Torn about this AF15

[joeypost]

 

A book can be damaged anywhere along the trail on its way to encapsulation.

 

Shipping to CGC or a pressing company.

While being pressed at the presser. just wanted it to be a fair list

Shipping from the pressing company to CGC. (That's why I drive the books).

While the package is being opened at CGC.

While the book is being reviewed for restoration or having its pages counted.

In between grading and encapsulation.

 

Unless you have pictures or confirmation along each of these steps there is no way to tell where the damage occurred.

 

Thanks for adding that. I should have done that myself to begin with.

[roulette44]

When it comes to the elite community of pressing professionals, I would assume the offering of a "Screen" service would include one or both of:

a) pre-screen to a particular grade minimum

b) screen a raw book for resto

 

There isn't (or shouldn't be) c) look at the book, make sure pressing it is smart. I agree that the customer should know something about what to send in, but the presser is not going to blindly take a $5K book and press it.

 

In this particular case, I agree with the earlier comments, that the book was equally likely a 2.5 when originally purchased. And in its currnet state, couldn't it be resubbed and earn a 2.5?

 

It's a clean looking low grade copy, no other major issues.....don't see that book getting a 1.8 (just my opinion), so maybe the OP ought to roll dem bones one more time :shrug:?

 

OTOH - selling it as is - a nice presenting 2.0, probably yields the same amount anyways.........that that might be the best way to go.

 

Sorry for the frustration, the OP has gone through an emotional ordeal! But you probably learned a valuable lesson!!

 

Cheers

Joey

 

 

[Jim M]

While damage could happen anywhere along the way, I think it is pretty clear that it happened during pressing here. The email doesn't deny it either. Just that he didn't check off the "please don't destroy my book" box. The spine split further and both staples became detached.

 

For the record, Joey is the only one I would send my books to. He is always up front about the risks with a given book ahead of time and doesn't make you pay $5 extra for him to pay attention to his job (thumbs u

Pretty clear?

 

This coming from the guy who said the customer should assume it would have happened based on the condition?

 

I say pretty clear because I would kind of expect it to happen based on the defects of the book pre-press combined with what I know about pressing.

[oakman29]

While damage could happen anywhere along the way, I think it is pretty clear that it happened during pressing here. The email doesn't deny it either. Just that he didn't check off the "please don't destroy my book" box. The spine split further and both staples became detached.

 

For the record, Joey is the only one I would send my books to. He is always up front about the risks with a given book ahead of time and doesn't make you pay $5 extra for him to pay attention to his job (thumbs u

Pretty clear?

 

This coming from the guy who said the customer should assume it would have happened based on the condition?

 

I say pretty clear because I would kind of expect it to happen based on the defects of the book pre-press combined with what I know about pressing.

You -u-me a lot of things.Go play with 5 dollar books.

[Jim M]

While damage could happen anywhere along the way, I think it is pretty clear that it happened during pressing here. The email doesn't deny it either. Just that he didn't check off the "please don't destroy my book" box. The spine split further and both staples became detached.

 

For the record, Joey is the only one I would send my books to. He is always up front about the risks with a given book ahead of time and doesn't make you pay $5 extra for him to pay attention to his job (thumbs u

Pretty clear?

 

This coming from the guy who said the customer should assume it would have happened based on the condition?

 

I say pretty clear because I would kind of expect it to happen based on the defects of the book pre-press combined with what I know about pressing.

You -u-me a lot of things.Go play with 5 dollar books.

[SNiPER]

To me there are six major points of contact with the book like Joey says.

 

1. The Presser unpacking the book

 

2. The Presser pressing the book

 

3. The Presser packing the book

 

4. CGC unpacking the book

 

5. CGC grading the book

 

6. CGC packing the book

 

I’m going to assume when shipping a raw AF15 that the OP took his time and shipped a bulletproof package!

 

The problem is without knowing the procedures in place for preventing or internally reporting or video confirmation of each step for either one of these companies it’s impossible to find what caused the damage.

 

My question would first be to the Presser to explain their procedure step by step from opening the package, to the pressing steps involved (less “trade secrets” of course) and how it is physically packed and shipped.

 

The next question would be who handled the book? Did anyone note anything from the beginning to the end of the job process? Is there any procedure for reporting concerns regarding a book in the production line process? Is the book opened and closed, pages checked, Etc.

 

Is it standard procedure to not note a detached cover on a press only job? Are there even any note takers?

