Comic Book Investing

[HighStakesComics]

What I think will be worth more next year than it is today? Star Wars #1-107.

 

OK now we're talking (pulls up sleeves)

 

Rat Queens #1

 

Lets go! lets go! lets go!

 

Still glued to the boards. Wife had to take a call. You know where I stand. Forever People 1=Home Run

[the blob]

You've changed the parameters of that particular discussion. I, too, believe that Detective Comics #27 is one of the best investments in comics there is.

 

---

 

I probably wouldn't be able to sleep at night thinking about my $500K investment that is decomposing inside its slab, but to each their own.

 

That is my main concern about some of these books, are the acid absorbing papers etc. really enough to STOP the process? comics are made out of crappy fragile paper. it worries me on the 60, 70, etc year old stuff.

[the blob]

with that said i have stuff from the 50s that has better page color than books bagged and boarded in the 90s. go figure.

[Petey's Wheatcake]

What I think will be worth more next year than it is today? Star Wars #1-107.

 

Great choice. I definitely agree.

 

This thread has been back on track for three consecutive posts so far!

 

Over/under on whether it lasts a page?

[Jiminy_Cricket-migration]

with that said i have stuff from the 50s that has better page color than books bagged and boarded in the 90s. go figure.

 

Not better than my X-Force # 1's and my Youngblood # 1's. I have multiple copies of each and will be super rich when I decide to finally sell them. Also Spawn # 1. Didn't see that coming, didja?

[ComicConnoisseur]

with that said i have stuff from the 50s that has better page color than books bagged and boarded in the 90s. go figure.

 

Not better than my X-Force # 1's and my Youngblood # 1's. I have multiple copies of each and will be super rich when I decide to finally sell them. Also Spawn # 1. Didn't see that coming, didja?

If Spawn # 1 was bought at cover price or less then you at least doubled your value.

Spawn # 1 even with it million plus print run sells for over cover.

This is without a new movie which will eventually jumpstart Spawn again.

So I am bullish on Spawn # 1.

 

[HighStakesComics]

with that said i have stuff from the 50s that has better page color than books bagged and boarded in the 90s. go figure.

 

Not better than my X-Force # 1's and my Youngblood # 1's. I have multiple copies of each and will be super rich when I decide to finally sell them. Also Spawn # 1. Didn't see that coming, didja?

If Spawn # 1 was bought at cover price or less then you at least doubled your value.

Spawn # 1 even with it million plus print run sells for over cover.

This is without a new movie which will eventually jumpstart Spawn again.

So I am bullish on Spawn # 1.

 

So does that mean Walking Dead #100, arguably the biggest key since #19, can appreciate with its 400,000 issue run?

[KPR Comics]

Walking Dead 100? Wait, what?

[mintcollector]

 

Look, I've seen all kinds of stuff-strutting and "oneupsmanship" in this thread, and think it derailed an otherwise interesting topic. Feels like we have people focused on attacking each other rather than accepting others' opinions. That's just non-productive. RMA/Delek, you are both pretty aggressive with your views, and that's great......but others' views count too, right? One of the things I like about the boards is the sheer aptitude of its "inhabitants"

 

I cannot, and will not, speak for delekkerste, but you have misread my intent (even though I explained it at least once earlier.)

 

Investing in comic books is a bad idea. There is very little, as it pertains to usual methods for computing good and bad investments to suggest otherwise.

 

There is no "attacking" involved, at least on my part. If I see you walking towards a cliff, and I care about you in any way, I'm going to yell at you: "HEY! STOP!!!!"

 

Are you going to get upset that I yelled at you? If you don't see the cliff, probably. You may even think I yelled at you without cause; but the motive was one of concern. If I didn't care, I would laugh, and watch you plummet to your death.

 

And I ask...once more...that people don't look at disagreement as an "attack." This is a terrible problem with these discussions. Just because someone disagrees with you DOES NOT mean they are "attacking" you.

 

We would all do better if we opened our minds to disagreement, without letting our emotions get the better of us.

 

+ Infinitity

 

 

[ciorac]

if we're talking 10, 20, 30 years or more out, I think the real sustainable books...those truly InvestmentGradeKeyComcs are in relatively short supply and reflect characters that draw all geographies, ethnicities etc,

 

I think you are grossly overestimating the appeal of vintage American comics outside of a certain age group of people living in North America and parts of Western Europe. I mean, sure, the movies (dubbed or subtitled) translate across to worldwide audiences, but where is the impetus for the rest of the world to want to own the actual comic books when it's not part of their language, culture or personal history/experience?

