Torn about this AF15

[Quicksilver Signs]

Well the first slabs are supposedly rolling out Monday So we should see some at auction within a week after that

[W16227]

Pressing is a gamble and can cause the grade to drop due to damage. It's a possibility. The OP should have known this and paid for the pre-screening for extra assurance. The business is quite clear about this. I think it's unfortunate, but ultimately this was the OP's fault.

 

Matt Nelson: "I did look at the book beforehand and determined it was safe to press."

 

So paying for the screen would have made no difference.

 

Both Nelson and Metro (who sold him the book) thought the book was safe to press. Turns out they were wrong, but it wasn't foolish of the OP to have had the book pressed.

So even the two experts got it wrong. Two experts with decades of experience.

Really I can`t blame the OP. Two experts told him it was safe to press.

 

 

Problem is that many are thinking of the experts evaluation as 100% fact. "Safe" does not mean guaranteed.

 

A better way to think about it - the experts evaluation was that the book was "not UNSAFE to press". That is - in their opinion, the book would not be damaged by the process.

 

Any manipulation of older books runs a risk of additional damage - the whole shipping - pressing - grading - return shipping process has a LOT of different activities going on. The restoration check alone is harsh on the spine area.

 

I would not imagine that the process varies much for pressing older books - so the chief variable is the book itself. There are too many potential problem areas to list that might not be visible to the eye.

 

Anyone wanting that 100% guarantee of a successful press or money back for any value slip - realistically you would have to have a graded comic first - then submit - and have to pay what I would imagine is a significant up-charge for inspection testing and insurance of the book- and that would be if the pressing companies even wanted to offer this.

 

 

 

 

 

[Mark 1]

This wasn't Matt's fault from what I can see. It was a fragile yet very expensive book. Pressing it had a chance of damage.

 

If the cover ripped in half or the interior was somehow damaged, perhaps I'd say they were at fault. But pressing is manipulation to the comic paper and things happen that nobody can predict and staples popping is a real possibility on a fragile comic.

 

I feel badly for the OP and whatever losses this will incur. It stinks but anytime you send your comics to someone else to handle...it's a risk.

[Mark 1]

Pick your poison. CGC monopoly or PGX. PGX screw over is just a little cheaper.

The CGC monopoly is at an end.

 

 

Maybe... maybe not.

 

It will be a delicate balance that he has to keep. The longevity of any other company will depend on how the market responds to a CGC and another company's book at auction at the same grade and page quality while the books look identical. Sad to say, but I think the litmus will be when we see another company's New Mutant's 98 in a 9.8 vs a CGC NM98 in a 9.8. It cannot be anything like an ASM129 or Hulk 181 where some may point to a slight miswrap as a defect. It will have to be a book that when graded a 9.8 usually looks the part. If the CGC book continually commands more money at auction, then people MAY start to abandon sending in high grade books to any other company but CGC.

 

From what i've seen, a lot of high end valuable comics are being sent their way. It will be interesting.

[Shawn Low]

Hi All. This book was submitted through CCS. I called Dave, left a voicemail, and also emailed him as of Thursday, so I'm not sure why he made this post only two days ago. The book was not screened before pressing. It was also not previously CGC graded, so there was no definitive way to tell when or how the staples popped. I do check all books before they leave here, but at that point, I would not be able to tell how the cover came loose.

 

Matt

 

Matt,

 

Why do you say that there's no definitive way to know when or how the staples popped? If it was popped when it arrived, you would know (unless you don't check books prior to pressing?).

 

If it popped during the press, you would know (unless you don't check books during and after the pressing?).

 

Matt, you also say you that check all books before they leave your hands post-press. Was the cover detached then?

 

If it wasn't, then it clearly survived the press and got detached after (en route to CGC/OP or at CGC etc).

 

If not, the cover got detached during your press and how then is that not a definitive way to know when it popped??

 

[Boba]

 

The fee is waived if using CCS (which I wasn't aware of). Again, I am just throwing this out if the presser (whoever it was) had a similar service or disclaimer which puts the burden on the submitter to ensure the book is a good candidate.

 

 

Store credit is nice but it really doesn't 'compensate' the submitter.

 

Bob, my post was only wondering if the presser does screen prior to pressing or has something similar to CCS where the burden for good pressing candidates is on the submitter.

 

Looking back at CCS services, I note that the max value for QuickPress is $200 so this wasn't even an option if that was the service used. My error for throwing this out there.

 

 

Yeah, I can almost guarantee this wasn't a CCS press job. Although I do press some of my own stuff I've used Matt on a couple higher value books that I felt needed his expertise. The submitter would have gotten a call.

 

 

He did say almost

 

 

I don't think the question is whether or not Matt knows how to work the press. I'm sure there are plenty of guys here that would vouch for that. Most upgrades you won't hear about. The client is too busy counting their money or admiring their favorite books in higher grade.

 

I did say in an even earlier post that I learned the hard way about pressing books with spine splits. More often than not, it doesn't end well. That said, I have total sympathy for the OP. To have this happen on a gem like an AF 15 has to be painful and he seems like a real good guy. I hope he makes his money back double on the next one and doesn't give up on the hobby.

