Grader Notes

[toro]

So umm, when The CGC finally gets sick of all this and all of us and shuts the forum down, what bar do we hang out at next?

[Boba]

.. but I laugh every time I see JCVD dancing away.

Thank you BTW, who is JCVD

[Transplant]

Could you please delete this? I'm of the opinion that the mods will be searching for any plausible reason to give this thread the smackdown.

[Boba]

So umm, when The CGC finally gets sick of all this and all of us and shuts the forum down, what bar do we hang out at next?

My vote is the Ear Inn (thumbs u

[Mike's Rack]

Don't take the position that you know what you're talking about and quit making assumptions.

 

It's a property rights issue governed by definitions and terms under copyright law and state contracts. The definitions and terms of an alleged non-exclusive license are paramount around a service which is clearly a work for hire. CGC's position is without merit or legal basis.

 

1. There is no such creature, other than in a comic board chat room, as an irrevocable non-exclusive license en perpetuity without consideration.

2. The submitter has all rights surrounding his property and how its used.

3. The property owner has the right to say no to the use of any derivative anytime he wants - and the notes are derivatives based on his property.

4. The notes are part of a process he paid for - they were created to support the grade of his book/ property. That was created for him and no one else.

5. The company was paid by him.

6. CGC has the right to control access to CGC products but have no interest or rights in the property (because they've been paid under clearly expressed terms).

7. The use of legal mumbo jumbo without merit or basis does not grant a license, either expressed or implied by conduct - especially where commerce is concerned.

 

Please also see:

 

Fair Use

Elements of the state based contract

Negligent Misrepresentation (Tort)

Material Concealment (Tort)

I hate to step into the middle of this discussion because I don't really care about this and I don't know if I want to expend the energy responding. However, I am struggling with this unsupported assertion - "clearly a work for hire". I'll admit I haven't practiced property law in several years, and then not for very long. But, remembering back to my law school days, work for hire is not the default for work of this type. The criteria to designate a work as work for hire are very strict. As Wikipedia reminds us "On the other hand, if the work is created by an independent contractor or freelancer, the work may be considered a work for hire only if all of the following conditions are met:

 

the work must come within one of the nine limited categories of works listed in the definition above, namely (1) a contribution to a collective work, (2) a part of a motion picture or other audiovisual work, (3) a translation, (4) a supplementary work, (5) a compilation, (6) an instructional text, (7) a test, (8) answer material for a test, (9) an atlas;

the work must be specially ordered or commissioned;

there must be a written agreement between the parties specifying that the work is a work made for hire

In other words, mutual agreement that a work is a work for hire is not enough."

 

I conceed element two is met. But what about elements one and three? I'll admit that I don't think I actually read the terms of my contract with CGC when I submitted books, but I doubt the contract that they drafted would serve to limit their rights.

 

Also, rights can be contracted away. You mentioned consideration before but there is clearly consideration in a contract with CGC. I am baffled by your claim that CGC has no rights to the notes. However, I come with an open mind so I am willing to be enlightened.

[Mxwll Smrt]

Thanks for the subtle dismissiveness and passive aggressive tones - so pleasant. We're all trying to understand the merit and legal basis for CGC's "irrevocable non-exclusive right en perpetuity without consideration" to a derivative product created specifically by an expressed agreement counselor.

 

 

[crassus]

Don't take the position that you know what you're talking about and quit making assumptions.

 

It's a property rights issue governed by definitions and terms under copyright law and state contracts. The definitions and terms of an alleged non-exclusive license are paramount around a service which is clearly a work for hire. CGC's position is without merit or legal basis.

 

1. There is no such creature, other than in a comic board chat room, as an irrevocable non-exclusive license en perpetuity without consideration.

2. The submitter has all rights surrounding his property and how its used.

3. The property owner has the right to say no to the use of any derivative anytime he wants - and the notes are derivatives based on his property.

4. The notes are part of a process he paid for - they were created to support the grade of his book/ property. That was created for him and no one else.

5. The company was paid by him.

6. CGC has the right to control access to CGC products but have no interest or rights in the property (because they've been paid under clearly expressed terms).

7. The use of legal mumbo jumbo without merit or basis does not grant a license, either expressed or implied by conduct - especially where commerce is concerned.

 

Please also see:

 

Fair Use

Elements of the state based contract

Negligent Misrepresentation (Tort)

Material Concealment (Tort)

 

You say that the notes are "derivatives based on his property", but these notes are not simply derivative of the particular book submitted, which is indeed unique, but generated according to (and therefore derivative also of) standards and practices of grading which are the property of CGC. Put another way, the single book is the variable plugged into the formula owned by CGC. The notes are derivative of the formula, not simply the book alone.

 

You say that the grade and notes are created for "him and no one else" but this is not strictly true, the label attached to the slab has no meaning or significance apart from being CGC's *public declaration* that the grade is such and such, and not only to and for the owner of the book, but to all and any to whom it may concern.

[COI]

Your analogy of Elton John letting George Michael sing his song and giving up his rights isn't applicable

 

How about if Elton John is raping George Michael?

[jimjum12]

Don't take the position that you know what you're talking about and quit making assumptions.

