What is your Favorite Art,Drawing or story by Rob Liefeld? 1 1

[Maccai3]

Paging Frank Miller 'death of Elektra' page...

 

Is that the double-page Ronin swipe, or am I getting confused?

 

The Ronin swipe is horrible...even I cringe at that. But that's not this.

 

[RabidFerret]

Not everyone is able to evaluate drawing and storitelling skills — without an education it is often difficult.

For example, Don Heck, which is more than often despised, could teach how to draw and narrate to a good 80% of today's "artists".

 

Here’s some Crimson Dynamo from ToS #46, comrade!

 

 

Wow...just...wow. I've never seen a group of people come together to support my argument so well before!!

 

Thank you all! I feel so loved!!

 

The mob that is you(you know who you are, take a bow!) continues to show that no matter what's presented you see what you want to see.

 

Again and again examples are posted and you refuse to be objective. You refuse to step back but immediately attack it with a fine toothed comb to find the flaws that support your arguments.

 

Every piece of comic art is full of the same mistakes if you take the time to look.

 

Your example of great storytelling is well appreciated. Let me be you.

 

1) You include a page where 5 panels have no backgrounds. The remaining 2 make me assume they're in the basement of the Eiffel Tower? Is that right?

2) I love how the light source changes in those final two panels. There's no indication that the dynamo and his friend move but their shadows do? Is this Peter Pan?

3) I'm always of fan of when the character design changes from panel to panel. Where does the dynamo get that pretty pink ruffled bonnet he has on his head in panel 4 that he didn't have before?

4) In panel 1 they walk past a very clear wooden door and some plants...why do they vanish in the next panel?

5) In panel 2 Iron Man appears to be standing on the middle of a ice skating rink? And whatever light source appears in panels 6-7 clearly avoids him entirely, leaving him shadow free?

6) In panel 4 the dynamo presses a button in the most comically unrealistic way possible. Surprised he's not twisting a diabolical mustache while he's at it.

7) And then a tank appears? Inside this skating rink?

8) And in panel 5 it looks like Iron Man is being broken into pieces...but based on the debris in panel 6 am I supposed to take it as complete disintegration?

 

Wow, I'm learning so much here...

[Hado]

Paging Frank Miller 'death of Elektra' page...

 

Is that the double-page Ronin swipe, or am I getting confused?

 

The Ronin swipe is horrible...even I cringe at that. But that's not this.

 

That ponytail is so dynamic!

[Maccai3]

Not everyone is able to evaluate drawing and storitelling skills — without an education it is often difficult.

For example, Don Heck, which is more than often despised, could teach how to draw and narrate to a good 80% of today's "artists".

 

Here’s some Crimson Dynamo from ToS #46, comrade!

 

 

Wow...just...wow. I've never seen a group of people come together to support my argument so well before!!

 

Thank you all! I feel so loved!!

 

The mob that is you(you know who you are, take a bow!) continues to show that no matter what's presented you see what you want to see.

 

Again and again examples are posted and you refuse to be objective. You refuse to step back but immediately attack it with a fine toothed comb to find the flaws that support your arguments.

 

Every piece of comic art is full of the same mistakes if you take the time to look.

 

Your example of great storytelling is well appreciated. Let me be you.

 

1) You include a page where 5 panels have no backgrounds. The remaining 2 make me assume they're in the basement of the Eiffel Tower? Is that right?

2) I love how the light source changes in those final two panels. There's no indication that the dynamo and his friend move but their shadows do? Is this Peter Pan?

3) I'm always of fan of when the character design changes from panel to panel. Where does the dynamo get that pretty pink ruffled bonnet he has on his head in panel 4 that he didn't have before?

4) In panel 1 they walk past a very clear wooden door and some plants...why do they vanish in the next panel?

5) In panel 2 Iron Man appears to be standing on the middle of a ice skating rink? And whatever light source appears in panels 6-7 clearly avoids him entirely, leaving him shadow free?

