Comic Con - Geeks for consent

[Amadeus Arkham]

Cosplay is not walking around with a sign "asking for it". It's your individual way of expressing and celebrating your fandom. For the past few Halloweens I've gone as comic characters (Riddler, Tim Drake, and Gambit this year, cher) and I do it for fun and to see how accurate of a costume I can cobble together from stuff at Goodwill and costume shops. These girls that cosplay work hard on their costumes and they have the right to show off what they've accomplished without fear of being groped, photographed without their consent or any other things. Is there hooking up at Comic Con? Undoubtedly. But there must be consent between the two adults before so.

[Treco]

Please do not misconstrue what I'm about to say, Nobody should be harassed in ANY manner for ANY reason. It's always unacceptable, period.

 

So i too think that the "asking for it" part is BS. I will however point out that there should be some discretion exercised as well.

 

Your proud of your body and want to show off, fine, you like Black Cat and she dresses provocatively, that's fine too. Yet there is still something left to be said about discretion and judgement.

 

There is a line between a "sexy" character and a "slutty" character. Again, the asking for it part is complete bs, 100% agreement, but if you dress like a "slutty" character at a place where the crowd is stereotypically under sexed geeks who like over sexed characters, your not helping the situation either.

 

Does that mean they're asking for it? Absolutely not, but there is a difference between parking your nice car in the shady part of town wearing your nice clothes, and parking in the shady part of town with the keys in the ignition, walking down the street counting you money out loud.

 

Your never asking for it, but in one of the aforementioned scenarios you certainly aren't doing your part to mitigate the variables.

 

I'm am not saying the victims deserve any fraction of the blame under ANY circumstance, they absolutely do not. I am saying don't throw gasoline onto the fire.

 

Very well thought and written.

Besides this, I never liked cosplay – as a kid I always dressed up as some character (not necessarily comics) during the traditional italian carnevale (a period before Lent) but I always thought the way cosplay became fashionable has something silly to it. I started attending conventions in Italy when I was 14 or so and cosplay was something basically inherited (passively) just in recent (last ten) years. Something that might in some way belong to japanese culture (in its root) but hardly to explain for me when I think of the USA.

I surely would not have been crazy to see adult people dressed as superheroes and superheroines when I went to comics conventions as a kid.

 

A similar thing happened with Halloween, a festivity which has nothing to do with our culture, and has rooted here recently chiefly thanks to commercial speculations.

 

I personally don't understand the whole cosplay thing. I grew up in the 70's and 80's. Comic book conventions were quite a different scene then. I'm not saying that things should never change, but I just relish the low key local conventions I attended. A rented gymnasium, folding tables & chairs, and (gasp) books. Sounds boring, but it was magic to me.

[Davenport]

These girls that cosplay work hard on their costumes and they have the right to show off what they've accomplished without fear of being groped, photographed without their consent or any other things. Is there hooking up at Comic Con? Undoubtedly. But there must be consent between the two adults before so.

Guess I'm a 'Geek for CONtext' and a 'Geek for IROny'. Here's a little of both...

 

Sandy Cohen Associated Press

 

@APSandy @GeeksForCONsent

I'm the Ironman Leia in the pic attached to the article, used without my consent--ironic. #nothappy

 

@APSandy

Disappointed that a picture of me was used to head a sexual harassment article you penned about SDCC. Wish I wasn't associated.

 

Sexual Harassment at ComicCon? Not until the AP Article was written!

 

"They have already tweeted the article author, the AP, and Geeks for CONsent to try and get the image removed as the headliner, and/or solicit a formal apology in the article itself for using the image out of context. If any of you fellow cosplayers would like to join the effort, my wife's twitter handle is @libbyputnam ."

[Shadow Images]

The biggest thing I have a problem with is the "you have to ask me for a photo" Please give us all a brake, if you didn't want to be photographed you wouldn't be out in costume and want the attention. Having someone take your picture is not the same as someone groping you( which is never tolerable).

[CKB]

I've only gone to the Boston Comic Cons, so cosplay isn't as huge there yet. There are some great costumes both men and women, but I can't understand why someone would feel they have the right to grope or molest another person.

 

There are always attractive women at a beach, but you don't see them getting groped there, why do they feel they can do it at a con? That's nuts.

 

Definitely goes on in Boston, I've seen it. And attempted to help stop it, of course.

 

[General Zod]

The biggest thing I have a problem with is the "you have to ask me for a photo" Please give us all a brake, if you didn't want to be photographed you wouldn't be out in costume and want the attention. Having someone take your picture is not the same as someone groping you( which is never tolerable).