 

It's a property rights issue governed by definitions and terms under copyright law and state contracts. The definitions and terms of an alleged non-exclusive license are paramount around a service which is clearly a work for hire. CGC's position is without merit or legal basis.

 

1. There is no such creature, other than in a comic board chat room, as an irrevocable non-exclusive license en perpetuity without consideration.

2. The submitter has all rights surrounding his property and how its used.

3. The property owner has the right to say no to the use of any derivative anytime he wants - and the notes are derivatives based on his property.

4. The notes are part of a process he paid for - they were created to support the grade of his book/ property. That was created for him and no one else.

5. The company was paid by him.

6. CGC has the right to control access to CGC products but have no interest or rights in the property (because they've been paid under clearly expressed terms).

7. The use of legal mumbo jumbo without merit or basis does not grant a license, either expressed or implied by conduct - especially where commerce is concerned.

 

Please also see:

 

Fair Use

Elements of the state based contract

Negligent Misrepresentation (Tort)

Material Concealment (Tort)

 

You say that the notes are "derivatives based on his property", but these notes are not simply derivative of the particular book submitted, which is indeed unique, but generated according to (and therefore derivative also of) standards and practices of grading which are the property of CGC. Put another way, the single book is the variable plugged into the formula owned by CGC. The notes are derivative of the formula, not simply the book alone.

 

You say that the grade and notes are created for "him and no one else" but this is not strictly true, the label attached to the slab has no meaning or significance apart from being CGC's *public declaration* that the grade is such and such, and not only to and for the owner of the book, but to all and any to whom it may concern.

 

......that was incredibly succinct. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[COI]

Thanks for the subtle dismissiveness and passive aggressive tones - so pleasant. We're all trying to understand the merit and legal basis for CGC's "irrevocable non-exclusive right en perpetuity without consideration" to a derivative product created specifically by an expressed agreement counselor.

 

 

Your being dismissive and aggressive, then crying when it gets served back to you. Chill the out, and others will too.

 

This is just friendly advice.

[Mxwll Smrt]

Good point - Bravo. Well done. I never thought of that.

 

My point since the beginning of my participation in the thread was that a non-exclusive license can be revoked and that CGC simply needed to come up with a better model to compensate the owners of the books to which the notes are a derivative product to.

[Mxwll Smrt]

OK.

[jimjum12]

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN,

 

ALL PERSON(S) PARTICIPATING IN THIS THREAD ARE HEREBY SUMMONED TO CGC HEADQUARTERS / SARASOTA, FLORIDA FOR A VIGOROUS AND SUBSTANTIAL GROUP SPANKING ON JULY 4th 2012.

[DiceX]

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN,

 

ALL PERSON(S) PARTICIPATING IN THIS THREAD ARE HEREBY SUMMONED TO CGC HEADQUARTERS / SARASOTA, FLORIDA FOR A VIGOROUS AND SUBSTANTIAL GROUP SPANKING ON JULY 4th 2012.

 

I have a bad monkey that needs a good spanking.

 

 

[Aces]

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN,

 

ALL PERSON(S) PARTICIPATING IN THIS THREAD ARE HEREBY SUMMONED TO CGC HEADQUARTERS / SARASOTA, FLORIDA FOR A VIGOROUS AND SUBSTANTIAL GROUP SPANKING ON JULY 4th 2012.

 

Only if she's the spanker.

 

[Marty Mann]

Copyrights?...has anyone ever asked permission from the

publishers to scan all the comic book covers shown on this

site?

 

mm

[sterlingcomics]

Wow. This sucks.

 

I would say 90% of my grader's note calls are because I want to know if a book has a popped staple, since they stopped noting that defect on the slab. I would glad pay a flat fee for access to grader's notes. In fact, I would almost rather do that since calling every time I want to buy a mid-grade golden age slab gets a little tedious. But there is no freaking way I am paying $10-30 APIECE for notes. I would rather just not buy or bid on the book in question....which is exactly what's going to happen. Seller's loss.

 

Hi all...been away for a bit--wow what a thread. Surprised they actually got this implemented. Although I rarely called for grader's notes, I think the subscription/access route would've been more cost effective and reasonable for them to implement. Flat rate or max for n number of books a month would've been better---OR--- a tiered model depending on level of interest....

 

On the hopeful side I hope this helps them focus on customer service in terms of grading schedule.

[mikenyc]

Your analogy of Elton John letting George Michael sing his song and giving up his rights isn't applicable

 

How about if Elton John is raping George Michael?

 

::

 

After 800+ posts, this is the most interesting question to be found in this thread. Both fascinating, titillating and depressing all rolled up.

[jimjum12]

Copyrights?...has anyone ever asked permission from the

publishers to scan all the comic book covers shown on this

site?

 

mm

 

.....as I recall, it's also grounds for legal action if one selles them in a mutilated or secondary fashion......but that didn't stop my hero, Howard M. Rogofsky from stylin' and profilin' GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[jimjum12]

Your analogy of Elton John letting George Michael sing his song and giving up his rights isn't applicable

 

How about if Elton John is raping George Michael?

 

::

 

After 800+ posts, this is the most interesting question to be found in this thread. Both fascinating, titillating and depressing all rolled up.

 

....how can it be rape if they were taking turns ? GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u