6) In panel 4 the dynamo presses a button in the most comically unrealistic way possible. Surprised he's not twisting a diabolical mustache while he's at it.

7) And then a tank appears? Inside this skating rink?

8) And in panel 5 it looks like Iron Man is being broken into pieces...but based on the debris in panel 6 am I supposed to take it as complete disintegration?

 

Wow, I'm learning so much here...

 

um, i posted a link too....pick it apart if you desire

 

http://ifanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/dc871_25_26_layouts_low.jpg

[RabidFerret]

Great inking? Every single line on this page is the same thickness.

 

 

The definition of great inking is not simply that there is differing line weight.

 

Look at Winsor McCay or Herge or the majority of strip artists. If they have more than 2 line weights I'd be amazed.

 

And let me ask - have you ever inked? It's really not that easy. You can't go slow. You need to move fast to give it life. You really need to sling it to get the sweeping lines and energy. This art has that. His current stuff does not; its very flat. Compare the two and you should be able to see what I mean.

[RabidFerret]

I'm confused, as I don't know any of these characters, but is Cable supposed to be the girth-iest human being on the planet?

 

Yes, that's his super power:)

[RockMyAmadeus]

Quickly: summarize the plot of X-Force #1, using 15 words or less.

 

Here's an example:

 

Swamp Things #21: The Anatomy Lesson: Alan Moore completely rewrites Swampy's origins, while remaining true to all that came before.

 

Do you understand what the word "plot" means?

 

"Alan Moore rewrites Swampy's origins" is not a plot.

 

 

Ok, now I think you're really just playing for fun. No one can be this purposely obtuse.

 

That is precisely what the plot to Swamp Thing #21 is.

 

Admit it, you're just screwing around, right...?

 

 

(snip)

 

All the rest of this is your usual silly rejoinders and insults, because you, like the artist you admire, have no substance.

 

[RabidFerret]

The problem is. I rarely see anything that looks like he took his time with it. The only other one I can think of was the convention sketch (I think) of Supergirl (again, I think). It wasn't that bad, which would really be ironic if he actually drew it at the convention (If that's where it was).

 

I sadly agree here completely:( He never takes his time these days. He rushes things out constantly and it shows.

 

 

[RabidFerret]

what gives away home turf and headquarters? you know that because you've read it

 

all the art gives away it that there is a group of people who end up charging another group of people

 

 

Home turf and the headquarters are the plot, not the storytelling.

 

And yes, exactly right, the art gives away that a group of people are charging another group of people.

 

This is the middle page in a fight scene. What do you want? An establishing show on every page of the comic?

[Unca Ben]

RabidFerret, I can appreciate that you are a fan of some of Rob’s work and I respect that.

Personally I don’t feel he is a very good comic book artist on many levels.

 

I don’t see the need in attempting to convince you that your opinions are wrong at the expense of the pleasure you find in enjoying Rob Liefeld’s work.

 

Though I could cloak the discussion in a more altruistic fashion, it would seem to serve no good purpose, other than to gain self satisfaction at your expense.

 

 

Edited May 7, 2014 by ucleben

[RabidFerret]

Ok, now I think you're really just playing for fun. No one can be this purposely obtuse.

 

That is precisely what the plot to Swamp Thing #21 is.

 

Admit it, you're just screwing around, right...?

 

I'm really not sure you understand the english language at all.

 

 

[slym2none]

I grew up in that timeframe and was a total Marvel fanboy. Loved my X-Men and all the mutants, loved Jim Lee & Marc Silvestri when he drew them. But even back then, there was somthing about Liefeld's art that just didn't settle with me. It was like he was trying too hard and missing a vital "something."

 

So, no - I have never really liked his art, and only thought it looked decent when others were inking him.

 

My opinion, I formed it on my own, no mob mentality helped me nor will I need to jump onto another's bandwagon for it to be mine.

