Reasonable Price for ASM 361 0

[Zack1973]

Well prices are doing well, sold a Raw UPC copy for $60.00 US

[Santos208]

So wait...miswrapps demand a premium? Since when??

 

Maybe I'm not following the definition of miswrap, someone care to explain?

 

Im under the impression that a miswrap means part of the back cover is not fully centered and made its way to the front cover, am i right?

[ygogolak]

So wait...miswrapps demand a premium? Since when??

 

Maybe I'm not following the definition of miswrap, someone care to explain?

 

Im under the impression that a miswrap means part of the back cover is not fully centered and made its way to the front cover, am i right?

 

Other way around.

[divad]

So wait...miswrapps demand a premium? Since when??

 

Maybe I'm not following the definition of miswrap, someone care to explain?

 

Im under the impression that a miswrap means part of the back cover is not fully centered and made its way to the front cover, am i right?

 

Other way around.

 

Either way is a mis-wrap, doesn't matter which is where.

 

Oh wait, kinda confusing, I see what you meant. "Perfectly wrapped books demand a premium."

[ygogolak]

So wait...miswrapps demand a premium? Since when??

 

Maybe I'm not following the definition of miswrap, someone care to explain?

 

Im under the impression that a miswrap means part of the back cover is not fully centered and made its way to the front cover, am i right?

 

Other way around.

 

Either way is a mis-wrap, doesn't matter which is where.

 

Oh wait, kinda confusing, I see what you meant. "Perfectly wrapped books demand a premium."

 

Yes, perfection is everything (to some).

[Santos208]

Guess ill throw my perfect copies up for grab and list them at 1,000,000

[ygogolak]

Guess ill throw my perfect copies up for grab and list them at 1,000,000

 

Perfect? Must be 10.0's!

[Santos208]

I meant to say near perfect.

 

 

[CDaBruce]

What was the print run on the 2nd print?

[whetteon]

Dunno. All I could find on Comichron was that Amazing Spiderman #361 ranked #207 that year. So apparently 206 comics in 1992 sold better than Amazing Spiderman #361 and we know that the 2nd printing was probably half of the original.

 

No facts here mind you.. just thinking things out.

[mysterio]

Dunno. All I could find on Comichron was that Amazing Spiderman #361 ranked #207 that year. So apparently 206 comics in 1992 sold better than Amazing Spiderman #361 and we know that the 2nd printing was probably half of the original.

 

No facts here mind you.. just thinking things out.

 

If that is the sales figure for the year that may or may not tell us much about sales for #361. That could have been a particularly strong or weak month, no way to know.

 

I do know that I've seen relatively few second prints compared to firsts, so I would be very surprised if the numbers were even close to half the regular print run. I'd guess no more than 20-25% myself.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Posting this here, as it is relevant:

 

GORGEOUS!

 

I am not going to tell him he is mistaken, but somewhere along the lines maybe Marvel said lets do a 3rd and then changed their minds.

 

750K is a number we need to remember down the road because this book is going to get hot soon and be another big Marvel book in a year or two. I have to tell myself that occasionally because I have amassed a few nice copies.

 

Thanks for sharing that information.

 

Why are we taking this for grail when he said there were 3 printings?

 

Emberlin is mistaken.

 

Not only did the book NOT go to 3 printings, it did NOT sell 750,000 copies.

 

Common sense has to be used: 750,000 copies sold would mean that there were roughly 900,000-1 million copies printed, because the newsstand always returns *something,* Amazing Spiderman has *never* even come CLOSE to printing a million copies of ANY issue. And if they had printed a million copies, there would have been plenty of copies in circulation to more than cover demand...which means they wouldn't have gone to a second printing.

 

It must be remembered that this book was printed and on the stands in February of 1992. Now, granted, there had been crazy printruns....at the time, they were printing a million copies of Jim Lee's X-Men...but in February of 1992, McFarlane was long gone, and Amazing had simply been chugging along. Carnage was simply another character which took the comic buying public by surprise, which resulted in sellouts (read: not enough copies to go around) and an immediate second printing of not only #361, but #362 as well.

 

Immediate second or more printings always means that they didn't print enough in the first place.

 

They probably sold around 350,000-400,000 copies, which is nothing to sneeze at, but not anywhere near 750,000, which would have been more than the entire print run plus another 35% or so.

 

Look at the numbers: the numbers for two years had been in the 350,000 copies sold range. The SOO printed in #360 (which would have covered up to about issue #356, so only a few months before #361) shows a sell-through of 340,000 copies, on a just a bit less than 500,000 total print run. Nothing would much have changed going into #361.

 

And so, not only did you have unmet demand (which means they didn't print enough copies) and a sellout for #361, but you also had the same situation for #362, and both went to a second printing shortly after #363 came out.

