CGC Comments Regarding the JIM 83

[Green Army Men]

so for anyone wondering the JIM 83 received a blue label 6.0 grade-as of today

[Mark 1]

so for anyone wonder ing the JIM 83 received a blue label 6.0 grade-as of today

 

[faster friends]

How much wasted money was spent in pressing and grading fees just to get the book back to the same thing it was originaly 3 slabs ago. omg

[Mark 1]

It's quite amazing how many times people will CPR

[Comicopolis]

It's quite amazing how many times people will CPR

 

Miracles occasionally happen.

[VintageComics]

It's quite amazing how many times people will CPR

 

Miracles occasionally happen.

 

It's just random chance.

 

[Flaming_Telepath]

So what about an ad page missing on an otherwise 9.6 book?

 

Or a coupon clipped on an otherwise 9.6 book?

 

I'm assuming that these could now grade as high as - oh, I don't know - 8.0? 6.0? 7.0?

 

And we're not talking 'use the Qualified Label', as we're actually grading the book, not copping out.

 

Steve covered that in his last post, and I agree with him...

 

I don't think you can just say that a certain defect, such as a sub crease, must not be allowed in a higher grade than 4.0, unless it's a very high grade like 8.0. The look of the book, when it comes to grading, is very important. Now a book with a missing back cover or a centerfold would be a 0.5 and I don't think anyone would disagree.

 

But why?

 

Two specific flaws.

 

One with an immovable ceiling on the grade.

 

One without.

 

But both will be displayed on books that can otherwise differ greatly?

 

Because there's an enormous difference between a book with pages missing and a book with a crease.

 

And because a person holding the book in hand 9 times out of 10 will not understand the reasoning of why both books are the same grade when one obviously looks much better than the other.

 

It was easy to create cut-off grades when there were only 3 grades to choose from and comics were worth under $100.

 

We're in an era where that's not enough. Values vary by 5 and 6 figures, society can accept more detail and the grade needs to fairly represent what the book looks like - or at least closely interpret it.

 

 

But why?

 

Two specific flaws.

 

One with an immovable ceiling on the grade.

 

One without.

 

But both will be displayed on books that can otherwise differ greatly?

[Comicopolis]

It's quite amazing how many times people will CPR

 

Miracles occasionally happen.

 

It's just random chance.

 

Divine intervention.

[Green Army Men]

was it ever a graded higher, does anyone know the other grades? I have seen a bunch of JIM 83 over the years- and this one is defiantly the nicest 6.0 ever- even with the minor 3 inch subscription crease and reader wear, My other 6.0 copy looks like complete dog poop compared to this one.

[VintageComics]

It's quite amazing how many times people will CPR

 

Miracles occasionally happen.

 

It's just random chance.

 

Divine intervention.

 

Luck.

[VintageComics]

 

But why?

 

Two specific flaws.

 

One with an immovable ceiling on the grade.

 

One without.

 

But both will be displayed on books that can otherwise differ greatly?

 

Because there needs to be some visual and logical correlation between the grade and how the book looks.

 

When you had only 3 different grades and books were worth 2 figures, a coarse correlation of defects to grade was OK because nobody cared. Now it matters more.

 

Calling a book with just a cover length crease a VG and calling a worn out but still readable book a VG is irregular and illogical when looked at objectively and logically IMO.

 

Because the 'ceiling' has always changed as the hobby progressed, became more complicated, books became more valuable and our understand of the complexity of grading evolved.

 

As has been stated a zillion times, no grade was not good enough 40 years ago.

Good / Fine / Mint was not good enough to stay that way.

Add a VF? Still not good enough now (although it might have been when it was first done)

26 grades is not good enough.

 

Things change and evolve.

 

Calling a book with a crease a Fine instead of a VG does not do a disservice to VG books or NM books IMO. It makes grading look more logical to the casual observer.

 

And ultimately, grading is just an opinion. Overstreet made his opinions a standard but many things have changed since then.

 

 

[Flaming_Telepath]

So you have a book with a tiny one inch by one inch MVS clipped out.

