Cole Schave collection: face jobs?

[VintageComics]

What depressed me was not the DD#7, but rather this statement from bomber-bob:

"... if you ever ever [sic] owned books from certain pedigrees that have outstanding color you can see a deterioration in the color after a pressing.

It's a subtle thing, only noticeable in hand, but that sharp brightness, fresh off the stand look is diminished. I can only imagine that multiple pressings will completely destroy the freshness factor."

 

This is the first I've heard of this, and I've handled 1000's of high grade books, both pressed and not pressed. There has been no discernible difference or pattern that I've been able to see.

 

If you're going to feel like dying every time someone says something that may or may not be true about a comic book, you might want to hang out in the GA forum where people are more respectful of weaker hearts.

[MCMiles]

This thread for about 3,070 posts now...

 

 

 

Did you miss the guy wishing he were dead?

 

It was semi interesting.

 

I wonder how's he going to react when he discovers that the very example that made him wish he was dead - the DD #7 jumping from an 8.5 to a 9.6 and loosing its "freshness" in the process - was completely made up

 

What depressed me was not the DD#7, but rather this statement from bomber-bob:

"... if you ever ever [sic] owned books from certain pedigrees that have outstanding color you can see a deterioration in the color after a pressing.

It's a subtle thing, only noticeable in hand, but that sharp brightness, fresh off the stand look is diminished. I can only imagine that multiple pressings will completely destroy the freshness factor."

Well, chear up. You can't and shouldn't believe everything people put on the Interwebs.

[Bomber-Bob]

What depressed me was not the DD#7, but rather this statement from bomber-bob:

"... if you ever ever [sic] owned books from certain pedigrees that have outstanding color you can see a deterioration in the color after a pressing.

It's a subtle thing, only noticeable in hand, but that sharp brightness, fresh off the stand look is diminished. I can only imagine that multiple pressings will completely destroy the freshness factor."

 

This is the first I've heard of this, and I've handled 1000's of high grade books, both pressed and not pressed. There has been no discernible difference or pattern that I've been able to see.

 

If you're going to feel like dying every time someone says something that may or may not be true about a comic book, you might want to hang out in the GA forum where people are more respectful of weaker hearts.

 

I stand by my statement. I've probably had 300 Pedigree submissions.

The few that I pressed lost 'some' of that brightness. I submit for my personal collection. I love the books, I stare at them. I know the difference.

I had a friend that submitted a non-ped but still beautiful copy of ASM 129 for pressing. First book he ever pressed. He said the same thing. The yellows were not quite as yellow. BTW, he got the grade he wanted.

[DiceX]

This thread for about 3,070 posts now...

 

 

 

Did you miss the guy wishing he were dead?

 

It was semi interesting.

 

I wonder how's he going to react when he discovers that the very example that made him wish he was dead - the DD #7 jumping from an 8.5 to a 9.6 and loosing its "freshness" in the process - was completely made up

 

What depressed me was not the DD#7, but rather this statement from bomber-bob:

"... if you ever ever [sic] owned books from certain pedigrees that have outstanding color you can see a deterioration in the color after a pressing.

It's a subtle thing, only noticeable in hand, but that sharp brightness, fresh off the stand look is diminished. I can only imagine that multiple pressings will completely destroy the freshness factor."

Well, chear up. You can't and shouldn't believe everything people put on the Interwebs.

 

 

 

[MCMiles]

What depressed me was not the DD#7, but rather this statement from bomber-bob:

"... if you ever ever [sic] owned books from certain pedigrees that have outstanding color you can see a deterioration in the color after a pressing.

It's a subtle thing, only noticeable in hand, but that sharp brightness, fresh off the stand look is diminished. I can only imagine that multiple pressings will completely destroy the freshness factor."

 

This is the first I've heard of this, and I've handled 1000's of high grade books, both pressed and not pressed. There has been no discernible difference or pattern that I've been able to see.

 

If you're going to feel like dying every time someone says something that may or may not be true about a comic book, you might want to hang out in the GA forum where people are more respectful of weaker hearts.

 

I stand by my statement. I've probably had 300 Pedigree submissions.

The few that I pressed lost 'some' of that brightness. I submit for my personal collection. I love the books, I stare at them. I know the difference.

