Cole Schave collection: face jobs?

[Bomber-Bob]

What's the realistic resolution folks would like to see here?

 

Brian, I suspect you have some ideas. Please lead the way. We need it.

[batman_fan]

I would like to see CGC change their policy like they did with tape, to help prevent this from happening.

 

I would like to see CGC grade the book in front of them based an the structural integrity and eye appeal and quit trying to guess at what is a production defect and what is post production.

 

I would also like to see them grade tape as what it is, restoration.

 

Lastly, I would like them to spend some effort on world peace (thumbs u

[MrBedrock]

What's the realistic resolution folks would like to see here?

I would like those who press to realize that there are limits to what they are capable of and limits to what the paper is capable of. They have now discovered one of the limits. Dial it back a bit.

[roulette44]

[skypinkblu]

I'd like to see them grade the book as it currently appears in front of them and close all loopholes caused by ignoring issues that "might" be from the original"manufacturing" process or might be from some kind of "natural" occurrence.

 

If the highest grade Magic Monster #1 is a 5.0 because there were chips at the time of manufacture, then that is the highest grade Magic Monster #1.

 

If this means changing the grading standards to avoid tampering or encouraging people to find ways around the current grading standards, I think it would help our hobby maintain a reputation of honesty that we need in order for it to continue and grow.

 

[roulette44]

I'd like to see them grade the book as it currently appears in front of them and close all loopholes caused by ignoring issues that "might" be from the original"manufacturing" process or might be from some kind of "natural" occurrence.

 

If the highest grade Magic Monster #1 is a 5.0 because there were chips at the time of manufacture, then that is the highest grade Magic Monster #1.

 

If this means changing the grading standards to avoid tampering or encouraging people to find ways around the current grading standards, I think it would help our hobby maintain a reputation of honesty that we need in order for it to continue and grow.

 

 

Interesting concept........ give ya that (thumbs u

What do they do about books graded under the current system (not RSRs or Costanzas.....just the 2M+ others?)

[skypinkblu]

I'd like to see them grade the book as it currently appears in front of them and close all loopholes caused by ignoring issues that "might" be from the original"manufacturing" process or might be from some kind of "natural" occurrence.

 

If the highest grade Magic Monster #1 is a 5.0 because there were chips at the time of manufacture, then that is the highest grade Magic Monster #1.

 

If this means changing the grading standards to avoid tampering or encouraging people to find ways around the current grading standards, I think it would help our hobby maintain a reputation of honesty that we need in order for it to continue and grow.

 

 

Interesting concept........ give ya that (thumbs u

What do they do about books graded under the current system (not RSRs or Costanzas.....just the 2M+ others?)

 

The same thing they did when they graded books that had tape, or when the head grader changed and the way the rules about water or stains were viewed changed with them.

 

The books they graded already are graded. It will be up to the next buyer to decide when they look at the book, and if they know to look at the dates, if they want it.The same way a buyer can decide to buy a raw book or a graded book.

 

Just so you know, I own a few fairly expensive graded books that have small pieces of tape, but I was all for the tape change once I had learned more about what was going on.

 

When I bought those books , I didn't really mind the tape. I might not mind a book that was previously graded either...but this issue of loopholes needs to stop. Even if NO ONE takes advantage of these "loopholes" there will still be the perception that, there are people who can enter an inner circle where someone will advise them what will pass go.

 

This is why I was disappointed when it became harder to read the graders notes.

The more transparency, the less chance of problems.

 

I think CGC has done great things for the hobby...I think the graders work hard...but sometimes rules need to be updated for many reasons.

[CatskillMike]

What's the realistic resolution folks would like to see here?

 

Fanned paged books shouldn't get 9.6's. Doesn't matter if it is natural or not. Wouldn't that solve all this?

 

What he said.

[seanfingh]

 

Did you just "What he said" your own post?

[thunsicker]

Did you just "What he said" your own post?

 

What he asked.

[Bomber-Bob]

What's the realistic resolution folks would like to see here?

 

Fanned paged books shouldn't get 9.6's. Doesn't matter if it is natural or not. Wouldn't that solve all this?

 

What he said.

 

That's pretty basic = doable. CGC would not have to guess if it's natural or manufactured, fanned pages don't enter into 9.6 territory. Just like with tape,

the existing slabs stay as is. I like it.

[Bomber-Bob]

I would like those who press to realize that there are limits to what they are capable of and limits to what the paper is capable of. They have now discovered one of the limits. Dial it back a bit.

 

Well said. +1 !!!

[thunsicker]

What's the realistic resolution folks would like to see here?

 

Fanned paged books shouldn't get 9.6's. Doesn't matter if it is natural or not. Wouldn't that solve all this?

 

What he said.

 

That's pretty basic = doable. CGC would not have to guess if it's natural or manufactured, fanned pages don't enter into 9.6 territory. Just like with tape,

the existing slabs stay as is. I like it.

 

I'd go one further. Grade the book as it sits in front of them. Don't worry if the shrunken cover, scuff, chip, etc. is or could be production or natural or introduced later and just downgrade for it no matter when or why it was introduced.

[Bomber-Bob]

What's the realistic resolution folks would like to see here?

 

Fanned paged books shouldn't get 9.6's. Doesn't matter if it is natural or not. Wouldn't that solve all this?

 

What he said.

 

That's pretty basic = doable. CGC would not have to guess if it's natural or manufactured, fanned pages don't enter into 9.6 territory. Just like with tape,

the existing slabs stay as is. I like it.

