FF 3

[tth2]

I didn`t mean to imply in my previous post that Doug was aware of any funny business with one of the books on his site. Apparently he has been taken advantage of by the same consignors that took advantage of Bob. The books below are from the same submission as the FF 3.

 

Red is too sick with revulsion right now to post this, so I`ll do it. Unlike the FF 3, this time there was a significant jump in grade, with clear evidence of pressing and worse, trimming. The trimming is very subtle, but compare the bottom edges.

 

Tom Brulato & Jason Ewert = Danny Dupchek

 

[Red Hook]

I did call Doug about a book on his site, that was from the same submission group as the FF3 that Bob had on his site. He was concerned (as was Bob) and has removed the book from his site for now, pending the answers to some calls he has put in. Doug and Bob are both very much on the up and up on this.

 

As I said to Doug....if we end up having to keep an eye out in order to safeguard our favorite dealers, so be it.

 

That's all I am going to say....if Doug wants to come on at some point and add more, I'll leave that up to him.

 

B

[tth2]

And Ewert and Brulato and Storms are more than happy to file a lawsuit against me. Okay? How long are you dopes gonna' dance around the maypole?

 

Besides, there's nothing wrong with pressing, right? So why the hysteria?

 

I'll represent you if they do. I'd love the opportunity to question them during depositions about their selling practices. Truth is the ultimate defense in a libel case.

Hey Mark, I think your opportunity just presented itself.

[uclapeterg]

I thought about buying that book!

[Rip]

 

Another reason why I love these boards

 

I think some [embarrassing lack of self control] is about to hit the fan!!

[Ze-man]

you guys need to get off Reds . he isn't passing judgement - just passing out FACTS. ...........

 

Aww man, here I thought I was Brad's lapdog, can I at least still be the lickschpittle?

 

Tricksy thread ya got going here fellas. It was a surprisingly fast 5 page read,and sure does bring to fore many of the hot button topics that lately seem to surround comics, money, and CGC.

 

And to B. Bob, thnx for sticking around these boards even though we shine the flashlight in every corner,no matter who it might involve. Sure sometimes things are best kept between gentleman. But as a consumer in todays market, too much information is never a bad thing. So I hope you can see how threads(in this case your book) like this need to be passed around freely, not kept under the table. Not to flame wild rumours, or accusations. But rather to let as many facts be seen clearly after all of the dust settles.

 

 

Ze-

 

 

[Red Hook]

For the record, Doug did not reveal who the consignor was. All I noted was that the FF10 was from the same submission group as the FF3.

[joe_collector]

Is anyone else disgusted that these HG early Silver books are being literally destroyed in pursuit of the almighty dollar? This was happening pre-CGC, but I remember hearing that the move away from undisclosed resto was one of the main benefits of CGC.

 

Doesn't seem to be happening, and it's just started a whole new wave of "undetectable to CGC' restoration. This is just getting stupid.

 

Just imagine how many "restored from raw" books, that no one can cross-reference, are out there sitting in HG CGC Universal slabs?

[sfilosa]

Steve, enough with the pressing. Think outside the box for a minute. How about if all or most of the books in this submission were TRIMMED?

 

I`ll leave it for Brad to provide the next revelation, but perhaps you should ask your bud Doug about one of the books on his site which apparently came from the same submission and which also appears to be trimmed?

 

Brad took care of it, eventhough I said I would call Doug. Obviously a call to Steve Borock is where this needs to lead (and maybe to Heritage to see who bought the books from them).

 

I bring up the PRESSING issue simply because I CAN SEE that certain stress lines have been pressed out which is why the grade WOULD / SHOULD improve.

 

I can not see why the bottom edge was trimmed, especially for the subtle amount that was done. The pressing would have taken out the bump by the left side of the spine.

 

Please don't think I wouldn't want a complete explanation. I'm just trying not to ACCUSE anyone at this time.

[Darthdiesel]

I hope everyone leaves the HG Gold and Silver slab chase as a result of this and puts their $$$ back into the lowly Modern slabs, of which I have a considerable supply

[Darthdiesel]

they did get that unsightly spinal ding out of the 8.5 tho and what's with Reed's face on this cover? like he just swallowed a bite of a poop sandwich ?

[Red Hook]

The facts are that Steve doesn't have to say anything if he so chooses, and Heritage is under no obligation to tell anyone anything regarding who bought what.

 

All this comes down to imho, is that if you are going to chase uber-grade books, you better be aware of the risks involved. Remember....

 

- CGC is not infallible. (They'll be the first to tell you.)

 

- Greed corrupts. (Or the lure of the challenge to beat the system, whichever one......think of it as hackers trying to break down the latest computer security software.)

 

- The buyers need help. Lots of it.

[Red Hook]

they did get that unsightly spinal ding out of the 8.5 tho and what's with Reed's face on this cover? like he just swallowed a bite of a poop sandwich ?

 

If you knew anything about SA, you Modern Tool Boy.....you would know that Doom switches bodies with Reed in this issue! It is one of my favorite covers!

[joe_collector]

Does anyone remember back when I explained how trimmers got away with murder in the sportscard market and would take those same techniques to the CGC table, or how there is laser technology that can trim micrometers off a page, with virtually no way to detect it?

 

Do you also remember me getting insulted, ridiculed and laughed at, with the apologists screaming that "there was no way to fool CGC's resto detection".