I had a friend that submitted a non-ped but still beautiful copy of ASM 129 for pressing. First book he ever pressed. He said the same thing. The yellows were not quite as yellow. BTW, he got the grade he wanted.

 

You need to find a different person to press your books.

[c-mack]

What depressed me was not the DD#7, but rather this statement from bomber-bob:

"... if you ever ever [sic] owned books from certain pedigrees that have outstanding color you can see a deterioration in the color after a pressing.

It's a subtle thing, only noticeable in hand, but that sharp brightness, fresh off the stand look is diminished. I can only imagine that multiple pressings will completely destroy the freshness factor."

 

This is the first I've heard of this, and I've handled 1000's of high grade books, both pressed and not pressed. There has been no discernible difference or pattern that I've been able to see.

 

If you're going to feel like dying every time someone says something that may or may not be true about a comic book, you might want to hang out in the GA forum where people are more respectful of weaker hearts.

 

I stand by my statement. I've probably had 300 Pedigree submissions.

The few that I pressed lost 'some' of that brightness. I submit for my personal collection. I love the books, I stare at them. I know the difference.

I had a friend that submitted a non-ped but still beautiful copy of ASM 129 for pressing. First book he ever pressed. He said the same thing. The yellows were not quite as yellow. BTW, he got the grade he wanted.

 

You need to find a different person to press your books.

 

indeed!!!

[DiceX]

What depressed me was not the DD#7, but rather this statement from bomber-bob:

"... if you ever ever [sic] owned books from certain pedigrees that have outstanding color you can see a deterioration in the color after a pressing.

It's a subtle thing, only noticeable in hand, but that sharp brightness, fresh off the stand look is diminished. I can only imagine that multiple pressings will completely destroy the freshness factor."

 

This is the first I've heard of this, and I've handled 1000's of high grade books, both pressed and not pressed. There has been no discernible difference or pattern that I've been able to see.

 

If you're going to feel like dying every time someone says something that may or may not be true about a comic book, you might want to hang out in the GA forum where people are more respectful of weaker hearts.

 

I stand by my statement. I've probably had 300 Pedigree submissions.

The few that I pressed lost 'some' of that brightness. I submit for my personal collection. I love the books, I stare at them. I know the difference.

I had a friend that submitted a non-ped but still beautiful copy of ASM 129 for pressing. First book he ever pressed. He said the same thing. The yellows were not quite as yellow. BTW, he got the grade he wanted.

 

You need to find a different person to press your books.

 

Yeah, I'll call wildly_fanciful_statement on that statement unless he's getting them pressed by BHooks.

 

 

[batman_fan]

Ultimately where is this thread and the whole shrunken cover/expanded inner page issue going? I suspect this thread will drag on for a while before some inflammatory post are made at which point it will be locked. A few side topics will be posted which eventually digress to topic of hot girls in costumes from cons and eventually the whole topic dies. The crappy pressing will continue, grades will be bumped, people will make money, all is good within the world. The goose is safe and producing. That is until the next issue comes to light and then it will be a rinse/repeat cycle ...

[DiceX]

Ultimately where is this thread and the whole shrunken cover/expanded inner page issue going? I suspect this thread will drag on for a while before some inflammatory post are made at which point it will be locked. A few side topics will be posted which eventually digress to topic of hot girls in costumes from cons and eventually the whole topic dies. The crappy pressing will continue, grades will be bumped, people will make money, all is good within the world. The goose is safe and producing. That is until the next issue comes to light and then it will be a rinse/repeat cycle ...

 

This thread has already lasted about a month longer than I figured it would.

 

 

[VintageComics]

Ultimately where is this thread and the whole shrunken cover/expanded inner page issue going? I suspect this thread will drag on for a while before some inflammatory post are made at which point it will be locked. A few side topics will be posted which eventually digress to topic of hot girls in costumes from cons and eventually the whole topic dies. The crappy pressing will continue, grades will be bumped, people will make money, all is good within the world. The goose is safe and producing. That is until the next issue comes to light and then it will be a rinse/repeat cycle ...

 

This thread has already lasted about a month longer than I figured it would.

