Removing TPB's from the Registry
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60 posts in this topic

As to TPBs in the registry, the poll suggests that a plurality favors their removal (full disclosure: I voted "no" on them); however, three things bother me:

 

1) it is a very close vote, with 46% (18 votes) voting to include them in some way, and 50% (20 votes) choosing to exclude them. I think this is too close to begin removing trades from people's collections.

 

2) Only a grand total of 40 of the hundreds of site users voted. I am uncomfortable with the vocal minority (which again includes me) imposing a standard on the site as a whole.

 

3) And some people are going to have slots removed from their sets against their will.

 

Speaking for myself, I'd rather this site be as inclusive as possible. Accordingly, I propose the following to anyone who reads this and has an interest:

 

Proposal: 1) Create a few sets composed of ONLY trades -- "DC Trades," "Marvel Trades," "Batman TPBs," "Image Trades," whatever the interest might be . . . 2) these would be competitive sets like any other, so those who have trades slabbed can still enter them into the Registry (after all, CGC DOES grade and slab them) 3) delete the Trades from all other existing sets, effectively segregating the trades from the issues collections. 4) make this known to those who have trades in their sets, so all are informed that their slabbed TPBs can still be entered competitively.

 

Well, that's it. Love to have a discussion around this possible solution, one that I think will satisfy everyone.

 

Happy Memorial Day, and if you served or are now serving in the military: Thanks!

 

 

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I am not concerned with the number of votes given the number of thread views. I was initially hoping to have a yes/no vote to avoid confusion. The no votes are the majority even with the additional voting options.

 

A TPB set was also suggested but the problem is that not all TPB's can be graded.

 

I don't see why the vote wouldn't stand as is.

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I am not concerned with the number of votes given the number of thread views. I was initially hoping to have a yes/no vote to avoid confusion. The no votes are the majority even with the additional voting options.

 

A TPB set was also suggested but the problem is that not all TPB's can be graded.

 

I don't see why the vote wouldn't stand as is.

 

The "no" votes are not the majority, but the plurality of a minority. And why is the fact that all Trades can't be graded even an issue? Not all comics can be graded, either -- Treasury-sized issues, for example.

 

What's the problem with creating "Trades-only" sets? This still removes TPBs from other competitive sets, which is the goal, is it not? -- yet still allows those few with them to keep them in the registry and have whatever point values are attached to them count for them. Why would you or anyone be opposed to that? The points of view of those who want their graded and slabbed TPBs to count for something cannot be discounted, and we can't simply deny them an access they already have.

 

The poll won't allow one to vote again, but if I could, I'd vote "yes" to allowing those people who had their books graded to keep them in segregated TPB-only sets. Still think this satisfies everybody's needs.

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I don't refer to any specific set; and, in a site with hundreds of active users, the handful of votes cast in this tally aren't a majority of anything. (And it was pretty close among those who did vote.)

 

All that aside, the basic question remains: Why not allow for the creation of segregated Trades-only sets for anyone interested in creating one? This serves to eliminate trades from the established sets while still allowing them in the registry. Everybody's happy.

 

As you pointed out earlier, this is an idea favored by more than just me.

 

There's another angle on this: Certified Guaranty grades and slabs comics, and the registry is a place for their owners to show them. They see fit to include TPB compilations of comics in that endeavor. Logically, then, by the definition of the company who oversees this site, TPB's, graded and slabbed, do indeed belong in the Registry. CGC considers them comics, otherwise why would CGC grade and slab them?

 

Again, I reiterate that I initially voted against having trades in the Registry, but then I thought "who am I to deny the people who had these trades graded and slabbed access to the Registry run by the very company that graded and slabbed them in the first place"?

 

In the final analysis, I came to the conclusion that we do not have the right or authority to exclude them. If CGC grades it, then the CGC Registry ought to showcase it.

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TPB's have historically been used to manipulate the registry and it frustrates the competition for some. This is why the poll was created and TPB's excluded. If you wish to have TPB sets then by all means have a vote. I would be surprised if anyone participated in an all TPB set but I guess we can see.

 

I was the one who suggested TPB sets and there was no support. I also voted TPB in non-competitive slots.

 

You mentioned hundreds of members but how relevant is that? How many sets does this even affect? The debate was started because of brand new sets and the inevitable logic of "Why not add a TPB to this new set A because I see a lot for a TPB in set B"

 

If you wish to encourage others to vote then by all means link the poll that is set up. It's not going anywhere. Right now you are lobbying for a clear minority that may or may not even care.