 

Gene, I'm not sure what the disposable income percentage is in the US for the last year, but I'd guess somewhere around 3-4%?

 

So let's say you are in a position in life where your DI is around 10%. You've got a good handle on your hedges, 401K, diversified stock portfolio, some precious metals, cash on hand, equity in your home and business. I'd say you are tracking very well to a comfortable retirement.

 

So, if this person chooses to use most, or all, of their 10% DI on choice comic books instead of trips, dining out, or depreciating assets like cars and boats, then comics is a fun and potentially much better use of the DI. Even breaking even is better than you will do with any of the other typical usages. Even a 50% loss, is better than most. But for those who buy what they love, that also turns a 20-50% profit, or better, each time. It has turned DI into an investment that paid dividends.

 

I like, and employ, that strategy

[HighStakesComics]

Walking Dead 100? Wait, what?

 

You think 27 or 58 more key than 100, KPR?

[mintcollector]

Someone posted an article about Pogs and Beanie Babies as bad investment.. Guess what, you could still sell them on eBay and make money, but in comparison to comic books they're just not a good BUSINESS model, but at the end of the day they are collectibles

 

No offense, but if that was all you got out of that article, please go back and reread it. The article was actually entitled 'The Myth of the Guaranteed Collectible' and comic books were mentioned as well. The point of the article was to specifically point out that any kind of 'investment' in any kind of collectible is extremely risky simply due to the fact that in the author's opinion there is no such thing as a 'blue chip' collectible; regardless as to what type of category the collectible was in. The subject of Beanie Babies and POGS was just brought up as a comparison. Personally you could substitute POGs and Beanie Babies for modern age Lego sets to make a similar point.

 

 

 

[Gatsby77]

So, if this person chooses to use most, or all, of their 10% DI on choice comic books instead of trips, dining out, or depreciating assets like cars and boats, then comics is a fun and potentially much better use of the DI. Even breaking even is better than you will do with any of the other typical usages. Even a 50% loss, is better than most. But for those who buy what they love, that also turns a 20-50% profit, or better, each time. It has turned DI into an investment that paid dividends.

 

I like, and employ, that strategy

n

 

This.

 

I'm in a position now where I'm looking to sell most of my collection. _Many_ I will profit on (esp. those amassed in bulk via garage sales and Craig's List - to say that's not a solid investment strategy is ludicrous, but you're right. Scale is hard. It's easy to make $40k-$60k a year dealing comics. It's _really_ hard to make $200k a year doing so unless you're capitalized at many multiples of that). Some I will lose on (but very few more than 20-30%).

 

But what was the opportunity cost of spending that DI on comics? Fewer dates and dinners out, paying cash for a 15 year-old Toyota rather than financing a 3 year-old Lexus, and tons of hours of joy during my weekend/non-working hours playing with collectibles I enjoy.

[KPR Comics]

Walking Dead 100? Wait, what?

 

You think 27 or 58 more key than 100, KPR?

. One of those, yeah kinda. But I'll hang up and listen.

[Aweandlorder]

Someone posted an article about Pogs and Beanie Babies as bad investment.. Guess what, you could still sell them on eBay and make money, but in comparison to comic books they're just not a good BUSINESS model, but at the end of the day they are collectibles

 

No offense, but if that was all you got out of that article, please go back and reread it. The article was actually entitled 'The Myth of the Guaranteed Collectible' and comic books were mentioned as well. The point of the article was to specifically point out that any kind of 'investment' in any kind of collectible is extremely risky simply due to the fact that in the author's opinion there is no such thing as a 'blue chip' collectible; regardless as to what type of category the collectible was in. The subject of Beanie Babies and POGS was just brought up as a comparison. Personally you could substitute POGs and Beanie Babies for modern age Lego sets to make a similar point.

 

 

 

No offense, but if that was all you got out of my post, please go back and reread it. I even highlighted it for ya..

I was elaborating on that point exactly.. Pogs and BB are still selling on eBay, prolly not as well as comics do now, but they still do. That doesnt mean that COLLECTIBLES are a safe investment.. Probably more of a niche market

[delekkerste]

if we're talking 10, 20, 30 years or more out, I think the real sustainable books...those truly InvestmentGradeKeyComcs are in relatively short supply and reflect characters that draw all geographies, ethnicities etc,

 

I think you are grossly overestimating the appeal of vintage American comics outside of a certain age group of people living in North America and parts of Western Europe. I mean, sure, the movies (dubbed or subtitled) translate across to worldwide audiences, but where is the impetus for the rest of the world to want to own the actual comic books when it's not part of their language, culture or personal history/experience?