 

I can understand that but some of them say they want to show off the costume in a pose of their choosing. No one really wins.

[Sauce Dog]

The biggest thing I have a problem with is the "you have to ask me for a photo" Please give us all a brake, if you didn't want to be photographed you wouldn't be out in costume and want the attention. Having someone take your picture is not the same as someone groping you( which is never tolerable).

 

You are allowed to take pictures of people in public but the manner you do so in is the issue. If you are following girls (maybe even not backing off when asked) taking creepy up skirt shots or muttering sexist comments to yourself or friends while doing so then that person might start feeling uncomfortable - which is harassment.

 

Just because I like to dress nice each day does NOT mean I want my photograph taken, nor does it apply to a setting where girls are finally comfortable expressing their love of characters by dressing up. The expression of the fandom does not imply a consent to anything else you think you are entitled too.

 

Just because it isn't the same has being grouped does not make it any less an action that could constitute harassment and make a person feel uncomfortable.

 

Have some decent manners, be a decent human being, and just ask permission. It just seems lots of people lack basic people skills in these cases.

[Sauce Dog]

There is a line between a "sexy" character and a "slutty" character.

 

You are in no position to decide such a line, and by that impose any ideas of consent or definition of what constitutes acceptable 'harassment'. When someone feels comfortable enough to express themselves in such a way that is just it, their own expression and it does not imply any consent to harassment.

 

Sexy or slutty, it does not matter, be a decent human being and don't harass them.

 

How they dress does not excuse your actions or poor attitude.

 

 

[revat]

There is a line between a "sexy" character and a "slutty" character.

 

You are in no position to decide such a line, and by that impose any ideas of consent or definition of what constitutes acceptable 'harassment'. When someone feels comfortable enough to express themselves in such a way that is just it, their own expression and it does not imply any consent to harassment.

 

Sexy or slutty, it does not matter, be a decent human being and don't harass them.

 

How they dress does not excuse your actions or poor attitude.

 

 

I disagree with the first part.

I think we all have the right to decide for ourselves who is slutty, who is sexy, who is fat, ugly, etc, based on our own morals and preferences and experiences.

 

What we don't have the right to do is treat someone with disrespect because of our judgments.

 

 

[Sauce Dog]

There is a line between a "sexy" character and a "slutty" character.

 

You are in no position to decide such a line, and by that impose any ideas of consent or definition of what constitutes acceptable 'harassment'. When someone feels comfortable enough to express themselves in such a way that is just it, their own expression and it does not imply any consent to harassment.

 

Sexy or slutty, it does not matter, be a decent human being and don't harass them.

 

How they dress does not excuse your actions or poor attitude.

 

 

I disagree with the first part.

I think we all have the right to decide for ourselves who is slutty, who is sexy, who is fat, ugly, etc, based on our own morals and preferences and experiences.

 

What we don't have the right to do is treat someone with disrespect because of our judgments.

 

 

Agreed. We are free to form our own opinions, I just mean to bring up the major stigma with slut-shaming which is often associated with labelling a woman 'sexy' or 'slutty', and saying someone looks slutty is rather crude and is only ever a negative label.

[chrisco37]

What we don't have the right to do is treat someone with disrespect because of our judgments.

 

 

Apparently, I've been doing it all wrong.

[Dr. Balls]

Just because I like to dress nice each day does NOT mean I want my photograph taken, nor does it apply to a setting where girls are finally comfortable expressing their love of characters by dressing up. The expression of the fandom does not imply a consent to anything else you think you are entitled too.

 

No, it does not mean that, but the fact that you are either A) in a public place or B) in a place that does not have restrictions of photography - it means anyone can take your photograph whether you like it or not. It's just one of the costs of living in our society.

 

Women get groped on the Subway in NYC. Or leered at. Or catcalled. Yeah, it sucks to be a woman in modern society. I'd rather be dead myself - but I get it and I sympathize. All joking aside, I know women get treated different than men in public - and it's pretty lame that we have that double standard - but it's there and it can't be ignored. But the whole "I feel uncomfortable with people looking at me in my skin tight catsuit"? Well, good luck with that. When you dress up in a unique way that stands you apart from everyone else: guess what? People are going to look. It's a concept as old as time. With 7 billion people on the planet, you can be sure there'll be some problem people in the mix.

 

If you dress up and go out in public, you're going to have problems. For a variety of reasons. Some people are sexist. Some people are creepy. Some people are douchrockets. That's just reality and all the signatures in the world are not going to change peoples' offensive behaviors. That's a societal issue that requires a lot more work.