 

 

 

 

-slym

[Maccai3]

what gives away home turf and headquarters? you know that because you've read it

 

all the art gives away it that there is a group of people who end up charging another group of people

 

 

Home turf and the headquarters are the plot, not the storytelling.

 

And yes, exactly right, the art gives away that a group of people are charging another group of people.

 

This is the middle page in a fight scene. What do you want? An establishing show on every page of the comic?

 

isn't every page in a Liefeld comic a fight scene? it's either that or people are standing in poses with 50 word balloons around it....generally a single splash page image

 

 

[RabidFerret]

 

um, i posted a link too....pick it apart if you desire

 

http://ifanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/dc871_25_26_layouts_low.jpg

 

I'm not clear if this is finished art or just layouts? If it's layouts I'll forgive the general roughness of it and the pencil lines that show through.

 

But yeah, it's certainly a solid page. A far better example than the other one posted. It certainly does tell a story well - I'm guessing Gordon arrives at a bird sanctuary and goes to watch video footage, where he sees himself without a mustache. I'm guessing that's not meant to be him in the video?

 

I could point to things like the guys hat morphing into a cowboy hat in panel 3. Or the bars on the cage in that panel that look like they were broken open.

 

I think the argument could be made he has no idea how to draw feet either.

 

But yeah, small things. In general it is a fine set of pages, and certainly does solid storytelling and use of blacks.

 

But here's one thing I will say - the page doesn't grab me. I'm not convinced I'll remember any of these panels years from now. It's not a piece of art I'd necessarily want to own and hang on my wall.

 

The Liefeld page I posted fires on all cylinders on the last point.

 

And an aspect of comics books is the fun and enjoyment and comic-bookiness of it all.

 

 

[RabidFerret]

Did someone fill his backgrounds? They are either done with a different type of ink, or they faded faster than the other inks (I suspect Sharpie).

 

Not a loaded question, just curious.

 

Liefeld used tech pens for a lot of backgrounds and straight edges, which have not aged well. Almost all of Shatterstar's swords have faded from that era.

 

Sadly, it sounds like a lot of guys were doing that back then with the new tools available to them, but without any real idea of how they'd age, and often in order to hit deadlines.

 

[dgillock]

I hear this way too much when comics are brought up in the 90's or in general period " Rob Liefeld destroyed The industry" "He Can't draw feet,faces,remember that cap picture,Pouches etc,etc."well I do however agree(very much)that its true but its way too easy to add to this played out dead horse of a subject.However,I do have a a rather interesting question What is your Favorite Art,Drawing or story by Rob Liefeld?This should be Interesting Can't wait to see what you guys have to say...

 

 

Well, since this thread immediately devolved into a bunch of sheep baah-ing the same tired, old criticisms and showing no appreciation or interest in actually discussing art, I'll actually answer the topic itself.

 

I think this is his best piece ever:

 

 

 

You wanna discuss art....? Fine, let's discuss art:

 

Look at the background. It's nothing but a poorly drawn "brick" wall.

 

Look at the feet.

 

Look at whatever that is Cable is wearing. It looks like a suit someone would put on for space or deep sea exploration. He cannot possibly move around in that contraption.

 

What the hell is growing on Warpath's right forearm?? And why is it bigger than his HEAD?

 

And why is his fist bigger than everyone ELSE'S head?

 

Where is Domino's left foot?

 

What is Shatterstar sitting on?

 

Why are Boom-Boom and Cannonball standing on a platform that isn't shown?

 

Look at Cable's left "foot"....then compare it to his right "foot"

 

This can go on and on and on....there are endless errors on this piece.

 

Beat me to it!!

 

We could do this all day, and not run out of things to critique.

 

 

The problem here is that you could do this FOR ANYONE. Pick any artist and any piece of art, and if you've already decided you don't like the artist, you'll find plenty of things to mock.

 

And the reverse is true too, that if you love the artist you'll ignore all the same issues.

 

Even though I just posted this on another thread yesterday, it fits in well here too.

 

Want to go through picking apart all the things wrong with this piece?