 

 

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Again, I reiterate that I initially voted against having trades in the Registry, but then I thought "who am I to deny the people who had these trades graded and slabbed access to the Registry run by the very company that graded and slabbed them in the first place"?

 

I assume you are a user of the competitive registry and therefore invest a certain amount of time. For me I have no issue with a non-competitive slot but I also feel I have the right to vote and influence the registry setup because I am an active participant.

 

Using "whatever CGC is willing to grade" as the definition of a comic is weak. We both know that and you lose my attention with such logic.

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TPB's have historically been used to manipulate the registry and it frustrates the competition for some. This is why the poll was created and TPB's excluded. If you wish to have TPB sets then by all means have a vote. I would be surprised if anyone participated in an all TPB set but I guess we can see.

 

I was the one who suggested TPB sets and there was no support. I also voted TPB in non-competitive slots.

 

You mentioned hundreds of members but how relevant is that? How many sets does this even affect? The debate was started because of brand new sets and the inevitable logic of "Why not add a TPB to this new set A because I see a lot for a TPB in set B"

 

If you wish to encourage others to vote then by all means link the poll that is set up. It's not going anywhere. Right now you are lobbying for a clear minority that may or may not even care.

 

 

I don't understand the logic of your two points, which seem to contradict each other: on the one hand, using trades in sets to manipulate competitive results, but on the other hand, so few people having them. BTW, if you supported non-competitive slots, then why back off that? Seems like a good and fair compromise.

 

I have a single TPB in all of my sets: CGC put up the set recently (History of the DC Universe -- someone requested it) with *three* slots for what I knew to be a two-issue prestige-format mini: a slot for #1, for #2, and to my surprise a slot for something called #nn, which I found later was for the Trade combining one and two. I eventually bought a copy off eBay for a fair price (graded 9.8 with beautiful Alex Ross cover art), and listed it in the set. To date, I have the only set under this title -- not even whoever initially requested the set has a set in it. Are you and 18 other guys now telling me I have to get rid of it? When CGC says I can list it? By what right?

 

I have a nice Death of Superman collection, and I see a slot at the bottom for Death of Superman Platinum trade. I don't, and never will, own one. It scores low, and is a drop in the bucket in an otherwise massive set. It's not impacting the competition, and certainly does not affect one way or the other the top sets in that Registry set.

 

In what set is this competition factor an issue?

 

Here's where the hundreds of Registry members come in. The problem with "having a vote" is that the majority of the users don't participate, or are even aware of such a vote, or ever read or post in the chat room. It therefore can't be a legitimate indicator of the will of the users. Are some of them to check their sets one day soon and see that some slot in their favorite set is now gone without their knowledge? Some book they had graded now doesn't count because some handful of guys had a vote? This may only impact a small number of people in a handful of sets, but if that's the case, why be so adamant to kick them out?

 

In browsing around the site, I don't see a lot of trades, and those that are there score quite low -- too low to meaningfully impact any serious competition with a set.

 

I do agree that probably few people would participate in a TPB-only set, but a few might. Popularity has never been a hindrance to creating a specific set.

 

If a "trades-only" set of sets were the rule, and everyone knew that trades could not be entered in any other sets, wouldn't that solve your issue of "if set A has it, then set B has to have it as well"? In a registry with trades-only sets, that can't happen.

 

 

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Again, I reiterate that I initially voted against having trades in the Registry, but then I thought "who am I to deny the people who had these trades graded and slabbed access to the Registry run by the very company that graded and slabbed them in the first place"?

 

I assume you are a user of the competitive registry and therefore invest a certain amount of time. For me I have no issue with a non-competitive slot but I also feel I have the right to vote and influence the registry setup because I am an active participant.

 

Using "whatever CGC is willing to grade" as the definition of a comic is weak. We both know that and you lose my attention with such logic.

 

I am indeed a user and an active participant, since July of '09, with 37 active sets on the Registry. I'm all for participation but I don't feel I can speak for the Registry. I don't feel I can deny people the right to list their graded comics, even if they are trades and I don't necessarily see them AS comics myself. That's really all I'm saying. Adding to the registry and having a say in its shape is all well and good, and as it should be. But removing items in other people's sets is I think out of bounds. That's my primary thought on this. I certainly would not like to see my one and only graded tpb booted against my will.

 

And I do stick by my point that if CGC grades and slabs trades, who am I to say they can't be in a set? I'm not saying that defines them as "comics" but certainly a close relative.

 

Perhaps discussions such as these are better had at the set level. If you have an issue with trades in a particular set, I'd say discussing it with the other set-holders in that title might be a good idea. Those will be the primary people impacted, after all.