 

In conclusion, even Babe Ruth would strike out, Michael Jordan missed jumpers, Tiger Woods neglected hookers; etc. I'm sure Matt himself would tell you this wasn't his best work. If there wasn't an element of risk and every book came back a 9.6-9.8, our scarcest collectibles would not command the premiums they do in the marketplace today. To put it bluntly, there is no such thing as a sure thing and there is no upside without risk (except one year cd's at .4% and even then only up to $250k).

 

And, yes, I do feel like a schmuck as well.

 

You shouldn't it was an honest mistake.

 

I've had a lot of books pressed by Matt and others, and I too have benefitted by it. I have also had a stinker or two. It happens

 

I recall they were lower-grade books and probably not the best candidates for pressing, but I took the shot

 

This has to be a judgement call by the owner - look at the book and decide if it's worth the risk to have the book pressed.

 

But to blame the pressers for everything is not fair.

 

Looking at that book raw, I never would have risked having it pressed

 

 

[sacentaur]

In their estimation, and in mine the book could have used a press to increase its presentation.

 

Whenever a seller makes this claim - especially on a raw, high-ticket book such as this - alarm bells should start ringing because something is fishy.

 

The end result was unfortunate, but not all that unexpected.

[Shawn Low]

 

 

[4comix]

Does Matt do ALL the pressing for the company?

No.

 

With all the volume, Matt has trained a bunch of monkeys to do all the pressing for him.

 

I liken it to Mr. Burns:

 

 

 

HELLO??? did everyone just glance over this post to get there 2 cents in either to defend or crucify Matt? that's the problem right there! id be willing to bet he didn't personally press this book! but because it's his company did he will take the fall as he did. at the end of the day the minute they sold the company to CGC this was destined to happen... it went from mom-and-pop Corporation just like anything else in the world it's exactly what happens more important turnover dollars that is quality it's quantity over quality money over respect... this is a prime example why guys like Joey post and hero restoration always have clients because they won't sell out... and when they do if they do will be another joey posts and another hero restoration but steps up in their place but until then those of the only two guys I would trust with my books period.

[comicdonna]

[JollyComics]

I have the similar problems with mycomicshop.com in past.

 

They told me there were several damages that shocked me sometimes even I packed the comic books in the bomb proof packages. Their grades checked in and I was surprised to see the grades then I called for the explanations. They did but they won't tell me who.

 

Either they handled them or USPS handled the package. I am not complaining because there were only few dollars differences.

 

I moved on.

 

You can't blame entirely on Matt Nelson for the detached cover. I believe it was moved inside the Mylar bag while the package was moved around through USPS locations and transportations. I saw two or three USPS trucks were involved in accidents on the same highways during the night shifts. How often did the package shake, bump, pile up and drop before arriving at CCS? Mylar bags did not hold the books well.

 

Comicconnect.com owns the truck so they don't have to worry about them at all even many books were in the Mylar bags.

 

Think about the Mylar bags. You ignored the fact about the Mylar bags before going on on this topic.

 

[ChrisInBaltimore]

 

Hey he was agreeing with me. He deserves a +1 for that alone!

[JollyComics]

 

Hey he was agreeing with me. He deserves a +1 for that alone!

 

I had to do it. +2 plus Matt is extremely damned nice.

[4comix]

 

what does that snake face thing even mean? im not down with the boards lingo

[4comix]

 

Hey he was agreeing with me. He deserves a +1 for that alone!

 

I had to do it. +2 plus Matt is extremely damned nice.

 

The bottom line... They probably have more work than they can handle, sub out other guys to press and like any thing else there is a learning curve...and you in most cases you learn by making mistakes....this book like my FF2 was a mistake...whether it happened in shipping to him or pressing doesn't matter! when it hit his table the client should have been notified on a book of that magnitude. There are posts about him running into shrinking covers, popping staple, over hydrating and creating rust halos (I had 2/3 listed) ....that sounds like learning curve problems not something a seasoned vet runs into...BUT with CGC cracking to whip to mush MORE books MORE money Matt is just a victim of the system...im sure he's a great guy I have never met him and as a business man myself I have at times sold a weaker product to put more food on my families table and at the end of the day business is business and you gotta eat... so you can write what you will about me but if you take a step back and realize that CCS like McDonalds or Walmart the customer service and quality of craftsmanship falls as you expand its Business 101 so you can mock me or attempt to discredit my thesis all you want but the numbers never lie...there will be more complaints as this company grows, you mark my words. Restoration removal hes great as he works hand in hand with CGC but pressing wise enter at your own risk.

[sacentaur]

You can't blame entirely on Matt Nelson for the detached cover.

 

Agreed, I'm actually having difficulty assigning any blame to Matt at all.

 

It's a shame that the OP fell for the infamous 'Could benefit from a press' disingenuous sales pitch when based on the results, the raw book was at such risk.

 

The OP also didn't contract for a pre-screen on an expensive book; CCS performed the exact service that they were asked to perform.

 

It's hard to imagine the high volume of books that CCS handles, and manipulating any book comes with inherent risks (to go along with the rewards to glee over) - there are no 100% foolproof guarantees.

 

I feel bad for the OP, but also feel that the situation could have been avoided and it's unfair to blame Matt for the end result.