[Sauce Dog]

 

No, it does not mean that, but the fact that you are either A) in a public place or B) in a place that does not have restrictions of photography - it means anyone can take your photograph whether you like it or not. It's just one of the costs of living in our society.

 

Exactly, legally it is fine to take the photographs in such a public place and everyone is well aware of that when going to a con, but it is the manner in which the photographer goes about it that might make someone uncomfortable or become harassment which I think is the real issue.

 

"I feel uncomfortable with people looking at me in my skin tight catsuit"? Well, good luck with that.

 

 

Once again, this all comes down to HOW the people around her are acting - not the actual action of being looked at, which pretty much everyone at con accepts is going to happen (hence dressing up). This isn't about the women feeling uncomfortable when being looked at (unless those people are making rude faces/gestures of course), but rather either comments people are making, inappropriate touching / personal space etc.. and when people say that 'oh she was just uncomfortable when people looked at her, she shouldn't have dressed that way then' it dismisses what might be the real issue and once again puts blame on the victim.

 

Discussions like this seem to muddle lots of issues with others, and I know no one is condoning such actions, but it often ends up sounding dismissive and going back to blaming the wrong people/actions.

[Davenport]

This thread is maddening. Why doesn't anyone notice the SCAM aspect of the article?

 

Pulled from the article to break it down:

 

"Geeks for CONsent, founded by three women from Philadelphia..."

 

Ok, three, that's 3, women from Philly. And how many attendees at SDCC?

 

"gathered nearly 2,600 signatures on an online petition supporting a formal anti-harassment policy at Comic-Con."

 

Was that before or after they actually WENT to SDCC?

 

"...to help end public harassment against women and members of the LGBT community. She and her colleagues developed a comic book on the subject in hopes of engaging middle- and high-school students, which is what brought them to Comic-Con."

 

So maybe, just maybe, a teeny enterprise saw an opportunity to SCAM Comic-Con and it's 100+ thousands of attendees to gain attention for themselves? And maybe, just maybe, the Associated Press stepped right in it because, well, politically correct nonsense is a headline du jour?

 

Cool way to pimp a COMIC BOOK. Maybe at the expense of everyone else at Comic-Con, but oh well.

 

 

[Dr. Balls]

 

No, it does not mean that, but the fact that you are either A) in a public place or B) in a place that does not have restrictions of photography - it means anyone can take your photograph whether you like it or not. It's just one of the costs of living in our society.

 

Exactly, legally it is fine to take the photographs in such a public place and everyone is well aware of that when going to a con, but it is the manner in which the photographer goes about it that might make someone uncomfortable or become harassment which I think is the real issue.

 

"I feel uncomfortable with people looking at me in my skin tight catsuit"? Well, good luck with that.

 

 

Once again, this all comes down to HOW the people around her are acting - not the actual action of being looked at, which pretty much everyone at con accepts is going to happen (hence dressing up). This isn't about the women feeling uncomfortable when being looked at (unless those people are making rude faces/gestures of course), but rather either comments people are making, inappropriate touching / personal space etc.. and when people say that 'oh she was just uncomfortable when people looked at her, she shouldn't have dressed that way then' it dismisses what might be the real issue and once again puts blame on the victim.

 

Discussions like this seem to muddle lots of issues with others, and I know no one is condoning such actions, but it often ends up sounding dismissive and going back to blaming the wrong people/actions.

 

Topics like this are very divisive - it pits the "suck it up" crowd against the "help me, please" crowd, and I don't think there can ever be any resolution. I'm pretty sure we all agree on these points, but somehow it always turns into an argumentative discussion.

 

I've mentioned it before: the burden of safety should be the responsibility of the person who is putting themselves in harm's way. If cosplayers don't want to be groped, then hire security. SDCC should make them available. Years ago, Fangoria Weekend of Horrors provided security for celebs who are at the WoH VIP parties, and they keep people from approaching them too quickly or being generally weird. You want to show off your really awesome skimpy cosplay outfit that might attract skeezy guys? Hire personal security. Problem solved.

 

The whole idea of 99% of attendees bearing the social burden of the 1% whose activities cause disruption goes against what I believe in. So does the 1% thinking that they deserve special treatment at the expense of the other 99%.