 

Gene, I'm not sure what the disposable income percentage is in the US for the last year, but I'd guess somewhere around 3-4%?

 

So let's say you are in a position in life where your DI is around 10%. You've got a good handle on your hedges, 401K, diversified stock portfolio, some precious metals, cash on hand, equity in your home and business. I'd say you are tracking very well to a comfortable retirement.

 

So, if this person chooses to use most, or all, of their 10% DI on choice comic books instead of trips, dining out, or depreciating assets like cars and boats, then comics is a fun and potentially much better use of the DI. Even breaking even is better than you will do with any of the other typical usages. Even a 50% loss, is better than most. But for those who buy what they love, that also turns a 20-50% profit, or better, each time. It has turned DI into an investment that paid dividends.

 

I like, and employ, that strategy

 

Well, I can't disagree that putting your money into an investment, even a potentially sub-par investment, versus spending that money on consumable goods, is a better financial strategy (though, IMO, not necessarily a better life strategy).

 

Buying comics because you think the Chinese, Russians and Arabs are going to get into the hobby because of the movies and will take you out of your collection at much higher prices in the future though is simply , which was the point of my above post.

[MrBedrock]

 

I can buy 10,000 shares of Walmart in the next five minutes.

 

Not attacking you here, RMA,...but so what? I know you have stated this in relation to being able to go out and drop investment money on a specific old comic at the drop of a hat. And in an instantaneous interval that may be pertinent. But we are talking about investing in comics over a time frame that makes that line of reasoning moot. And even then, it is still possible to flip comics on a minute to minute and day to day basis and be profitable. If you wish to spend the time and know the market you can profit off of the minute variances in different sales arenas (auction houses vs. eBay vs. these boards vs. want-list customers vs. web-sales). So the "I could buy 10,000 shares of X tomorrow" line of reasoning is not important to this discussion. You could go out and buy any comic you want tomorrow if you are prepared to pay for it. I guarantee you that there is a price at which the MH Action 1 could be had. Would it be a price that would be a sound investment? Who knows.

 

But the key to any investment is research. Do enough research and you can invest in comics and do incredibly well. Don't do enough research and you will lose money. That is something that is not spoken about enough in this thread. Would I recommend that some random person invest in comics? No. But I would recommend that any random person who is interested in investing should go and do their homework. Learn this market. Learn about the cool stuff we get to mess around with and look at daily. Get a real understanding of what comics are and why people enjoy them (and therefore why people collect them). Then, once someone is armed with that knowledge, I would definitely recommend they go and invest their money in comics. Because once they are armed with that knowledge there is no way they could possibly lose money on their investment.

[thehumantorch]

if we're talking 10, 20, 30 years or more out, I think the real sustainable books...those truly InvestmentGradeKeyComcs are in relatively short supply and reflect characters that draw all geographies, ethnicities etc,

 

I think you are grossly overestimating the appeal of vintage American comics outside of a certain age group of people living in North America and parts of Western Europe. I mean, sure, the movies (dubbed or subtitled) translate across to worldwide audiences, but where is the impetus for the rest of the world to want to own the actual comic books when it's not part of their language, culture or personal history/experience?

 

Gene, I'm not sure what the disposable income percentage is in the US for the last year, but I'd guess somewhere around 3-4%?

 

So let's say you are in a position in life where your DI is around 10%. You've got a good handle on your hedges, 401K, diversified stock portfolio, some precious metals, cash on hand, equity in your home and business. I'd say you are tracking very well to a comfortable retirement.

 

So, if this person chooses to use most, or all, of their 10% DI on choice comic books instead of trips, dining out, or depreciating assets like cars and boats, then comics is a fun and potentially much better use of the DI. Even breaking even is better than you will do with any of the other typical usages. Even a 50% loss, is better than most. But for those who buy what they love, that also turns a 20-50% profit, or better, each time. It has turned DI into an investment that paid dividends.

 

I like, and employ, that strategy

 

Nicely said. I think depending on a comic collection as your retirement vehicle is very risky. It could work out but it very likely could be a huge mistake - now may be the historic high price for most comics thanks to all the movies and TV shows. But if you're paying off your home and investing into your RRSP/IRA and truly taking care of business, putting money into comics makes sense.

 

I enjoy owning my comics. I like flipping through them, sorting them, staring at the covers. When the time comes to sell it would be nice if they go for good money but that's a bonus.