 

INCLUDING the second printing, total copies for #361 probably sold in the neighborhood of 500,000 total copies.

 

Then, the next year, the SOO in #375, you see a big jump...and this makes sense, considering in that year you had the madness of Carnage, PLUS the 30th Anniversary hologram covers, which were also a huge hit. It was a big year for Spidey, and orders steadily increased throughout the year, in concert with the general ramp up in the entire industry.

 

It would be another full year before print runs got totally ridiculous, and this was reflected in Amazing Spiderman as well (which is why copies of #375 are EVERYWHERE.)

 

For reference:

 

http://www.comichron.com/titlespotlights/amazingspiderman.html

[RockMyAmadeus]

Dunno. All I could find on Comichron was that Amazing Spiderman #361 ranked #207 that year. So apparently 206 comics in 1992 sold better than Amazing Spiderman #361 and we know that the 2nd printing was probably half of the original.

 

No facts here mind you.. just thinking things out.

 

If that is the sales figure for the year that may or may not tell us much about sales for #361. That could have been a particularly strong or weak month, no way to know.

 

I do know that I've seen relatively few second prints compared to firsts, so I would be very surprised if the numbers were even close to half the regular print run. I'd guess no more than 20-25% myself.

 

Correct. At most.

 

PS. To add to my statement above, Carnage *absolutely* helped the numbers for later issues of Amazing, which propelled #365 into the top selling book for its month, beating million+ sellers like Spawn, X-Men, etc.

 

I take it back...#365 *may* have had a million+ print run. It's doubtful, but possible. If so, it would be the only time in the run's history.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Dunno. All I could find on Comichron was that Amazing Spiderman #361 ranked #207 that year. So apparently 206 comics in 1992 sold better than Amazing Spiderman #361 and we know that the 2nd printing was probably half of the original.

 

No facts here mind you.. just thinking things out.

 

Spidey #361 was 207th for DIAMOND. Diamond, at the time, was not the whole of the comics industry, though they certainly comprised a huge chunk.

 

Diamond accounted for perhaps 40% of the entire market at the time. We're still missing the other distributors (notably Capital) and the entire newsstand sales.

 

It does provide a decent proportional slice, though, and you can see on the list the next year's worth of Amazing climbing steadily up the list (including #365 at #14.)

[kimik]

And the reason that ASM #365 sold so many copies was.........hologram cover!

[whetteon]

So RMH, are you basically saying that a best case scenario of 400,00 for all #361 printings and a 20-25% 2nd print ratio would mean 80,000 copies of 361 2nd printing exist? Or am I missing something?

Edited June 25, 2014 by whetteon

[RockMyAmadeus]

And the reason that ASM #365 sold so many copies was.........hologram cover!

 

Yup.

 

Can you IMAGINE if the ENTIRE COVER had been a hologram....??

 

 

It would have been AWESOME for ALL FOUR!

[RockMyAmadeus]

So RMH, are you basically saying that a best case scenario of 400,00 for all #361 printings and a 20-25% 2nd print ratio would mean 80,000 copies of 361 2nd printing exist? Or am I missing something?

 

That's about right. I'd go with 100,000 copies for the second, but as we all know, second printings are far, far, far less common on all of these than the firsts.

 

"Second printing??! EWWW!!! No one wants THAT!!" was conventional wisdom for years and years and years. You might as well have tossed it in the trash.

 

I remember being suckered into buying a Batman #436 second printing...when I realized what it was, I was PEEVED!

[Broke as a Joke]

Second printings and third printings should still be viewed as "eww junk", but the print run police care about scarcity so it turns into a "hot" book. Even though it is basically a manufactured collectible at that point. Sometimes the other printings have a different cover which at least offers something new.

 

I would like to see all 2nd printings have a higher print run than the first printing, thus keeping intact the desire for the original. And if the publisher is worried that doesn't make fiscal sense then don't go to a second printing. Just collect it in a trade.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Second printings and third printings should still be viewed as "eww junk", but the print run police care about scarcity so it turns into a "hot" book. Even though it is basically a manufactured collectible at that point. Sometimes the other printings have a different cover which at least offers something new.

 

I would like to see all 2nd printings have a higher print run than the first printing, thus keeping intact the desire for the original. And if the publisher is worried that doesn't make fiscal sense then don't go to a second printing. Just collect it in a trade.

 

That makes no sense, especially in this era of ultra low printruns. If there's demand...print it up. They need to be able to show something to keep printing them.

 

I understand that they've taken that to ridiculous heights, but it wasn't so in the olden days, and those books therefore have legitimate validity as collector's items.

 

Remember: it's not what was highly treasured when it came out that has value (think: Beanie Babies; Tickle Me Elmo, etc.) but that which was considered trash and discarded en masse.