FF 3

[Red Hook]

[esquirecomics]

And Ewert and Brulato and Storms are more than happy to file a lawsuit against me. Okay? How long are you dopes gonna' dance around the maypole?

 

Besides, there's nothing wrong with pressing, right? So why the hysteria?

 

I'll represent you if they do. I'd love the opportunity to question them during depositions about their selling practices. Truth is the ultimate defense in a libel case.

[Abrams-migration]

AWESOME!! Glad to be of assistance.

[Red Hook]

And just so we don't get any wet undies in this thread......the badge is for having the good eye to spot that the two books were the same..... and not for nailing anyone, as Donut is trying to twist this into.

[uclapeterg]

And of course, what I said is so much different than what was posted in this thread before I even started reading it......

 

Abrams: I suspect that this book has been slighty trimmed along the bottom edge.

 

Jeffreykli: If it's the same book, then the bottom edge has been trimmed.

 

JiveTurkeyMofo: I think he is right...the bottom edge appears different.

 

sfilosa: I would definitely expect that the book had been pressed.

 

TomMurname: It is obviously trimmed. No "ifs" about it.

 

Burntboy: That bottom edge "business" on the left corner seems to have been mostly trimmed away and is now absolutely straight.

 

So Donut, anything you want to say to me, you can say right here in the thread. I stand by my opinion. I never said who did what. It's the dealers responsibility to practice due diligence when making purchases like this. I don't go looking through Bob's books looking for "suspects". I did not start this thread. I examined the scans very closely and gave my opinion.

 

You should be the last one going ethical and moralistic on someone. You're full of it. Have fun at the pool.

 

Don't forget...

 

Uclapeterg: Isn't it better/easier to either call or e-mail Bob about this book FIRST?

[Aman619]

I'm all-in with Hook on this. He didnt start the thread, and wasnt screaming for anyones head. Just working with scans and pointing out what he sees. If you aske me what I think happened with this book, It was graded Qualified by Ewert or someone before Ewert. IMO, Ewert had it fixed and regraded. (I have no facts...) Storms either bought it as an 8.5 or traded for it. And Bob put it on his website where Detective Abrams saw it and remembered the book ans a 9.0Q

 

As to whether someone should have called or emailed Bob to spare him any embarrassment here is debatable. I dont have a problem with the boards serving as a community bulletin board for occasions like this. The gray area would be, If I am Bob, if any of us talking about the book, or bringing up the subject were friends or customers of Bob and they came here first instead of a simple personal heads up to Bob. If I were Bob, THAT would pissss me off. And in general Im sure wouldnt want to see my business dragged thru the mud here either for whatever reason. But I dont think its reasonable for a perfect stranger to call Bob instead of posting here.

 

I dont see Bob as more than a potential victim here, but have faith he will sort it out...

[Red Hook]

[blazingbob]

What isn't clear that I PURCHASED the book. Do you need a cancelled check?

 

It wasn't traded for, it's not a consignment book.

 

It's off the site, I've already spoken to Steve who somehow is responding to CGC email on Sunday just like I've wasted an hour of my day off responding to this thread.

 

This could have easily been handled by Detective Abrahms sending me a PM which would have resulted in the same thing, me pulling the book and sending emails to CGC and the person I purchased it from. Now, instead of a quiet transaction where I will have a nice calm refund there will be agendas tossed around and comments about lambs to slaughter by the evil dealers that sell CGC books. Instead of a supposedly straight forward Lawyer/dealer acting like a grown up I see ridiculous statements of support against a lawsuit I had no intention of filing.

 

Normally the "police" operate under a innocent until proven guilty. I believe evidence is gathered first. Normally they speak to the "suspect". However, this "police" force seems to come in with "He's guilty because we say so". It's no wonder very few dealers bother to respond on this site.

[Red Hook]

So shall we assume the book was altered?

[Rip]

However, this "police" force seems to come in with "He's guilty because we say so".

Again I don't think anyone is saying YOUR guilty

[Aman619]

But Bob, the Board 'Police' is a manner of speech, Its more like Board Vigilante justice just like our comicbook heroes. Batman never asks permission to look into 'crimes' does he? I know youre not happy about this.... who would be? - - but I dont hear anone accusing you. So, sure its a hassle on a Sunday, at least you know what youve got and can straighten it out. Buy Detective Abrams a donut (not that Donut!) and lets movce on.

[batman_fan]

Bob,

 

I love your reply, keep it quite so the person you bought it from can try to dump it on some other unsuspecting collector. No thank you, keep it in the open, let everyone know about the book so no one gets screwed on that book again. I think it is the whole "keep it quiet so no one knows" attitude that helps make people start to wonder. I hope you can get it all worked out, but making sure people know what went on definitely take the uncertainty out of the whole situation. If CGC screwed up, I want to know about it. If a dealer screwed up or did something less than ethical, I want to know about it. The same way I want to know if my car manufacturer behaved in a similiar manner.

