Colour Guides?

[Tamwood]

Somewhere around here, I have a few (3-4) pages of Avengers "color guides" by Tom Smith. I think it was Tom Smith. I really need to dig these out.

 

Anyway. I recall picking them up from the colorist on eBay a few years ago. They're from the mid-90s run of Avengers by George Perez, and they appear to be small 8.5 x 11 sized photocopies or print-outs of the original inks, which was then colored by the colorist, Tom Smith.

 

I mostly picked them up because at least one of the is also signed by Perez.

 

Are these legitimate pieces of comic art? Is this how comics were colored before computers really came into the picture? I know a scan would be more helpful than my ramblings, but I just moved recently, and I'm not certain where they've been placed.

[malvin]

they are legitimate original art, but valued much less than original pencils.

 

And yes, back in the day before computers (which really isn't that long ago), they had to photocopy the inked art and then the colourist would colour or mark down what colours to use where.

 

Malvin

[Tamwood]

Yeah, I never expected them to be really valuable. I think I paid maybe $15 a piece for them, so...

 

I just wasn't sure if they were considered legitimate OA or not. Thanks for the info!

 

[Matches_Malone]

they are legitimate original art, but valued much less than original pencils.

 

And yes, back in the day before computers (which really isn't that long ago), they had to photocopy the inked art and then the colourist would colour or mark down what colours to use where.

 

Malvin

 

Color guides were never really desirable in the past as the work was created over a photo copy.

 

However inks over a blue line photo copy was never desirable in the past either, but that has changed in the modern age with digital inks and digital coloring. The art of inking over original pencils is slowly going away, and nowadays inks over blue line photo copy is consider authentic original art. (e.g TWD)

 

Will the overall opinion of color guides changed as well along with the price?

 

[jick]

I have seen some color guides go for a lot on eBay.

 

There were two Tom Luth color guides of complete Groo issues that went for over $1000 which is around $50 per page. They were hand colored on photocopies.

 

Right now there is a color guide of a DC Heroes jam by all the legendary artists. It is a photocopy of the original art but hand colored by Tom Ziuko. Seems to be doing very well, and I expect it to hit over $1000 too.

 

I think the Tom Luth color guide sold well because Groo original art is virtually impossible to find since Sergio Aragones holds on to all of them. I think that DC Heroes color guide is doing well because of the cast of characters, the artists, and the fact that the original art will probably never surface or be too expensive to own so at least what is there is still a piece of original art in some regard.

 

But generally, color guides don't really do well and can be had for less than $50 for decent pages.

[Dave Aikins]

As for the Ziuko DC Jam poster-

 

There's a certain amount of difference between a color guide and painted color art with either an acetate overlay, or done in transparent inks with copied line work on the board.

 

The color guides were just that- hand painted guides (done in inks) with call-outs of the limited color codes written all over them. They're done fairly quickly and made so that the separators knew what screens to cut for the printing process.

 

Painted art was shot by camera, creating 4 different plates for cyan, magenta, yellow, and black. the reason the black line was often done as an overlay was to insure that in would stay nice and crisp. In this method, the color art could be painted, have shading and textures and was not limited to a certain amount of colors- no different than printing a photo (except, again, in cases where the black line was on an overly).

 

You definitely get more of a feeling of "art" from the painted color work, as the art tends to be on illustration board, or watercolor paper, and is nice and clean and ready for printing. Often, this color work is more labor intensive- done in airbrush, inks or watercolors.

 

For color guides- they give off more of a disposable vibe- being done on thin paper, and are full of notes and color call-out numbers.

 

All of this was done by incredibly skilled and talented people...but geez I'm glad technology has changed. Cutting overlays was a pain in the !

 

[Dave Aikins]

Also note that while digital art is now the norm for most comics, some colorists like Tom Smith would still do a small color guide by hand before coloring the page digitally. These would not have any color call-out numbers written on them, as that's not need for digital coloring.

 

I have a color guide from Tom for a page from JLA/Avengers that I own the original art to. He also included a quick ink-jet print-out of the digital color. If I remember correctly, it cost me $15.

