Cole Schave collection: face jobs?

[Sqeggs]

Other people don't care because you don't know if the shrinking is from the poor pressing or a natural occurrence and heck, the number in the upper left hand corner is bigger so that's more money.

 

This is utter BS. Not a single person has said it's OK, so let's stop perpetuating this untruth.

 

 

Well, the fact that the grades on most of these books went up seems to indicate that CGC thinks it's ok. That despite the evidence presented in this thread that the problem was introduced by pressing, PL indicates they don't intend to change their grading criteria also indicates they think it's ok.

[VintageComics]

Other people don't care because you don't know if the shrinking is from the poor pressing or a natural occurrence and heck, the number in the upper left hand corner is bigger so that's more money.

 

This is utter BS. Not a single person has said it's OK, so let's stop perpetuating this untruth.

 

 

Well, the fact that the grades on most of these books went up seems to indicate that CGC thinks it's ok. That despite the evidence presented in this thread that the problem was introduced by pressing, PL indicates they don't intend to change their grading criteria also indicates they think it's ok.

 

Again, I'll repeat myself - it should be clear that I meant anyone posting in this thread besides CGC or CCS employees. Obviously they are OK with it.

 

[DiceX]

Books were trimmed after they have been folded.

 

Here's a pic of the Spartan Printing Company, circa 1977.

 

The guy is operating the trimming machine.

 

I wonder what ever happened to that guy?

In the age of the internet maybe he can be found and we can ask him what the hands on process was? Did he trim or not trim?

If not him, then try to find a similar employee who worked in that time period to answer the questions.

 

That's exactly where my information comes from. Someone who stood right there and worked on the equipment and produced these comics we're currently discussing.

I worked with the guy for 10 years and talked to him at length about this.

 

It's like I'm just standing here talking and nobody listens to mess I'm saying. I'm invisible or something.

 

 

[VintageComics]

It's like I'm just standing here talking and nobody listens to mess I'm saying. I'm invisible or something.

 

 

You don't have a pitchfork.

[DrWatson]

DiceX[/color]]

DiceX[/color]]Books were trimmed after they have been folded.

 

Here's a pic of the Spartan Printing Company, circa 1977.

 

The guy is operating the trimming machine.

 

I wonder what ever happened to that guy?

In the age of the internet maybe he can be found and we can ask him what the hands on process was? Did he trim or not trim?

If not him, then try to find a similar employee who worked in that time period to answer the questions.

That's exactly where my information comes from. Someone who stood right there and worked on the equipment and produced these comics we're currently discussing.

I worked with the guy for 10 years and talked to him at length about this.

 

It's like I'm just standing here talking and nobody listens to mess I'm saying. I'm invisible or something.

Who posted what?

 

[slym2none]

If the cutting blade is perfectly horizontal to the table

 

Yes, the chop is straight down. The blade is flat on one side and angled on the other.

 

 

But the blade itself has a slight angle to it in relation to the horizontal plane of the table, correct? Such that there is a leading and a trailing edge as it intersects with the table.

 

The attached pic shows what I mean by the blade has an angle on one side.

The blade in relation to the table is perfectly square. It strikes the entire surface of the book at the same time.

 

 

Thank you!

 

 

 

-slym

[thehumantorch]

Books were trimmed after they have been folded.

 

Here's a pic of the Spartan Printing Company, circa 1977.

 

The guy is operating the trimming machine.

 

I wonder what ever happened to that guy?

In the age of the internet maybe he can be found and we can ask him what the hands on process was? Did he trim or not trim?

If not him, then try to find a similar employee who worked in that time period to answer the questions.

 

 

That's exactly where my information comes from. Someone who stood right there and worked on the equipment and produced these comics we're currently discussing.

I worked with the guy for 10 years and talked to him at length about this.

 

It's like I'm just standing here talking and nobody listens to mess I'm saying. I'm invisible or something.

 

 

Anyone seen DiceX lately? It's been awhile since he last posted. :shrug:

[BlowUpTheMoon]

BTW: I grabbed that B&W photo from this thread --> 1977 Sparta Press Tour Film Footage. Get a glimpse how comic books were made.

[slym2none]

That single detail (why the top peeks out more than the bottom) has been the one question everyone I've spoken to does not have an answer to.

 

Ah - I guess this is the reason I got no response when I brought up the same thing twice in this thread.

 

(thumbs u

 

 

 

-slym

[Logan510]

It's like I'm just standing here talking and nobody listens to mess I'm saying. I'm invisible or something.

 

 

You don't have a pitchfork.

 

Plus, he's mean

[DiceX]

Your attention please! (Emphasized since nobody listens to me)

 

I work with a guy who lives in Sparta and is going home tonight after work for the weekend.

He knows several people who worked on the bindery lines during the day and is willing to get our questions answered for us.

You guys start a list of questions and bounce it around for a few hours. I'll pick it up and organize it into a coherent list and give it to him.

He'll get the questions answered and bring the list back on Monday night and I'll share his findings with everyone.

 

PS. You're welcome.

 

 

[Silver Surfer]

Your attention please! (Emphasized since nobody listens to me)

 

I work with a guy who lives in Sparta and is going home tonight after work for the weekend.