 

OK, I've said all I have to say on this. I said it all in a spirit of friendly debate, and I hope that's how it came across. I'm a college professor, and I tend to speak in big chunks, sorry. I too just want to have a voice. Enjoy the holiday!

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Yes, you talk in large chunks and I try to answer "short and sweet". lol

 

The idea here is not to impose the will of a few. For your example who would have your TPB removed? A request would have to be made and since you are the only registry set then you are likely the only one to make the request.

 

I am in a set where 3 points makes all the difference. Suddenly adding a TPB slot near the registry deadline tips that scale. Keep in mind that this particular set is a set that should be complete since the series ended some time ago. What the vote does is gives someone like myself the ability to block a request to add a TPB to a set in which I compete. Keep in mind that the keepers of the registry are unable to determine if it is a TPB when the request to add it is made. If all the registry owners in that set are ok with it then who is going to have it removed?

 

My points about only a few having some and manipulating the registry do not contradict. It is a case of the few controlling the many and it is this majority that get frustrated. The few have sold these TPB for big money by having it added to the registry and then claiming it is the "only highest graded copy" during their sale.

 

We agree that the idea of the registry is to include as many collection focuses as possible. If someone requested a TPB set then I don't see who would deny them. If someone requested a TPB be added to a set I compete in then request denied. I believe this satisfies all and gives me a sense of confidence that my collecting effort will not suddenly be undermined.

 

 

Having the kids keep me up all night and then debating a college professor the following night is quite the challenge. lol

 

Enjoy your holiday in the south. (thumbs u

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Your last message clarifies things considerably, and it appears we are actually for the most part on the same page. I might even propose a "DC Trades" set and see what happens (probably not much :D) . See you 'round the Registry!

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  • Administrator

Due to a renewed interest in this subject in the Registry Expansion thread I am sticking this thread for now to ask for help in tracking down & removing all TPB's from sets. Feel free to post your removal requests here or in the Expansion thread.

Thanks for the help everyone!

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Due to a renewed interest in this subject in the Registry Expansion thread I am sticking this thread for now to ask for help in tracking down & removing all TPB's from sets. Feel free to post your removal requests here or in the Expansion thread.

Thanks for the help everyone!

 

Please let us know what is driving this decision at this point as all the recent discussion in the Registry Expansion thread includes opposition to removing TPBs from sets.

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  • Administrator

Based upon the discussion above and in the expansion thread it seems that the trend is to put TPBs in their own sets, which I am OK with, or make them non-competitive which I am also OK with. I haven't made any major changes yet, so the discussion is still open as is the poll above...

Basically I'm not the one you want to argue with, try addressing those who are asking to have them removed and express your counterpoint.

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Any TPB with completely original material should definitely be competitive (for example: Marvel Graphic Novels).

 

TPB compilations with completely reprinted covers and pages can have their own set (if competitive).

 

I would think that any TPB with some NEW material (story and/or artwork by the writer and/or artist can be kept in a competitive set (for example: Wolverine Limited Series TPB which has original classic front and back cover art by Frank Miller, specifically drawn for the TPB).

Edited by Lookin4Newsstands
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Any TPB with completely original material should definitely be competitive (for example: Marvel Graphic Novels).

 

TPB compilations with completely reprinted covers and pages can have their own set (if competitive).

 

I would think that any TPB with some NEW material (story and/or artwork by the writer and/or artist can be kept in a competitive set (for example: Wolverine Limited Series TPB which has original classic front and back cover art by Frank Miller, specifically drawn for the TPB).

 

I agree with Lookin4Newsstands completely in his/her first and second points. People sometimes refer to Prestige Format comics as Trades, but they're original single-story comics, not compilations. I respectfully disagree on the third point: I don't think new cover art changes the nature of a compilation sufficiently to keep it in a competitive set. For example I own a graded copy of "History of the DC Universe" a collection of issues 1 and 2 -- the whole run -- of that series, and it has great new cover art by Alex Ross. But it's still a compilation. In my opinion, it and others like it should go into a Trades/Compilations only set.

 

I also think the "non-competitive" slot ought to be done away with in favor of a trades/compilations set in which they can be put into on a competitive basis.

 

My nickel's worth.

 

Let me go ahead and propose the creation of a new set called "DC Trades and Compilations." I can put my "History of the DC Universe" in it, and those who have the graded Death of Superman compilation as well as the Lois and Clark compilation or others can put them in as well. (Sorry, don't know too much about the Marvel / Image / other publishers side of this).

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