 

I would think when an AF15 comes in to get pressed and if the cover was detached, it would at least raise an eyebrow maybe? At least maybe jog someone’s memory as to whether or not they actually handled a detached cover AF15 that day? Or did it just go through unchecked never to be seen again?

 

I would ask the same of CGC, may not get an answer from either one but I would ask?

 

If you can’t find out “what happened” ask questions about what “didn’t happen” and it might get you closer to the answer ☺

 

[Old Fashion PB and J]

Why in the heck would you even want to handle that book, forget about pressing. Hoping it made the trip in the mail would be enough.

[JollyComics]

I saw your book was in a Mylar bag. I don't think the pressing is a big factor.

 

Do you remember CGC asks us to not pack the comic book in the Mylar bags? CGC prefers the normal bags so the books can slide out or put easily without further damages. I have followed their instructions ever since I joined with CGC.

 

I am aware of the benefit of using the Mylar bag that doesn't have any acid in it that would affect the comic book but I have experienced difficult handles with the Mylar bags. It is little hard to put the book inside it or pull it out.

 

I have a feeling that your AF 15 cover was about to be detached at one or both staples anytime soon. The bottom of the Mylar bag is very tight that may grab the cover while pulling it out. The cover was detached. The Mylar may have statics that book may stuck to it.

 

I see why CGC asks us to NOT use the Mylar Bags. I always test it if the book is being stuck at the bottom of the Mylar bag then I have to cut the both sides of the bag. I open the bag and bend it at the bottom of the bag so I can free the book without being damaged.

 

I am sorry that your book's cover was detached but I think you should keep it for few more years if the value is still going up.

[DR.X]

It happens, especially if the book slides around in the bag,and is not secure when it is packed in the box.

 

This, I thinks its pretty hard to split a spine or detach a cover if the books is taped solidly to the cardboard and is in a fairly tight bag.

 

I would also add this, and not saying it has anything to do with this particular book. When some books start getting light tan, or tan pages, many of them start to lose much of the flexibility of the paper. Pages and cover.

 

Its not hard at all to pop a cover off one staple or both if you open them up a bit to far. Another thing I learned the hard way.

[JollyComics]

It happens, especially if the book slides around in the bag,and is not secure when it is packed in the box.

 

This, I thinks its pretty hard to split a spine or detach a cover if the books is taped solidly to the cardboard and is in a fairly tight bag.

 

I would also add this, and not saying it has anything to do with this particular book. When some books start getting light tan, or tan pages, many of them start to lose much of the flexibility of the paper. Pages and cover.

 

Its not hard at all to pop a cover off one staple or both if you open them up a bit to far. Another thing I learned the hard way.

 

It happened to me twice. From that I learned the hard way but it didn't cost my fortunate. Then it was fortunately not AF 15 that I handled. Probably, losing $500 to $1000 a tear is definitely a hard lesson to learn too.

[Quicksilver Signs]

I think one of the problem with today's pressing services is the fact it's been Wal-marted to the point where people are charging as little as 5 bucks to press a book. So many guys coming out of the woodwork offering cheap pressing bringing the price and quality down.

[Diamonddave]

FYI for all who posted and PM'd me about this book, I have been offered a refund on the cost of the press for this particular book.

[Matt Nelson]

Hi All. This book was submitted through CCS. I called Dave, left a voicemail, and also emailed him as of Thursday, so I'm not sure why he made this post only two days ago. The book was not screened before pressing. It was also not previously CGC graded, so there was no definitive way to tell when or how the staples popped. I do check all books before they leave here, but at that point, I would not be able to tell how the cover came loose.

 

The book has a good bit of damage besides the detached staples, so I'm not really sure what effect this had on the grade.

 

This is a good time to reiterate, please PLEASE be cautious about submitting tanned or fragile books, especially if they have weak spines. If you have any doubt, utilize the screening service. Otherwise, it's going to get pressed. There are many times I will reject books during the process, but only if I catch them. And even then there are books that split or pop without warning (like those '60s DC books that have notorious staple pops for no reason).

 

Matt

[Sqeggs]

Hi All. This book was submitted through CCS. I called Dave, left a voicemail, and also emailed him as of Thursday, so I'm not sure why he made this post only two days ago. The book was not screened before pressing. It was also not previously CGC graded, so there was no definitive way to tell when or how the staples popped. I do check all books before they leave here, but at that point, I would not be able to tell how the cover came loose.

