What is your Favorite Art,Drawing or story by Rob Liefeld? 1 1

[vaillant]

BUT, what I am saying is that I loved his prime work from the early 90s and think people should at least give him his due for the quality work at his peak. His work circa X-Force #1 was unlike anything else in comics and was popular enough to establish a clone army trying to mimic his success.

 

This time I do not agree. You may be affectioned to it, but it is objectively bad.

With a friend of mine we wrote an article for our fanzine when X-Force #5 came out to underline how bad the work Marvel was putting out was, especially his.

 

If you want to underline qualities, it’s better to look at earlier work, or as it has been said, work where inkers helped to improve the underlying pencils. The anatomy was all wrong, and as with Image they had all that success, it even went worse.

[Dr. Balls]

The attitude that he was horrible at every moment of his life, never had any talent, that he somehow magically coasted by on luck, and that millions of people were duped in the early 90s is downright silly.

 

I agree - it wasn't luck. It was pure positioning of himself as a brand, even though he was years and years ahead of his time in doing such a thing. Wizard worshipped him. 12-year olds who drew comics wanted to be him. There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that Rob Liefeld - the person - sold tons and tons of comic books. It cannot be denied that his name draws sales.

 

If you love the work, no problem. I will not tell people what they can and shouldn't love. But there are plenty of additional reasons to why he made Marvel, Image and himself lots of money - and it was not solely based on his drawing ability.

 

Everyone starts out somewhere in their career, but he never got better. And that's really the sad part of the whole story. All that exposure to all the best talent in comics for decades, and he couldn't get any better at his craft.

[MR SigS]

 

At this point it's a snowball of pop culture that has gone well beyond people's actual objective thoughts.

 

Where is the evidence that a single critical opinion shared here is not based on what the individual actually feels? I think the reason so many people comment so passionately is because Liefeld's art is so consistently bad. It's simple math and the law of averages. And when someone, consistently bad as he is, makes such an obscene amount of money doing it, it shouldn't be such a surprise.

 

 

i'm confused...so you know he's a bad artist?

 

I agree with much of what's said here - he is lazy, he does steal poses, he does miss deadlines, and he's been known to be a jerk at times, steal artists from other studios, etc. And I'm personally not a fan of his current work.

 

The complaints about anatomy, feet, and long legs are stylistic choices he makes and I forgive those the same way I don't criticize Kirby or Mignola or Lee for their choices.

 

BUT, what I am saying is that I loved his prime work from the early 90s and think people should at least give him his due for the quality work at his peak. His work circa X-Force #1 was unlike anything else in comics and was popular enough to establish a clone army trying to mimic his success.

 

The attitude that he was horrible at every moment of his life, never had any talent, that he somehow magically coasted by on luck, and that millions of people were duped in the early 90s is downright silly.

 

Give the man credit for the quality work.

 

Most refuse to see any difference.

 

So while you can think what you want (which is fine, of course), anyone that disagrees, by default, isn't giving Liefeld his due, and you feel they should think otherwise?

[F For Fake]

When I was a kid, I remember quite clearly picking up this issue of What If

 

 

...and being wowed by how DIFFERENT it looked from everything else on the stands. It was dynamic in a way that screamed "Look at me", and I remember making a mental note of the name "Liefeld" at that time.

 

However, even at that relatively young age, I remember opening the book up and thinking that while the art was "cool", there was something fundamentally "off" about the anatomy of the Wendigo and Hulk in the opening battle.

 

Some of the early Liefeld stuff is salvaged by solid inking. Once he went off on his own, and became his own boss, no one was around to make sure he didn't cut all of the corners. Looking at his work now as an adult, 90% of it makes my eyes bleed, but there can be no question that his work, AT THE TIME (before it was endlessly cloned) was something unique in the marketplace, and something that I found exciting.

Edited May 7, 2014 by F For Fake

[Maccai3]

i'm confused...so you know he's a bad artist?

 

I agree with much of what's said here - he is lazy, he does steal poses, he does miss deadlines, and he's been known to be a jerk at times, steal artists from other studios, etc. And I'm personally not a fan of his current work.