 

 

...and it's answered more questions than most expected it to.

 

 

[DiceX]

Ultimately where is this thread and the whole shrunken cover/expanded inner page issue going? I suspect this thread will drag on for a while before some inflammatory post are made at which point it will be locked. A few side topics will be posted which eventually digress to topic of hot girls in costumes from cons and eventually the whole topic dies. The crappy pressing will continue, grades will be bumped, people will make money, all is good within the world. The goose is safe and producing. That is until the next issue comes to light and then it will be a rinse/repeat cycle ...

 

This thread has already lasted about a month longer than I figured it would.

 

 

...and it's answered more questions than most expected it to.

 

 

That's a fact.

 

 

[Bomber-Bob]

What depressed me was not the DD#7, but rather this statement from bomber-bob:

"... if you ever ever [sic] owned books from certain pedigrees that have outstanding color you can see a deterioration in the color after a pressing.

It's a subtle thing, only noticeable in hand, but that sharp brightness, fresh off the stand look is diminished. I can only imagine that multiple pressings will completely destroy the freshness factor."

 

This is the first I've heard of this, and I've handled 1000's of high grade books, both pressed and not pressed. There has been no discernible difference or pattern that I've been able to see.

 

If you're going to feel like dying every time someone says something that may or may not be true about a comic book, you might want to hang out in the GA forum where people are more respectful of weaker hearts.

 

I stand by my statement. I've probably had 300 Pedigree submissions.

The few that I pressed lost 'some' of that brightness. I submit for my personal collection. I love the books, I stare at them. I know the difference.

I had a friend that submitted a non-ped but still beautiful copy of ASM 129 for pressing. First book he ever pressed. He said the same thing. The yellows were not quite as yellow. BTW, he got the grade he wanted.

 

You need to find a different person to press your books.

 

Yeah, I'll call wildly_fanciful_statement on that statement unless he's getting them pressed by BHooks.

 

 

Again, I stand by my statement. Call me a liar, I can't prove it to you anyway. Before the Shaves, if I told you I've seen covers shrink, you'd probably say no way. We've seen examples of White Mountain cover dates having a subtle smearing effect, again you would probably say no way. I'm not lobbying against pressing. I'm not calling anybody out. It's not even a big deal. I'm just saying I think it happens.

[DiceX]

What depressed me was not the DD#7, but rather this statement from bomber-bob:

"... if you ever ever [sic] owned books from certain pedigrees that have outstanding color you can see a deterioration in the color after a pressing.

It's a subtle thing, only noticeable in hand, but that sharp brightness, fresh off the stand look is diminished. I can only imagine that multiple pressings will completely destroy the freshness factor."

 

This is the first I've heard of this, and I've handled 1000's of high grade books, both pressed and not pressed. There has been no discernible difference or pattern that I've been able to see.

 

If you're going to feel like dying every time someone says something that may or may not be true about a comic book, you might want to hang out in the GA forum where people are more respectful of weaker hearts.

 

I stand by my statement. I've probably had 300 Pedigree submissions.

The few that I pressed lost 'some' of that brightness. I submit for my personal collection. I love the books, I stare at them. I know the difference.

I had a friend that submitted a non-ped but still beautiful copy of ASM 129 for pressing. First book he ever pressed. He said the same thing. The yellows were not quite as yellow. BTW, he got the grade he wanted.

 

You need to find a different person to press your books.

 

Yeah, I'll call wildly_fanciful_statement on that statement unless he's getting them pressed by BHooks.

 

 

Again, I stand by my statement. Call me a liar, I can't prove it to you anyway. Before the Shaves, if I told you I've seen covers shrink, you'd probably say no way. We've seen examples of White Mountain cover dates having a subtle smearing effect, again you would probably say no way. I'm not lobbying against pressing. I'm not calling anybody out. It's not even a big deal. I'm just saying I think it happens.

 

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that it doesn't happen unless you're getting your books pressed by someone who is completely clueless as to what they're doing.

There is no way that a book fades color when it's pressed. Ink smear, yes. Color fade, no.

 

I'm not calling you a liar, I think you're seeing what you want to see or believing what you want yourself to believe.

Pushing an agenda? Perhaps. But I don't think you're a liar.