 

We already know of SeeKay doing it, as well as that guy who "dry roasted" his edge trims to make them look aged.. now this pile of trimmed crapola... and these are just the ones we know about.

 

P.S. I will be accepting apologies via PM for the remainder of the day.

[Darthdiesel]

If you knew anything about SA, you Modern Tool Boy

 

I know enough not to chase uber-HG copioes for $1000's

 

.....you would know that Doom switches bodies with Reed in this issue!

 

so your saying Doom likes eating poop sandwiches?

 

 

see you in Balto...I'll have to ask Mark Esq. to plan the seating for the forum dinner like he would seat a wedding with remarried stepfamilies still going through a bitter divorce and custody battles

 

btw, scanboy, i'm gonna have to ask for your expertise on this 9.8 MSH 8 I just got which I bought for $150 but it looks just like a 9.6 that sold for $10 with vig on heritage 2 auctions ago. I'm thinking someone pressed and trimmed the edges on it and CT'd the black spidey costume on the cover and tried to pull a fast one on me. I'll send you the scans then I'm gonna kick rocketeer's butt at the forum dinner...or not...based on your research results. This modern buyer needs protection, beeyotch!

[Darthdiesel]

P.S. I will be accepting apologies via PM for the remainder of the day.

 

I'll be first to openly admit that........

 

 

 

 

 

.....I remember that thread! I'll be spending some time now looking for frickin' lasers on ebay...i've got some edges that need trimming...umm, hedges...did I let that slip?

[sfilosa]

The facts are that Steve doesn't have to say anything if he so chooses, and Heritage is under no obligation to tell anyone anything regarding who bought what.

 

All this comes down to imho, is that if you are going to chase uber-grade books, you better be aware of the risks involved. Remember....

 

- CGC is not infallible. (They'll be the first to tell you.)

 

- Greed corrupts. (Or the lure of the challenge to beat the system, whichever one......think of it as hackers trying to break down the latest computer security software.)

 

- The buyers need help. Lots of it.

 

 

Let's take a step back.

 

1) I'm not sure the buyer really needs as much help as you think. Even if someone was pretty sure the book(s) had been trimmed, it would be easy to sell the book in another venue (say eBay or a Convention). Once again, the buyer RELIED on CGC and their abiltiy to detect restoration.

 

2) I DO believe that CGC and Steve Borock need to research this (with the help of Heritage). They don't have to discuss it with board members but I'm sure CGC is MORE CONCERNED then we are.

 

3) There is NOT ONE INVESTMENT in the world that doesn't have RISK. I'M a CPA (but no longer in Auditing) and I can tell you, no matter how much one knows, there will be MISTAKES. CPA firms give a "GOOD HOUSEKEEPING" seal to Financial Statements to companies everday, and as we all know from the HEADLINES (i.e. Enron, Worldcom, etc.) mistakes / errors are made (and on a MUCH BIGGER SCALE then the Comic Market).

 

Just like CPA firms will do, CGC needs to learn from their mistakes.

[Fan4Fan]

 

Another reason why I love these boards

 

I think some [embarrassing lack of self control] is about to hit the fan!!

 

This will crack the 'net in half!

 

Wait...

 

Wrong summer blockbuster...

 

[Red Hook]

 

1) I'm not sure the buyer really needs as much help as you think. Even if someone was pretty sure the book(s) had been trimmed, it would be easy to sell the book in another venue (say eBay or a Convention). Once again, the buyer RELIED on CGC and their abiltiy to detect restoration.

 

 

Your other two points I can live with Steve, but not this one. So you're saying that as long as the gift keeps on giving ... ie. it's okay to just pass it along? Good Lord, that's a pretty dismal scenario. I'm not concerned about the liquidity of the book as much as the unethical nature of what is going down, and about the disrespect shown to these cool books that made it down the time tunnel for over 40 years, and then got disfigured in 2005.

 

So are you saying that if one of these books came to you, and you found out it was trimmed, that you'd just pop it up on Ebay without a word, or sell it to one of your fellow boardies? If it came to me and I found out that he knew what he was selling me, it would richochet back off the head of the guy who fobbed it on me so fast he'd just about have time to dial 911 for the trauma team.

 

My (unrealistic) dream would be for an 8.5 to be allowed to remain a much loved, much valued 8.5. I'm scooping up Green Rivers as much from a conservationist perspective as I am from a collecting perspective. After the Daredevil 9.4/9.6 debacle, OVER 18 months ago.....I figured I'd do my bit to save a few books from the Ministry of Greed.

 

And Darth, I couldn't think of a pleasanter dinner than if Mark seated me right between you and Donut. I am truly looking forward to meeting you guys in person.

[Rocketeer]

.....btw, scanboy, i'm gonna have to ask for your expertise on this 9.8 MSH 8 I just got which I bought for $150 but it looks just like a 9.6 that sold for $10 with vig on heritage 2 auctions ago. I'm thinking someone pressed and trimmed the edges on it and CT'd the black spidey costume on the cover and tried to pull a fast one on me. I'll send you the scans then I'm gonna kick rocketeer's butt at the forum dinner...or not...based on your research results. This modern buyer needs protection, beeyotch!

...A.)...How did I get involved in this?

...2.)...I will not be attending the Forum Dinner that evening,...but will be around for you to kick my butt,..

 

and D.)...If you want a true MSHSW #8 9.8 white I suggest you buy this from me now before I list it on Ebay this Thurs,...