 

The complaints about anatomy, feet, and long legs are stylistic choices he makes and I forgive those the same way I don't criticize Kirby or Mignola or Lee for their choices.

 

BUT, what I am saying is that I loved his prime work from the early 90s and think people should at least give him his due for the quality work at his peak. His work circa X-Force #1 was unlike anything else in comics and was popular enough to establish a clone army trying to mimic his success.

 

The attitude that he was horrible at every moment of his life, never had any talent, that he somehow magically coasted by on luck, and that millions of people were duped in the early 90s is downright silly.

 

Give the man credit for the quality work.

 

Most refuse to see any difference.

 

i 100% believe that this is what happened though, i have yet to see anybody show any examples of his "quality" work

 

i think what happened was that his style of huge guns and muscles worked with young children, kids that young that they probabily never even had a thought in their tiny minds that people actually wrote/drew the books they were reading...he's basically the drawing equivelant of the Ultimate Warrior

[RockMyAmadeus]

BUT, what I am saying is that I loved his prime work from the early 90s and think people should at least give him his due for the quality work at his peak.

 

 

You are amazingly hilarious.

 

Let me spell it out for you, since you just can't seem to grasp this:

 

There has never been, at any point on Rob Liefeld's entire career, ever, a time where he produced "quality work".

 

EVER.

 

NEVER.

 

There is a time when he TRIED (and that ended around 1989), but you seem to labor under this massive misconception that, at least for some time period, Rob Liefeld operated within the rules of standard artistic practice.

 

This has NEVER been true, EVER.

 

In fact, the very example you, yourself, threw up to demonstrate his "best" work is filled to the gills with errors and flaws!

 

The only "credit" he is due is that he managed to pull off a style that made him millions of dollars.

 

Like One Direction, Spice Girls, Backstreet Boys, N'Sync, New Kids on the Block, POPULARITY is NO indicator of quality.

 

Give it UP, already!

 

[RabidFerret]

Where is the evidence that a single critical opinion shared here is not based on what the individual actually feels? I think the reason so many people comment so passionately is because Liefeld's art is so consistently bad. It's simple math and the law of averages. And when someone, consistently bad as he is, makes such an obscene amount of money doing it, it shouldn't be such a surprise.

 

So while you can think what you want (which is fine, of course), anyone that disagrees, by default, isn't giving Liefeld his due, and you feel they should think otherwise?

 

Well, generally, critical opinions are not simply pointing to a popular webpage and writing mocking comments:) Start a Liefeld thread on 20 different forums and I suspect within the first 5 comments someone will link to that page(40 Worst). It's like the common joke everyone knows and it's just a question of who's the first person to link it.

 

There are CLEARLY plenty of people that have commented on this thread who DID give his work an objective look and decided they didn't like that, and most of them made comments along those lines that could be taken honestly and seriously. I'm not knocking any of them.

 

But on a topic with SUCH a polarizing figure there are certainly plenty who just want to jump into the mob and join in, or whose comments are the formulaic silliness like "he can't draw feet".

 

I honestly can't think of a single artist out there other than Liefeld where people will argue tooth and nail that he's horrible and terrible, often without having seen or read his work, or by simply pointing to the same tired examples again and again.

 

 

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

i'm confused...so you know he's a bad artist?

 

I agree with much of what's said here - he is lazy, he does steal poses, he does miss deadlines, and he's been known to be a jerk at times, steal artists from other studios, etc. And I'm personally not a fan of his current work.

 

The complaints about anatomy, feet, and long legs are stylistic choices he makes and I forgive those the same way I don't criticize Kirby or Mignola or Lee for their choices.

 

BUT, what I am saying is that I loved his prime work from the early 90s and think people should at least give him his due for the quality work at his peak. His work circa X-Force #1 was unlike anything else in comics and was popular enough to establish a clone army trying to mimic his success.

 

The attitude that he was horrible at every moment of his life, never had any talent, that he somehow magically coasted by on luck, and that millions of people were duped in the early 90s is downright silly.

 

Give the man credit for the quality work.

 

Most refuse to see any difference.