 

 

[Bomber-Bob]

 

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that it doesn't happen unless you're getting your books pressed by someone who is completely clueless as to what they're doing.

There is no way that a book fades color when it's pressed. Ink smear, yes. Color fade, no.

 

I'm not calling you a liar, I think you're seeing what you want to see or believing what you want yourself to believe.

Pushing an agenda? Perhaps. But I don't think you're a liar.

 

 

In this thread, if I gave the name of the presser, then I would be pushing an agenda. No agenda, I probably shouldn't have mentioned it. Still, I stand by my statement.

[slym2none]

. In some cases, shrinkage can be minimized or corrected with a light pressing.

 

Would love to hear an explanation of this. I assume this means that CCS will roll the spine forward until the cover matches up with the pages again.

 

 

It'll be the M. Night Shyamalan of press jobs - it gets a twist!

 

 

 

-slym

[slym2none]

Fingerprints on the cover when the inks were wet are downgraded.

 

I just got a batch of books back. Not happy.

 

Amazing that when I submit books the back cover is the issue.

 

I didn't think CGC graded those anymore.

 

bob

 

*snort*

 

 

 

 

-slym

[MrBedrock]

What if it isn't restoration?

 

So if it isn't restoration, what is it? Not being contrary, just wondering what you would call it.

 

It seems like there is a huge stigma about "restored" books vs. "unrestored" books. So, is it that if pressing is called restoration, then there would be huge losses by people that have had most of their books pressed? If so, I can very much understand the concern as the amount of money in comics is significant.

 

It's hard to see a common ground that would satisfy most people if this is the case as disclosure implies stigma and stigma decreases value.

 

i'm not telling you that there aren't a few crusaders around here for whom that disclosure would be a deal-breaker, BUT...just check out the sales threads on these very boards, where the sellers openly disclose their books have been pressed. they sell in the neighborhood that you would expect a like-graded book to sell. often, they fly off the shelves. they sure do with me, if i need and like the book. and these boards are full of buyers "educated" on the pressing issue. i see no evidence of disclosure=decreased value.

 

This is because you collect books because actually LIKE comic books;)

I don't think the lack of disclosure has anything to do with a stigma that will prevent purists from buying, I think it's more likely got something to do with number chasing and enticing people to buy books so that they can maybe enhance the numbers.

 

Just my observation that the people who are "purists" seem to be way outweighed by the people looking to.. possibly increase their investment.

 

At least that is what I'm seeing here...where lots of people have learned about pressing and dry cleaning...

 

I will also bet that if you ask a dozen non boardies at a Con what they think about pressing, 5 of them will ask about irons and 5 will say "What?".

 

We may need a description which carries less bias. I'm a purist. I don't mind pressing. I've had books pressed. They are still pure after the process, purely flat as nature intended. They haven't been restored. They are just flat. Purely.

 

 

 

 

 

[jimjum12]

What if it isn't restoration?

 

So if it isn't restoration, what is it? Not being contrary, just wondering what you would call it.

 

It seems like there is a huge stigma about "restored" books vs. "unrestored" books. So, is it that if pressing is called restoration, then there would be huge losses by people that have had most of their books pressed? If so, I can very much understand the concern as the amount of money in comics is significant.

 

It's hard to see a common ground that would satisfy most people if this is the case as disclosure implies stigma and stigma decreases value.

 

i'm not telling you that there aren't a few crusaders around here for whom that disclosure would be a deal-breaker, BUT...just check out the sales threads on these very boards, where the sellers openly disclose their books have been pressed. they sell in the neighborhood that you would expect a like-graded book to sell. often, they fly off the shelves. they sure do with me, if i need and like the book. and these boards are full of buyers "educated" on the pressing issue. i see no evidence of disclosure=decreased value.

 

This is because you collect books because actually LIKE comic books;)

I don't think the lack of disclosure has anything to do with a stigma that will prevent purists from buying, I think it's more likely got something to do with number chasing and enticing people to buy books so that they can maybe enhance the numbers.

 

Just my observation that the people who are "purists" seem to be way outweighed by the people looking to.. possibly increase their investment.

 

At least that is what I'm seeing here...where lots of people have learned about pressing and dry cleaning...

