete issues' original art (he is kinda like Walt Simonson or Jerry Ordway or David Mazzuchelli or McFarlane to Spawn) so there is very little in the market.  That should artificially inflate Groo original art prices, but it hasn't.

In summary, Groo CGC 9.8 keys are going the bargain bin way and his original art goes for considerably less than other independently owned characters despite the limited supply.  Either Groo is terribly undervalued (which I doubt!) or very few people really care about Groo.  I guess it's only us.  

If the prices continue the nosedive, I will buy more slabs of Pacific and DD#1.  And if the OA prices maintain but my disposable income miraculously expands, I will definitely get more Groo OA.  All because of my love for the character and not because of some market speculation or false hope!

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On 10/23/2023 at 8:19 PM, jick said:

Speaking of lettering, Groo's letterer - Stan Sakai actually sells for more than Sergio's Groo art.  His creator-owned character Usagi Yojimbo's original art sells for considerably higher than Groo.  Then you have Mike Mignola's Hellboy - even his simple pencil sketches non-published sell for roughly the same amount as a modern Groo cover.  Then another indie character - Nexus - has art that sells for more than Groo art.  Finally, consider also that Aragones has been holding original art supply of Groo as he still keeps majority of the complete issues' original art (he is kinda like Walt Simonson or Jerry Ordway or David Mazzuchelli or McFarlane to Spawn) so there is very little in the market.  That should artificially inflate Groo original art prices, but it hasn't.

 

Add Milgrom to that list of names - very little out there of stuff he both penciled and inked. 

 

On 10/23/2023 at 8:19 PM, jick said:

Right now, $435 seems modestly tempting for a DD#1 9.8, but from my country and our weak currency, it's a pass.  I think in the end, when slabbed comics will continue their nosedive in value, the non-vintage ones will mostly make nice display.  In that case, I still think that Groo #1 Pacific is the issue to have because it is Groo's "first cover appearance."  While Groo Special #1 is much more rare, and is much better composed image - I think Pacific #1 will be the "go to" issue for both collectors and those looking for wall hangers when the values really nosedive.

 

Agreed! A true Groo fan wants a cover image.  Pacific #1, Special #1, Marvel Age #24 and Epic/Marvel #1 as the keys/semi-keys go, all display very nicely.

 

Destroyer Duck #1 was one of the books I picked up at my first ever visit to a Comic Book store as Child.  At that point the book had been out for 10 months. The shop had a load of them behind the counter and was offering them at 1/2 off.

Edited by MAR1979
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On 10/24/2023 at 12:31 PM, Bronty said:

More importantly, the pages are just great.    From time to time I consider selling some, but I can't bring myself to do it, at least not yet.   They are masterfully drawn.

 

lIDd5upD_1408191729141gpadd.jpeg

:x

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Another DD1 9.8w  sold on eBay this am for $340 and previous was $338. A year back in this thread I said it would nestle into the 275-350 range for the long haul. So far I'm right on the money.

On 8/9/2023 at 9:11 PM, MAR1979 said:

As this a Groo Appreciation Thread thought I'd listed  my personal 5 Groo Keys in Order:

1) Groo Special #1 Eclipse - as I recall in the last 80's through late 90's it was the highest priced Groo in Overstreet.  First Groo Comic I ever purchased. In my first CGC Modern submission I sent in my childhood copy. Having that exact copy in the 1st gen CGC 9.8 slab means as much to me as any comic book I won.

2) Groo #8 Pacific - Final Pacific issue but First Groo comic I ever read, a buddy's copy, and the first Groo back issue I ever purchased. it also led to my picking up Groo Special when it arrived at my LCS.

3) Groo #1 Pacific - First Groo Cover and 1st full-story. IMHO the most important Groo issue ever published.. The book that truly displayed the Character as we would know him. 

4) Marvel Age #24 - My favorite Groo cover. On-sale several weeks prior to the first Marvel Groo issue.  The book served notice, at least to me as Child, that Groo was coming to Marvel.

5) Groo #120 Marvel/Epic - Final Marvel issue. While I've enjoyed Groo from other publishers since this last Marvel issue to me something has been missing. Perhaps since for the most part I grew up reading Marvel/Epic Groo it was simply an end of an era. After this series concluded Groo would never again have title that would register greater 1/10th of 120 issues.

Decided to revamp my list as leaving DD1 off was a questionable choice.