 

i 100% believe that this is what happened though, i have yet to see anybody show any examples of his "quality" work

 

i think what happened was that his style of huge guns and muscles worked with young children, kids that young that they probabily never even had a thought in their tiny minds that people actually wrote/drew the books they were reading...he's basically the drawing equivelant of the Ultimate Warrior

 

Reality is IMPERVIOUS to childhood memories.

[RabidFerret]

i 100% believe that this is what happened though, i have yet to see anybody show any examples of his "quality" work

 

So what determines "quality" work? Your opinion? Perfect accuracy to human anatomy? I flip through much of his work in X-Force #1 and think it's absolutely amazing. It's bold inking, it's enjoyable storytelling, it's fun action, great pacing...but no matter how clearly I point out the good or quality things, people will invariably find things to nitpick no matter what.

 

Here's my favorite page of the book.

 

It's a great action page, great focus on the main characters, the inking is great, it moves the story forward. But plenty of people here will likely rip it apart for the sake of ripping it apart.

 

[RabidFerret]

 

 

You are amazingly hilarious.

 

Let me spell it out for you, since you just can't seem to grasp this:

 

There has never been, at any point on Rob Liefeld's entire career, ever, a time where he produced "quality work".

 

EVER.

 

NEVER.

 

There is a time when he TRIED (and that ended around 1989), but you seem to labor under this massive misconception that, at least for some time period, Rob Liefeld operated within the rules of standard artistic practice.

 

This has NEVER been true, EVER.

 

In fact, the very example you, yourself, threw up to demonstrate his "best" work is filled to the gills with errors and flaws!

 

The only "credit" he is due is that he managed to pull off a style that made him millions of dollars.

 

Like One Direction, Spice Girls, Backstreet Boys, N'Sync, New Kids on the Block, POPULARITY is NO indicator of quality.

 

Give it UP, already!

 

 

 

Thanks so much for continuing to illuminate us with your insightful opinions. You really bring a level of clarity and intellectualism to this discussion.

 

I now fully understand why inbreeding is illegal.

[Logan510]

i'm confused...so you know he's a bad artist?

 

I agree with much of what's said here - he is lazy, he does steal poses, he does miss deadlines, and he's been known to be a jerk at times, steal artists from other studios, etc. And I'm personally not a fan of his current work.

 

The complaints about anatomy, feet, and long legs are stylistic choices he makes and I forgive those the same way I don't criticize Kirby or Mignola or Lee for their choices.

 

BUT, what I am saying is that I loved his prime work from the early 90s and think people should at least give him his due for the quality work at his peak. His work circa X-Force #1 was unlike anything else in comics and was popular enough to establish a clone army trying to mimic his success.

 

The attitude that he was horrible at every moment of his life, never had any talent, that he somehow magically coasted by on luck, and that millions of people were duped in the early 90s is downright silly.

 

Give the man credit for the quality work.

 

Most refuse to see any difference.

 

I might agree with you, if you could show me any example of his work ( that wasn't fixed by a painter ) that showed he knows how to draw "correctly" and those were actual "stylistic choices". I double dog dare you.

[RabidFerret]

You are amazingly hilarious.

 

Let me spell it out for you, since you just can't seem to grasp this:

 

There has never been, at any point on Rob Liefeld's entire career, ever, a time where he produced "quality work".

 

EVER.

 

NEVER.

 

There is a time when he TRIED (and that ended around 1989), but you seem to labor under this massive misconception that, at least for some time period, Rob Liefeld operated within the rules of standard artistic practice.

 

This has NEVER been true, EVER.

 

In fact, the very example you, yourself, threw up to demonstrate his "best" work is filled to the gills with errors and flaws!

 

The only "credit" he is due is that he managed to pull off a style that made him millions of dollars.

 

Like One Direction, Spice Girls, Backstreet Boys, N'Sync, New Kids on the Block, POPULARITY is NO indicator of quality.

 

Give it UP, already!

 

 

So outta curiosity, who do YOU seem to think are these amazing artists you feel are up to your demanding standards? Because based on your criticism, I can't imagine you finding a single artist working in comics who would meet such a standard?