 

I will also bet that if you ask a dozen non boardies at a Con what they think about pressing, 5 of them will ask about irons and 5 will say "What?".

 

We may need a description which carries less bias. I'm a purist. I don't mind pressing. I've had books pressed. They are still pure after the process, purely flat as nature intended. They haven't been restored. They are just flat. Purely.

 

 

 

 

 

I can't help it, I've just got to like you..... GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[rjrjr]

"Internal pressing company"? When looking on CGC web page I don't see this. I can email CGC and ask, but I'm sure some information is in this thread. It has just become very long now.

 

Is this company in CGC or does it have its own website?

 

Here's the CCS website: http://www.ccspaper.com/

 

The legalese is "in conjunction with":

"CCS offers its services in conjunction with CGC, which gives collectors and dealers a streamlined submission process that saves them both time and money."

 

All the companies in the Certified Collectibles Group are "independent members", independent business/tax entities. That doesn't mean CGC and CCS aren't marketing partners cross-serving a shared clientele.

"You may submit comic books if you are a paid member of the CGC Collectors Society".

"or submit through a CGC Authorized Member Dealer"

 

You know it's interesting, their example on their website shows the same phenomena that has been identified in this thread (expansion of the body beyond the cover) on an All Star 6:

 

http://www.ccspaper.com/work_examples.php

Also note the examples of books that have been "Un-Restored" to achieve a blue label, which everyone needs to know is different from a book that was never restored in the 1st place.

 

It's really time for CGC to step up and be honest about what these books have gone through before they gave them the blue label, whether it's pressing, dry cleaning, spine realignment, color touch removal, tear seal un-sealing, etc.,.. This is yet another perfect application of the "Pre-Grading Prepwork" label notes. (thumbs u

 

CGC should grade the book in front of them, period.

 

Asking them to deal differently with books that come from their sister company by adding verbiage to the label, when it won't happen for anyone else submitting books sounds more like a personal vendetta on your part against CCS than being an ombudsman for the hobby.

 

 

Agreed.

 

So, how did many of these books, which were obviously tampered with and are the focus of this thread, get grade bumps when they present poorer and are structurally poorer (staple stress) after the work? It's possible CCS didn't do the work or CGC wasn't aware of the work that was done by the sister company. The fact that some of us has doubts about the integrity of CGC with regards to this is really the problem here. Maybe this is why a relationship between CGC and CCS is a conflict of interest and should not exist.

[gaz973]

What if it isn't restoration?

 

So if it isn't restoration, what is it? Not being contrary, just wondering what you would call it.

 

It seems like there is a huge stigma about "restored" books vs. "unrestored" books. So, is it that if pressing is called restoration, then there would be huge losses by people that have had most of their books pressed? If so, I can very much understand the concern as the amount of money in comics is significant.

 

It's hard to see a common ground that would satisfy most people if this is the case as disclosure implies stigma and stigma decreases value.

 

i'm not telling you that there aren't a few crusaders around here for whom that disclosure would be a deal-breaker, BUT...just check out the sales threads on these very boards, where the sellers openly disclose their books have been pressed. they sell in the neighborhood that you would expect a like-graded book to sell. often, they fly off the shelves. they sure do with me, if i need and like the book. and these boards are full of buyers "educated" on the pressing issue. i see no evidence of disclosure=decreased value.

 

This is because you collect books because actually LIKE comic books;)

I don't think the lack of disclosure has anything to do with a stigma that will prevent purists from buying, I think it's more likely got something to do with number chasing and enticing people to buy books so that they can maybe enhance the numbers.

 

Just my observation that the people who are "purists" seem to be way outweighed by the people looking to.. possibly increase their investment.

 

At least that is what I'm seeing here...where lots of people have learned about pressing and dry cleaning...

 

I will also bet that if you ask a dozen non boardies at a Con what they think about pressing, 5 of them will ask about irons and 5 will say "What?".

 

We may need a description which carries less bias. I'm a purist. I don't mind pressing. I've had books pressed. They are still pure after the process, purely flat as nature intended. They haven't been restored. They are just flat. Purely.

 

They were restored to a previous flat appearance. (thumbs u