 

And you have another book with a half-page ad clipped out.

 

You also have a book with a story page missing.

 

You have another with an ad page missing.

 

You have yet another with the whole centrefold missing.

 

Yet with these examples, there is only one grade applicable?

 

This has nothing to do with the evolution of grading criteria and everything to do with applying the 'new logic' across the board.

 

Or not, as appears the case.

[Flaming_Telepath]

And just as an over-riding addendum to all of this...

 

CGC's 'standards' cannot be used industry-wide, simply because they are not published and nobody can use them. You can make guesses and 'reverse engineer', but nobody bar CGC can accurately employee those 'standards'.

 

Overstreet remains the only real option for grading criteria.

[rodan57]

And just as an over-riding addendum to all of this...

 

CGC's 'standards' cannot be used industry-wide, simply because they are not published and nobody can use them. You can make guesses and 'reverse engineer', but nobody bar CGC can accurately employee those 'standards'.

 

Overstreet remains the only real option for grading criteria.

 

I would agree. I understand what the CGC offers as an opinion but I cannot help but temper this with a personal need to factor in such things as wrap, cut, paper quality, dust shadows and Marvel chipping in grading assessments.

[VintageComics]

So you have a book with a tiny one inch by one inch MVS clipped out.

 

And you have another book with a half-page ad clipped out.

 

You also have a book with a story page missing.

 

You have another with an ad page missing.

 

You have yet another with the whole centrefold missing.

 

Yet with these examples, there is only one grade applicable?

 

This has nothing to do with the evolution of grading criteria and everything to do with applying the 'new logic' across the board.

 

Or not, as appears the case.

 

I was simply debating the "book length crease belongs in a VG grade rather than a Fine grade" thought. I think that particular defect and decision has merit.

 

I genuinely am not sure what you're trying to say with the other examples but there is always merit in discussing the evolution of grading.

 

If you're asking me if all of the above defects should carry the same weight, maybe not. I hadn't really thought about it much.

[VintageComics]

And just as an over-riding addendum to all of this...

 

CGC's 'standards' cannot be used industry-wide, simply because they are not published and nobody can use them. You can make guesses and 'reverse engineer', but nobody bar CGC can accurately employee those 'standards'.

 

Overstreet remains the only real option for grading criteria.

 

Excellent point. (thumbs u

 

Obviously, those of us using 'CGC grading standards' but who don't work for CGC are using a standard that we believe CGC uses based on reverse engineering the process through personal experience.

 

 

[Green Army Men]

I won't be selling or resubmitting this book to CGC or PGX BTW, It will go on a self for a long time with my other silver age goodies in my bedroom- I actually think that all the hoopla surrounding the book-38 page thread and all- and still growing-make it a keeper for me now- Its kinda famous or infamous in its on history... but it would be interesting to know the other label grades- And if I ever do sell it- I have no problem disclosing the history concerning the trimmed purple not trimmed blue certifications... seems it has found a home at last.

[Bomber-Bob]

I won't be selling or resubmitting this book to CGC or PGX BTW, It will go on a self for a long time with my other silver age goodies in my bedroom- I actually think that all the hoopla surrounding the book-38 page thread and all- and still growing-make it a keeper for me now- Its kinda famous or infamous in its on history... but it would be interesting to know the other label grades- And if I ever do sell it- I have no problem disclosing the history concerning the trimmed purple not trimmed blue certifications... seems it has found a home at last.

 

I traded it to Spider-Dan in a 6.0 OW Blue label.

Dan resubbed and it got a 7.0 OW/W Purple.

Comicsrlife resubbed and got a 6.0 OW Blue.

You got a 6.0 Blue PQ ?

In summary, it received a 6.0 3 of 4 times. I once showed this book to Matt Nelson for an evaluation, long before he worked at CCS. He thought it could just as easily get a 5.5 as a 6.5, a press wouldn't really help, and he suggested to leave it alone and I did !

[Green Army Men]

PQ off white to white

[Green Army Men]

It did get the right grade after all.