 

 

Kirby drew that when he was 60 years old and it was during a period when his work WAS getting criticized by comic fans. It's what happens when you sit hunched over a drawing table for 40 years, pumping out 3 to 4 books a month (something Liefeld will never get accused of), and your health starts to fade.

 

Yeah, when Kirby got late into his years, some of that stuff started to show... but he clearly, CLEARLY had an understanding of anatomy and perspective in his career, something Liefeld showed a LACK of understanding for in everything HE did throughout his entire career.

 

Oh and part of the reason the perspective looks flawed is Caps fist and foot are supposed to be jumping out of the page at you. It's meant to be larger to show it being nearer to your eye. There are better examples than this one, but that's what's going on here.

 

 

I am super-late to this party, but I just saw this thread and thought I would comment on this Kirby piece. Art doesn't need to be realistic to be good. It does need to have some sort of over-arching internal logic, however. Whether you are talking about DaVinci, or Rembrandt, or Van Gogh, or Rockwell, or Pollock, or Kirby, or Liefeld this holds true. The perspective and foreshortening and anatomy (and etc) in the Kirby piece is fair from realistic, but it does have an internal logic. Additionally, from a purely formal evaluation, this is skillfully composed piece with some nice balance and tension. Not saying you have to like it stylistically, but it is far from "flawed". It is actually quite accomplished.

 

The Liefeld piece, however, not only fails at realism, but it also lacks any internal logic -- aside from being "F'ing AWESOME!", I suppose. I get that Liefeld's style and tone was very fashionable at one point and that he worked on some comics that were very popular for various reasons. I don't fault anyone for collecting his work either for nostalgic or aesthetic purposes, either. To each their own and I am more than happy to offer and sell his work. But comparing his work to Kirby's (of any era really) serves no purpose. Apples and oranges IMO.

[Maccai3]

its the rough layouts, Francavilla colours his own work

 

um, i posted a link too....pick it apart if you desire

 

http://ifanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/dc871_25_26_layouts_low.jpg

 

I'm not clear if this is finished art or just layouts? If it's layouts I'll forgive the general roughness of it and the pencil lines that show through.

 

But yeah, it's certainly a solid page. A far better example than the other one posted. It certainly does tell a story well - I'm guessing Gordon arrives at a bird sanctuary and goes to watch video footage, where he sees himself without a mustache. I'm guessing that's not meant to be him in the video?

 

I could point to things like the guys hat morphing into a cowboy hat in panel 3. Or the bars on the cage in that panel that look like they were broken open.

 

I think the argument could be made he has no idea how to draw feet either.

 

But yeah, small things. In general it is a fine set of pages, and certainly does solid storytelling and use of blacks.

 

But here's one thing I will say - the page doesn't grab me. I'm not convinced I'll remember any of these panels years from now. It's not a piece of art I'd necessarily want to own and hang on my wall.

 

The Liefeld page I posted fires on all cylinders on the last point.

 

And an aspect of comics books is the fun and enjoyment and comic-bookiness of it all.

 

 

this is the second half finished

 

Edited May 8, 2014 by Maccai3

[DiceX]

And let me ask - have you ever inked?

 

Yes, yes, as a matter of fact, I have.

Does that make my comment valid now?

The ink on that page is horrible.

Horrible.

 

 

[Maccai3]

also Francavilla can draw feet and hands

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/40/3509665-dsc06019.jpg

[kav]

I knew nothing about Liefeld til someone used him as a bad example so I google imaged his name and immediately formed my own opinions as tears rolled down my cheeks laughing. Then I started reading websites devoted to him but my initial assessment was solely my own.

 

You realize it's a self fulfilling issue, right?

 

The vast majority of people posting images are the ones mocking him, which then generate the most traffic, which then ranks those images higher.

 

Just google Liefeld and go to images.

 

Half the content are the same common images used to mock him, including ones that directly point out flaws.

 

True but after that I did go buy Youngblood #1 just to see if that was the case-it was awful.