 

The book has a good bit of damage besides the detached staples, so I'm not really sure what effect this had on the grade.

 

This is a good time to reiterate, please PLEASE be cautious about submitting tanned or fragile books, especially if they have weak spines. If you have any doubt, utilize the screening service. Otherwise, it's going to get pressed. There are many times I will reject books during the process, but only if I catch them. And even then there are books that split or pop without warning (like those '60s DC books that have notorious staple pops for no reason).

 

Matt

 

Not to be argumentative, but I'm wondering whether screening before pressing might be thought of as serving two purposes:

 

1. Can defects in this book be improved with a press? (this would be the service people would receive when paying for a screen)

 

2. Is the book too fragile to be pressed?

 

It seems as if 2. is something many submitters would hope to receive feedback on without having to pay for it. Otherwise I'm left wondering whether:

 

a) books are being pressed even though the person doing the pressing realizes there is a significant likelihood of the book being damaged but presses it anyway because the submitter didn't pay for a screen

 

or

 

b) the pressing process is so hurried that the presser isn't bothering to look the book over first to see whether a press is likely to damage it

 

Just my thoughts on this episode.

[Diamonddave]

Hi All. This book was submitted through CCS. I called Dave, left a voicemail, and also emailed him as of Thursday, so I'm not sure why he made this post only two days ago. The book was not screened before pressing. It was also not previously CGC graded, so there was no definitive way to tell when or how the staples popped. I do check all books before they leave here, but at that point, I would not be able to tell how the cover came loose.

 

The book has a good bit of damage besides the detached staples, so I'm not really sure what effect this had on the grade.

 

This is a good time to reiterate, please PLEASE be cautious about submitting tanned or fragile books, especially if they have weak spines. If you have any doubt, utilize the screening service. Otherwise, it's going to get pressed. There are many times I will reject books during the process, but only if I catch them. And even then there are books that split or pop without warning (like those '60s DC books that have notorious staple pops for no reason).

 

Matt

 

I made the post because you did not reply to my email of 07-01 nor have you replied to the email I sent today, even though you clearly have access to the means to do so.

[vaillant]

Hi All. This book was submitted through CCS. I called Dave, left a voicemail, and also emailed him as of Thursday, so I'm not sure why he made this post only two days ago. The book was not screened before pressing. It was also not previously CGC graded, so there was no definitive way to tell when or how the staples popped. I do check all books before they leave here, but at that point, I would not be able to tell how the cover came loose.

 

The book has a good bit of damage besides the detached staples, so I'm not really sure what effect this had on the grade.

 

This is a good time to reiterate, please PLEASE be cautious about submitting tanned or fragile books, especially if they have weak spines. If you have any doubt, utilize the screening service. Otherwise, it's going to get pressed. There are many times I will reject books during the process, but only if I catch them. And even then there are books that split or pop without warning (like those '60s DC books that have notorious staple pops for no reason).

 

Matt

 

Not to be argumentative, but I'm wondering whether screening before pressing might be thought of as serving two purposes:

 

1. Can defects in this book be improved with a press? (this would be the service people would receive when paying for a screen)

 

2. Is the book too fragile to be pressed?

 

It seems as if 2. is something many submitters would hope to receive feedback on without having to pay for it. Otherwise I'm left wondering whether:

 

a) books are being pressed even though the person doing the pressing realizes there is a significant likelihood of the book being damaged but presses it anyway because the submitter didn't pay for a screen

 

or

 

b) the pressing process is so hurried that the presser isn't bothering to look the book over first to see whether a press is likely to damage it

 

Just my thoughts on this episode.

 

Precisely what I thought… I am not familiar with these treatments, but I would expect someone to tell me if the book is deemed to delicate (and potentially subject to damage) if I ask for that.

[budsbundy]

[Hibou]

And here comes the popcorn...

[VintageComics]

Do we know for certain that the book was damaged from pressing and not shipping or handling?

[Diamonddave]

Do we know for certain that the book was damaged from pressing and not shipping or handling?

The week of 06-16 I received an email from Cynthia Ritchie at CCS that the order had been received safe for what it is worth, no indication of damage to the container. I sent the AF15 and a Tales to Astonish 13 in the same container, in a top loader. The TTA 13 looks to be in exactly the same condition as when it was sent, no tears that were not present when the book was sent to CCS.