[Sharkey]

I anticipate more people collecting hand-colored color guides for a number of reasons. I collect them just because they are cool, and are a part of that particular comic's unique production process. I own the color guides to some stories that for me are pretty seminal in comic history that I'll likely never be able to find (or afford) a page of OA from. So although I don't own the art, I do feel like I own a piece of what made those comics so special. A couple other things that I like about color guides:

 

1. They are hand-done, so they have an artistic aspect to them (they aren't OA in the sense of the penciled and inked pages, but they are a big part of what makes a comic great).

 

2. They are (usually) one of a kind

 

3. They are considerably less expensive compared to original art.

 

Colorists haven't achieved the rock star status of the artists, and in general seem to be pretty underappreciated for what they contributed to the comics, so I hope that as people begin to realize this, there will be more recognition of their part in the comic creation process. The artist, writer, and inker get a lot of love. And that's completely appropriate. But boy, a good colorist can make their vision really pop.

 

[Catwoman_Fan]

Some companies like Valiant Comics (early 90s) actually published their comics from the painted pages. So, their colored pages are not guides, but true original art. Painted pages /covers for Valiant are quite collectible to a small audience.

 

Some colorists were true artists, trying to limit themselves to the primitive comic book production colors.

 

But many color guides are not as collectible, marred by color codes and coloring outside the lines. Some dealers are trying to sell guides on ebay for more than the ink pages would go for. That's misleading to collectors. Interiors guides generally sell for $15 - 20/page.

 

I have a few color guides, for characters I like but could not find original art for. As example, my Graham Nolan Bane splash was $50, the guide is gorgeous, with rich colors, and the color codes on an overlay.

 

Also I picked up a Bronze Age Batman cover guide for about $100. Its great to have a piece of Batman history from that time for less than an original art page. Heck, the original Cover art would run several thousand. Even color guides for Neal Adams pages may be a few hundred. A very affordable way to get an example of his art from his prime period (even if it's just a photo copy).

 

[r100comics]

I anticipate more people collecting hand-colored color guides for a number of reasons. I collect them just because they are cool, and are a part of that particular comic's unique production process. I own the color guides to some stories that for me are pretty seminal in comic history that I'll likely never be able to find (or afford) a page of OA from. So although I don't own the art, I do feel like I own a piece of what made those comics so special. A couple other things that I like about color guides:

 

1. They are hand-done, so they have an artistic aspect to them (they aren't OA in the sense of the penciled and inked pages, but they are a big part of what makes a comic great).

 

2. They are (usually) one of a kind

 

3. They are considerably less expensive compared to original art.

 

Colorists haven't achieved the rock star status of the artists, and in general seem to be pretty underappreciated for what they contributed to the comics, so I hope that as people begin to realize this, there will be more recognition of their part in the comic creation process. The artist, writer, and inker get a lot of love. And that's completely appropriate. But boy, a good colorist can make their vision really pop.

 

 

+1

 

On the bolded part though I'd say the color guides are almost always unique.

 

I've seen many color guides colored over a copy of the pencils, because timelines were so tight they couldn't wait for the pages to be inked, so there's no way they're waiting for the colorist to have a 2nd crack at the guides.

 

They can make tweaks when the proofs are produced but the colorist actually carries a huge responsibility in creating the mood and look of the finished comic.

 

In terms of values, color guides pretty much mirror OA but at a much cheaper level. Complete guides can sell for under $100 or for $1,000's depending on content, significance, artist etc.

 

For those with the time and patience to sell by the page though, there's money to be made. Here's a post from my "Vintage Color Guides sales thread" in Mixed forum.

 

 

 

Take these 2 for $850 ($19 per page)

 

P PARKER SPIDER-MAN #10 ORIGINAL COLOR GUIDE ART (23 PAGES) JOHN ROMITA JR VENOM $600

 

P PARKER SPIDER-MAN #16 ORIGINAL COLOR GUIDE ART (22 PAGES) JOHN ROMITA JR VENOM $425

 

I've often mentioned the profit that can be made by those who split my color guides up and re-sell them by the page, but here's a great example.

 

These two guides were offered to the boards at $850 for 44 pages = $19 per page.

 

HERE'S WHAT THEY RE-SOLD FOR BY THE PAGE.......!

 

The buyer re-couped over $2,000 for just half the pages.

 

 

 

[Mycroft]

You also buy original lettering.

 

I bought some from Todd Klein's website, for fun.