 

I'd go one further. Grade the book as it sits in front of them. Don't worry if the shrunken cover, scuff, chip, etc. is or could be production or natural or introduced later and just downgrade for it no matter when or why it was introduced.

 

Did you read much of this thread of late ? While I agree with you, there are many that argue that books with 'natural' defects should not be penalized.

These same folks may be willing to compromise on the 9.6 threshold.

[thunsicker]

What's the realistic resolution folks would like to see here?

 

Fanned paged books shouldn't get 9.6's. Doesn't matter if it is natural or not. Wouldn't that solve all this?

 

What he said.

 

That's pretty basic = doable. CGC would not have to guess if it's natural or manufactured, fanned pages don't enter into 9.6 territory. Just like with tape,

the existing slabs stay as is. I like it.

 

I'd go one further. Grade the book as it sits in front of them. Don't worry if the shrunken cover, scuff, chip, etc. is or could be production or natural or introduced later and just downgrade for it no matter when or why it was introduced.

 

Did you read much of this thread of late ? While I agree with you, there are many that argue that books with 'natural' defects should not be penalized.

These same folks may be willing to compromise on the 9.6 threshold.

 

I do understand that. And I agree that people will fight against such a big change. I personally just think that we're going from one crisis (facejobs) to the next (schave jobs) and we'll keep having these crises as long as there are flaws that are forgiven.

[Davenport]

I'd go one further. Grade the book as it sits in front of them. Don't worry if the shrunken cover, scuff, chip, etc. is or could be production or natural or introduced later and just downgrade for it no matter when or why it was introduced.

I've never understood how it got twisted so that comics have to relate to some Grading Scale, instead of the Grading Scale remaining related to the comics, a means of reflecting reality.

 

All that does is create an exploit.

 

What other manufactured goods are there where defective seconds and blemished product are given "a pass"?

 

I can't think of any. And comics are a mass-produced mechanical 'book' designed to move and close when operated. Print runs aren't some static work of art where however they come of the line 'is what the artist intended '. If the entire run was screwed up, let Grade reflect that reality.

[VintageComics]

I'd go one further. Grade the book as it sits in front of them. Don't worry if the shrunken cover, scuff, chip, etc. is or could be production or natural or introduced later and just downgrade for it no matter when or why it was introduced.

I've never understood how it got twisted so that comics have to relate to some Grading Scale, instead of the Grading Scale remaining related to the comics, a means of reflecting reality.

 

All that does is create an exploit.

 

What other manufactured goods are there where defective seconds and blemished product are given "a pass"?

 

I can't think of any. And comics are a mass-produced mechanical 'book' designed to move and close when operated. Print runs aren't some static work of art where however they come of the line 'is what the artist intended '. If the entire run was screwed up, let Grade reflect that reality.

 

One of the reasons it's been difficult to nail down an absolute grading scale for comics is because there really are so many more variables with comics than most other grade conscious hobbies - for example, coins and stamps are two dimensional...they have a front and a back...comics have numerous pages, covers of a different stock, inside vs. outside grading, can vary in paper quality from year to year or even month to month etc.

 

All of these variables multiply and make it exceedingly more difficult to nail down one absolute grading scale.

 

It's a relatively young hobby and evolving quickly though, especially now that big money is here.

 

 

[drbanner]

Looks like the buyer of the Close Shave Spidey 28 isn't a big fan of the Incredible Shrinking Cover Syndrome, the book is now listed on Clink...possible candidate for another quick squash and flip?

[Davenport]

I'd go one further. Grade the book as it sits in front of them. Don't worry if the shrunken cover, scuff, chip, etc. is or could be production or natural or introduced later and just downgrade for it no matter when or why it was introduced.

I've never understood how it got twisted so that comics have to relate to some Grading Scale, instead of the Grading Scale remaining related to the comics, a means of reflecting reality.

 

All that does is create an exploit.

 

What other manufactured goods are there where defective seconds and blemished product are given "a pass"?

 

I can't think of any. And comics are a mass-produced mechanical 'book' designed to move and close when operated. Print runs aren't some static work of art where however they come of the line 'is what the artist intended '. If the entire run was screwed up, let Grade reflect that reality.

 

One of the reasons it's been difficult to nail down an absolute grading scale for comics is because there really are so many more variables with comics than most other grade conscious hobbies - for example, coins and stamps are two dimensional...they have a front and a back...comics have numerous pages, covers of a different stock, inside vs. outside grading, can vary in paper quality from year to year or even month to month etc.

 

All of these variables multiply and make it exceedingly more difficult to nail down one absolute grading scale.

 

It's a relatively young hobby and evolving quickly though, especially now that big money is here.

 

True. But it didn't have to be that way. Comics are printed, not minted. A device, not an object.

 

Transitioning encapsulation over from coins to comics (along with their crack out game) included a host of arbitrary caveats. And if the 'History of Encapsulating Comics' is anything it's the history of watching caveats being exploited over, and over, and over...

 

Caveats are loopholes, and loopholes WILL be exploited. Simple as that. And here we are. Again.

[batman_fan]

Looks like the buyer of the Close Shave Spidey 28 isn't a big fan of the Incredible Shrinking Cover Syndrome, the book is now listed on Clink...possible candidate for another quick squash and flip?

 

A flipper guide to selling Close Shave books

1. Sell on a venue where you identity cant be determined

2. Make sure the posted scan are not too big

3. Adjust the lighting and color balance to mask the page poke through