Now a top 7!

1) Groo Special #1 Eclipse - as I recall in the last 80's through late 90's it was the highest priced Groo in Overstreet.  First Groo Comic I ever purchased. In my first CGC Modern submission I sent in my childhood copy. Having that exact copy in the 1st gen CGC 9.8 slab means as much to me as any comic book I won.

2) Groo #8 Pacific - Final Pacific issue but First Groo comic I ever read, a buddy's copy, and the first Groo back issue I ever purchased. it also led to my picking up Groo Special when it arrived at my LCS.

3) Groo #1 Pacific - First Groo Cover and 1st full-story. IMHO the most important Groo issue ever published.. The book that truly displayed the Character as we would know him.

4) Destroyer Duck #1 Eclipse - First published Groo appearance.  No Dialog and the only pre-Evanier story.

5) Groo #120 Marvel/Epic - Final Marvel issue. While I've enjoyed Groo from other publishers since this last Marvel issue to me something has been missing. Perhaps since for the most part I grew up reading Marvel/Epic Groo it was simply an end of an era. After this series concluded Groo would never again have title that registered greater 1/10th of 120 issues.

6) Groo #1 Marvel/Epic - For the Majority of readers their first exposure to Groo. Overall it's probably the most important Groo Book published in terms of creating awareness of the Character even if for me it ranks 6th as a personal choice key.

7) Marvel Age #24 - My favorite Groo cover. On-sale several weeks prior to the first Marvel Groo issue.  The book served notice, at least to me as Child, that Groo was coming to Marvel. The most difficult to find book on my list.

 

 

Edited by MAR1979
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I was just monitoring an eBay auction for Destroyer Duck #1 CGC 9.8, well actually I bid on it.  I tapped out eventually.  But it sold for $306 - a new low for a freshly slabbed DD#1.  Looks like the Groo market is back to full niche.

MCS also has listings for DD#1 at $430 - which means the actual auction result is 75% of the asking price.  So I guess the actual current market value for Groo #1 Pacific is 75% of MCS listings which are  $175 to $185.  Hence, real world value for Groo #1 Pacific would be $130ish now that DD#1 is $306.

On a personal note, I already have my CGC 9.8 copies of DD#1 and Groo #1 so my coming Groo-related purchases are original art, straight from Sergio's daughter.

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On 11/27/2023 at 7:26 PM, jick said:

I was just monitoring an eBay auction for Destroyer Duck #1 CGC 9.8, well actually I bid on it.  I tapped out eventually.  But it sold for $306 - a new low for a freshly slabbed DD#1.  Looks like the Groo market is back to full niche.

MCS also has listings for DD#1 at $430 - which means the actual auction result is 75% of the asking price.  So I guess the actual current market value for Groo #1 Pacific is 75% of MCS listings which are  $175 to $185.  Hence, real world value for Groo #1 Pacific would be $130ish now that DD#1 is $306.
image.png

 

It's nice to be right, and we both were!

Mind-boggling there were those like Ohlandt on GoCollect and some on this forum who as late as Mid 2022 were stating DD#1 at $700 was undervalued 🤣.  My guess is they knew that was not true but wanted unload what they had before the bottom fell out.

I think now we real fans can get back to appreciating Groo :) 

 

Edited by MAR1979
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On 11/29/2023 at 8:32 AM, jick said:

Change topic from all the market watch reports.  Here is the most Groo piece that will be headed my way from Aragones Cartoons in FB (aka Sergio's daughter Kirsten).

This is 9" x 12" that I acquired for $950 - pretty steep price, but this is not an investment.  It's just for the love of Groo and I feel this image depicts some key elements such a Groo sinking ships, and Sergio's dragons (or sea creatures).  When I will receive it, Sergio's signature will be there to replace that post it sticker in the bottom right.

Groo-Sinking-Ship-Dragon.jpg

I love his ships and dragons too.

I look for his signature Groo elements when I am buying the art as well.    I want things like sinking ships, dragons, supporting characters, cheese dip, a fray, etc etc etc.   

Good stuff.

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Mulching is a process of inbred fertilization which employs certain decomposed organic materials — including, but not limited to animal sediment — to blanket an area in which vegetation is desired. The procedure enriches the soil for stimulated plant development while, at the same time, preventing erosion and decreasing the evaporation of moisture from the ground.

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