 

It's a matter of personal accountability. It has nothing to do with dressing up sexy, sleazy, or whatever. It has everything to do with understanding your environment, the people around you and making adjustments to ensure that your personal rights are not infringed upon. Yes, it's truly unfortunate that girls can't wear bikinis in public because some assclown ruins it for the rest of us - but that's just the way it goes. It's humanity, and there's plenty of people out there ruining things for the majority.

 

I mean, there's 150,000 people there - expecting every one of them to behave is probably not ever going to happen.

[Gunnz]

!

"Vaguely slutty"

 

People will be douchebags regardless of what they are wearing. She could have been wearing a turtleneck and someone may still have copped a feel.

 

Kind of surprised it happened at a CON though...

 

Also, the whole using sexuality to promote a product.... ya... cuz thats never been done before... have you seen GQ? Calvin Klein? Mens Health? Comic books?

 

[dupont2005]

So what mainstream female characters would not be in the "slutty" category?

 

Having to ask that question at all kind of says a lot about the industry.

 

The new Ms Marvel.

 

Saw a few people dressing up as her. I think she's a great character just because of that. In the end, its up to the person, and most people still prefer to wear extremely revealing outfits.

 

I think the character redesign was exactly because there were no women in mainstream comics that didn't look like sex workers. Ms Marvel of just a couple months ago.

 

So your one example is a character that hasn't even been around for more than one convention. And a character whose design didn't go without complaint from the male audience, if I remember correctly.

[dupont2005]

The biggest thing I have a problem with is the "you have to ask me for a photo" Please give us all a brake, if you didn't want to be photographed you wouldn't be out in costume and want the attention. Having someone take your picture is not the same as someone groping you( which is never tolerable).

 

You are allowed to take pictures of people in public but the manner you do so in is the issue. If you are following girls (maybe even not backing off when asked) taking creepy up skirt shots or muttering sexist comments to yourself or friends while doing so then that person might start feeling uncomfortable - which is harassment.

 

Just because I like to dress nice each day does NOT mean I want my photograph taken, nor does it apply to a setting where girls are finally comfortable expressing their love of characters by dressing up. The expression of the fandom does not imply a consent to anything else you think you are entitled too.

 

Just because it isn't the same has being grouped does not make it any less an action that could constitute harassment and make a person feel uncomfortable.

 

Have some decent manners, be a decent human being, and just ask permission. It just seems lots of people lack basic people skills in these cases.

Comicon is this, times a hundred and thirty thousand

[dupont2005]

There is a line between a "sexy" character and a "slutty" character.

 

You are in no position to decide such a line, and by that impose any ideas of consent or definition of what constitutes acceptable 'harassment'. When someone feels comfortable enough to express themselves in such a way that is just it, their own expression and it does not imply any consent to harassment.

 

Sexy or slutty, it does not matter, be a decent human being and don't harass them.

 

How they dress does not excuse your actions or poor attitude.

 

 

I disagree with the first part.

I think we all have the right to decide for ourselves who is slutty, who is sexy, who is fat, ugly, etc, based on our own morals and preferences and experiences.

 

What we don't have the right to do is treat someone with disrespect because of our judgments.

 

You do have that right, and others have the right to decide who is an individual_without_enough_empathy based on who they deem slutty.

[dupont2005]

Just because I like to dress nice each day does NOT mean I want my photograph taken, nor does it apply to a setting where girls are finally comfortable expressing their love of characters by dressing up. The expression of the fandom does not imply a consent to anything else you think you are entitled too.

 

No, it does not mean that, but the fact that you are either A) in a public place or B) in a place that does not have restrictions of photography - it means anyone can take your photograph whether you like it or not. It's just one of the costs of living in our society.

 

Women get groped on the Subway in NYC. Or leered at. Or catcalled. Yeah, it sucks to be a woman in modern society. I'd rather be dead myself - but I get it and I sympathize. All joking aside, I know women get treated different than men in public - and it's pretty lame that we have that double standard - but it's there and it can't be ignored. But the whole "I feel uncomfortable with people looking at me in my skin tight catsuit"? Well, good luck with that. When you dress up in a unique way that stands you apart from everyone else: guess what? People are going to look. It's a concept as old as time. With 7 billion people on the planet, you can be sure there'll be some problem people in the mix.

 

If you dress up and go out in public, you're going to have problems. For a variety of reasons. Some people are sexist. Some people are creepy. Some people are douchrockets. That's just reality and all the signatures in the world are not going to change peoples' offensive behaviors. That's a societal issue that requires a lot more work.

If you do it in some places it's more likely to happen than others though, and comic conventions seem to be at the top of the list. If you're being groped by a pervert on the subway that pervert might get his kicked instead of a high five.