 

Unless he drew lamps.

 

[Dr. Balls]

Did someone fill his backgrounds? They are either done with a different type of ink, or they faded faster than the other inks (I suspect Sharpie).

 

Not a loaded question, just curious.

[RockMyAmadeus]

i 100% believe that this is what happened though, i have yet to see anybody show any examples of his "quality" work

 

So what determines "quality" work? Your opinion? Perfect accuracy to human anatomy? I flip through much of his work in X-Force #1 and think it's absolutely amazing. It's bold inking, it's enjoyable storytelling, it's fun action, great pacing...but no matter how clearly I point out the good or quality things, people will invariably find things to nitpick no matter what.

 

That's because it's none of these things (with the possible exception of "bold inking." I can spill an entire bottle of ink on a page, and call it "bold inking.")

 

What determines QUALITY work is what has been said over and over again: perspective, anatomy, form, consistency, composition, layout, linework, proportion. These are the things that OBJECTIVELY determine quality work.

 

Liefeld has none of them.

 

Quickly: summarize the plot of X-Force #1, using 15 words or less.

 

Here's an example:

 

Swamp Things #21: The Anatomy Lesson: Alan Moore completely rewrites Swampy's origins, while remaining true to all that came before.

 

Now you try.

 

Here's my favorite page of the book.

 

It's a great action page, great focus on the main characters, the inking is great, it moves the story forward. But plenty of people here will likely rip it apart for the sake of ripping it apart.

 

Or, for the sake of objective analysis.

 

Cover the word balloons. Now tell me what's happening.

 

YOU CAN'T, because the page consists of nothing but POSES.

 

Is it the opening number to a Broadway musical? Is it a post-Apocalyptic nightmare, where humanity has been replaced by garish, overdressed Pouch-People? Is it an avant-garde fashion show in Milan?

 

Storytelling??

 

Give it UP already.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

 

You are amazingly hilarious.

 

Let me spell it out for you, since you just can't seem to grasp this:

 

There has never been, at any point on Rob Liefeld's entire career, ever, a time where he produced "quality work".

 

EVER.

 

NEVER.

 

There is a time when he TRIED (and that ended around 1989), but you seem to labor under this massive misconception that, at least for some time period, Rob Liefeld operated within the rules of standard artistic practice.

 

This has NEVER been true, EVER.

 

In fact, the very example you, yourself, threw up to demonstrate his "best" work is filled to the gills with errors and flaws!

 

The only "credit" he is due is that he managed to pull off a style that made him millions of dollars.

 

Like One Direction, Spice Girls, Backstreet Boys, N'Sync, New Kids on the Block, POPULARITY is NO indicator of quality.

 

Give it UP, already!

 

 

 

Thanks so much for continuing to illuminate us with your insightful opinions. You really bring a level of clarity and intellectualism to this discussion.

 

I do try.

 

I now fully understand why inbreeding is illegal.

 

Because it results in rational arguments and coherent thought processes...? Is that the point you're trying to make here?

 

 

[Dr. Balls]

Paging Frank Miller 'death of Elektra' page...

[Chip Cataldo]

@ "Pouch-People."

 

Peace,

 

Chip

[Point Five]

Is it the opening number to a Broadway musical? Is it a post-Apocalyptic nightmare, where humanity has been replaced by garish, overdressed Pouch-People? Is it an avant-garde fashion show in Milan?

 

 

[Ken Aldred]

Paging Frank Miller 'death of Elektra' page...

 

Is that the double-page Ronin swipe, or am I getting confused?

[RockMyAmadeus]

I honestly can't think of a single artist out there other than Liefeld where people will argue tooth and nail that he's horrible and terrible, often without having seen or read his work, or by simply pointing to the same tired examples again and again.

 

This is a straw man argument. No one who has commented here has done what you claimed. Everyone here who argured that he's horrible and terrible did so by pointing to many different examples. You cannot even demonstrate what are the "same tired examples", because you made that statement up. The examples ARE tired, but not for the reasons you point out, and they are hardly the same. The examples, in this case, are endless.