He knows several people who worked on the bindery lines during the day and is willing to get our questions answered for us.

You guys start a list of questions and bounce it around for a few hours. I'll pick it up and organize it into a coherent list and give it to him.

He'll get the questions answered and bring the list back on Monday night and I'll share his findings with everyone.

 

PS. You're welcome.

 

 

Did he stack his comics in 7 foot high piles? Was it humid where he lives and did it shrink the covers? Does he specifically collect books with indented staples?

[Aces]

 

How'd that get 9.4 with a dust shadow that bad?

 

-This is in reply to aa post 200 posts ago

[slym2none]

For Chris (Beyonder) as promised.

 

I removed the CGC labels because I didn't think it was fair to post them on books that I no longer own. Some books were pressed, some weren't and some were bought in the holder, so unknown history. Nothing out of the ordinary on these books - until this thread popped up.

 

There is still nothing out of the ordinary on those books

 

I agree - they all show small things, a little peekthrough, a little overhang at the top, a little fanning, but not the (relatively) gross amounts of those things seen on the Close Shave books.

 

 

 

-slym

[skypinkblu]

I listened, I even watched the videos. I asked a question...how were the covers added, since they were different paper stock.?

 

You ignored me

 

I have a 2nd question, why were some of the books listed in Overstreet and on comic.org as saddlestitched, and some not.?

 

I'm glad you typed in a color though, I'm proud of you:)

 

Now the other reason people are not paying attention, might be...because these books did not shrink over the ages, they were shrunk over a brief period of time...that is the issue in this thread...

 

but your information is very interesting.

 

Thank you

[greggy]

He ignored you because he can.

[DiceX]

how were the covers added, since they were different paper stock.?

 

You ignored me

 

In the video you notice that pieces of the books fall onto the chain as the book travels toward the cutter. The very last "pocket" drops a cover onto the chain. The same as any other piece of the book.

I've never ignored you in my life. All this went down while I was getting ready for work and I just missed it.

 

why were some of the books listed in Overstreet and on comic.org as saddlestitched, and some not.?

 

I don't know. Every book with staples through the center is a "saddlestitched" book.

 

 

[Sqeggs]

Given those two scans at any point between 2000 when CGC brought page quality to the forefront and a month ago before this thread, I bet most people would have picked the Costanza'ed book simply because the page quality was better.

Why do you keep implying that before this thread, nobody cared about this defect? I sure did, and I bet most people would pick the better looking copy, which is not the one with the shrunken cover. And that includes 'ole Cole himself, since, as Doug told us, he went after books with "superior structure, centering and presentation". I mean, who wouldn't?

 

I'm not speaking for F_F but I have to agree with him. I've never heard a single person mention "peekthrough / overhang" as a problem before this thread started in all the years I've been here. Not one.

 

Is there a single post on this entire chat forum that references it pre this thread? Even one?

 

Now, after this thread has started I have customers asking me if the book they bought was a Cole Schave-treatment book. The answer is and will stay a unequivocal "HELL NO".

 

 

I would say the many references to "centering" over the years could have referred not just to whether the front cover image was centered properly on the cover or whether the book had a miswrap or miscut but also could have referred to page fanning -- but it would clearly depend on the book discussed.

 

In any event, there seems to be a consensus that the CS books exhibit this problem to an extent rarely seen before. I find it hard to credit that people looking at these books wouldn't have noticed the problem without being prodded by this thread.

[ComicConnoisseur]

Your attention please! (Emphasized since nobody listens to me)

 

I work with a guy who lives in Sparta and is going home tonight after work for the weekend.

He knows several people who worked on the bindery lines during the day and is willing to get our questions answered for us.

You guys start a list of questions and bounce it around for a few hours. I'll pick it up and organize it into a coherent list and give it to him.

He'll get the questions answered and bring the list back on Monday night and I'll share his findings with everyone.

 

PS. You're welcome.

 

Did they manually trim comic books?

 

[slym2none]

Fair enough.

 

My thesis is based on the fact that people starting saying that peekthrough should be downgraded for. That set off my warning bells because I have noticed that most SA books have peek through.

 

My thesis is two fold...I think...I'm not very good at this thesis thing.

 

A) if we begin to downgrade for artificially produced Costanza covers, what is the real reason we are downgrading? Because they deserve to be downgraded based on eye appeal or because we are trying to prevent someone from tampering in the future. If it's because we are trying to prevent tampering is that a good reason to change grading standards?

 

B) if we decide to downgrade peekthrough based on eye appeal (something that was never even a thought at CGC before this thread), is there the possibility that all of our books end up looking like that in 100 years? Do we have an obligation to send in our slightly peekingthrough, graded in 2001 CGC 9.8 for a regrade to get a 9.2 or a 9.4 in the year 2078 because the cover has shrunken in the holder?

 

I'd like to know more about how paper shrinks, why it shrinks and if it is going to continue to shrink before I can decide whether peekthrough is worth downgrading for.

 

No Oz. No curtain.

 

Added something in boldface. I have seen enough people in this thread say that they never want and/or will not buy books with the "Costanza" look to them to confidently add that to your post.

 

(thumbs u

 

 

 

-slym