[delekkerste]

 

I can't (don't want to) respond to all of this, but copies of blue chip golden age keys can be found in pretty much every large CLink, Heritage and Comic Connect auction. I just clicked on the next Heritage auction and guess what the first book to pop up was? Action 1. Not that hard to find one of the top 10 GA keys. At most it would take a month or two of casually looking through the top auctions to locate one.

 

I can buy 10,000 shares of Walmart in the next five minutes.

 

Doing a quick perusal, it looks like there have been 13 sales of Action #1 through Heritage since 2002, with one pending. At Heritage, at least, that's a little more than one a year. I'll assume that CLink and Comic Connect have pretty much the same average.

 

How does one invest in something that comes up so infrequently, and worse, then have to vigorously compete with others to even be able to obtain it, possibly pushing that asset out of the range of "good investment"...?

 

The only competition for Walmart shares is the price. I suppose the same could be said for Action #1 or any of the others, but buying 10,000 shares isn't going to make much of a blip on the 3.23 billion Walmart shares outstanding.

 

And, even more importantly, there's the obvious fact that virtually everyone in the hobby can invest in Wal-Mart (even if it's only 1 share @ $75) whereas whether Action #1 is a good investment or not is totally irrelevant to 99.999% of would-be comic book investors because they couldn't afford one even if they wanted to!! Same goes with many of the books that are being recommended here. Most people here have 3 and 4 figure budgets, occasionally 5. Not many people can shell out multiple 5, 6 or 7 figures to invest in books - are comics still a great investment for them?

 

And it's not just Av #4 9.6, Hulk #181 9.8, X-Men 94 9.8, GI Joe 21 9.8, GL #76 9.6 etc. that have come down in price. Those are just some of the more notable examples. I collected primarily high-grade Bronze and Copper Age CGC books (my nostalgic sweet spot) from 1999 to 2004 and many of my purchases are underwater now (anyone want to pay $2.1K for my ASM #122 9.6? Do people have idea of what people were paying for slabs before the GPA era and how much some of those books have tanked??) Not that I ever bought with investment in mind (I just bought what I liked), but, still - you'd think that buying desirable CGC books in high grade 10-15 years ago would have yielded a better financial return that it has, no?

 

What about MutantKeys bailing out of his Copper X-Men run before that market tanked? My buddy BronzeBruce thanks his maker that he sold out of a lot of his collection when he did, as a lot of high/highest grade Bronze is now trading at dimes on peak dollar prices. A lot of those highest Census SA Schmell books that were bid up during the Schmell/Brulato arms race didn't fare so well when Schmell cashed out, I'm told, and there are notable other examples of books that tanked upon resale (that guy who sold all those GA Adventures, and people who tried to flip books from one of those big OO collection sales at Heritage come to mind). I'm sure I've taken an overall loss on all the books I bought off the stands since I started collecting in 1983 - 31 freaking years ago!! For every hot book that I bought off the stands that is worth a little today, there are many more that would now be 50 cent or dollar bin fodder at retail and a fraction of that at wholesale. I'm sure I'd be far better off if I had invested that money in traditional investments (again, not that I ever looked at these as investments, except when I was a kid and didn't know any better!)

 

Let's face it - the "average" collector has probably not fared too well investing in comics. Those who have been quasi-dealers, working hard to ferret out collections to buy below market and manipulating books for fun and profit, have fared better financially, though I seriously doubt the gravy train is going to last forever. And, others were just interested in the right stuff at the right time and made money buying and holding over the past few decades as the hobby went from being a small niche to where it is today. But is it repeatable? I feel like a lot of people are looking at what happened to a small % of books and collectors in the past and drawing unrealistic expectations about replicating this feat in the future.

[MrBedrock]

Let's face it - the "average" collector has probably not fared too well investing in comics.

What about the average collector who bought low to mid grade '50s Atlas pre-hero comics five years ago?

What about the average collector who bought Archie comics five years ago?

What about the average collector who bought 50s horror in any grade five years ago?

What about the average collector who bought Neal Adams keys five years ago?

What about the average collector who bought low grade Timely five years ago?

What about the average collector who bought Our Army at War 83 in any grade five years ago?

What about the average collector who bought Walking Dead five years ago?

What about the average collector who bought Preacher five years ago?

What about the average collector who bought low grade Crime Suspenstories 22 five years ago?

What about the average collector who bought low grade golden age Hitler covers five years ago?

What about the average collector who bought low grade AF 15 five years ago?

What about the average collector who bought Rifleman 10 five years ago?

 

I'm sure others can add to this list if you would like.