 

Greg

[sfilosa]

Just for the record, Bob, I think you are doing the right thing. That said, I was also saying that when YOU PURCHASED the book, you RELIED on CGC.

 

I see no fault of yours, if you decided to sell it as a Universal CGC 8.5.

 

FOOTNOTE:

 

I actually mentioned this post to Doug Schmell today. He told me it USE to be his book and was ORIGINALLY a Universal CGC 9.0. He then resubmitted the book, hoping for a 9.2, and THEN it came back CGC 9.0 Qualified (staples cleaned). So apparently CGC missed that the first time. Just adds a little more intrique to this book. Either way it's a beauty and the fact that the supposed pressing, cleaning of staples and trimming has actually DECREASED the GRADE just screams out GO FIGURE!

[Red Hook]

I just got off the phone with Bob and we had a very productive phone call. I did apologize for the tone of my previous post.....and I am assured that Bob was acting in good faith throughout the transaction he made when purchasing the book. And I appreciate the fact that he got on the phone to discuss the situation.

 

I did mention to him that I was simply adding my opinion to an already existing thread, that I don't have a vendetta and that I am simply and strongly taking the side of the buyer. I did not infer that Bob had done anything wrong....from my end it's less important to assign responsiblity than it is to just keep the buyer from ending up with a book that may not be what it claims to be.

 

I think there are dealers out there getting bitten in the asss right now too. It's a very tricky time to be trafficking in high grade books. The temptation for someone, somewhere along the line to slip one by is great. Add to that the variance in grading and you can have a pretty confusing situtation. Look at this book. It apparently has been submitted multiple times with three different outcomes.

 

Anyway, again it was good to talk to Bob in person. It will be interesting to see if any further explanations about the varying grading results are forthcoming.

 

Red

[sfilosa]

I think there are dealers out there getting bitten in the asss right now too. It's a very tricky time to be trafficking in high grade books. The temptation for someone, somewhere along the line to slip one by is great. Add to that the variance in grading and you can have a pretty confusing situtation.

 

Still much, much better than the pre CGC days.

 

But obviously not perfect.

[uclapeterg]

However, this "police" force seems to come in with "He's guilty because we say so".

Again I don't think anyone is saying YOUR guilty

 

But what I got was that whether Bob performed the work or not, people were inferring that he's "guilty" for having the book on his site in the first place.

[Abrams-migration]

Bob,

In no way was the post intended to cause you any greif. Your problem is with the seller of the book especially if he was the person who purchased this from Heritage.

[Red Hook]

Bob did mention that he doesn't have the time to check to see if books previously sold on Heritage or elsewhere. I said that in the case of a book that's worth a couple grand, it might be worth taking the five minutes or so to do it.

 

I'd also be very happy to run the ocassional quickie research check for any of our fave dealers at no charge. Privately of course. And I mean it.

 

The bottom line is, either you agree that a blue label from CGC is a passing grade on a book, or it's back to square one. In the case of this book.....if it had been pressed, frankly it's not an issue with most dealers. It's the possiblity of the trim that's disconcerting to both seller and buyer, if it is so. I've bought the fact that CGC accepts professional pressing as ok ( I don't personally ) but I know they don't accept trimming, and I assume they would catch it.

[esquirecomics]

Normally the "police" operate under a innocent until proven guilty. I believe evidence is gathered first. Normally they speak to the "suspect". However, this "police" force seems to come in with "He's guilty because we say so". It's no wonder very few dealers bother to respond on this site.

 

I wished I Iived in that society? Where is that exactly? Boy, if you knew what I knew about how the govt really works.

 

Bob, maybe now - having apparently been victimized yourself by an unscrupulous seller who only desired to increase their own profit margin - will be more sympathetic to those of us who care/advocate about ensuring disclosure and honesty in the marketplace.

 

Good for you for doing the proper thing after finding out the book's history. Sorry you had to experience this problem first hand and I hope you get your money refunded, as it should be and would be were it me.

[krazykat-migration]

WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I never thought I would see the day where the playing field was so levelled, that even big dealers are getting "burnt". I remember in 1998 when I unloaded my comic collection that I was horrofied to learn how many of my comic books were restored unbeknownst to me. It is sad that the hobby has changes so little despite the introduction of CGC.

 

I am saddened to learn that such a nice fellow as Bob Storms is screwed. What recourse does Bob really have???

 

Is Heritage liable for selling the book?

CGC does not warrant against detecting all restoration.

Bob's seller is probably liable but is he a bonafide purchaser for value?

 

This looks like a Mexican standoff to me because there is no evidence as to who commited the fraud.

 

This is the problem with comic boooks in general. No amount of policing is going to be able to enforce all these discrepancies 10 or 15 years time horizon.

 

The only reason that somebody even got caught is because they tried to restore,and flip the book in such a short time frame. They should have waited a few years so they didn't get caught.

 

How many of these Franken-books are in the comic bloodstream???

 

Sigh

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MAKE MINE MARVEL !!!! OA RULES !!!!