Dealer changing the price

[VintageComics]

Is this a discussion about how much profit is too much profit?

Never mind. Don't worry about it. Just having a hard time understanding dealer angst over being unable to price-bump in real time.

 

I'm not worried.

 

It's not angst about price-bumping real time (at least not from me, as I've never had that angst because my inventory is relatively small and easy to keep track of) but it is a discussion about how dealers can and do find their own mistakes on their own books while sitting behind a table at a booth.

 

So if this is how you feed your family, and if you found an old price on a book in your booth and you realized you'd under priced it by several 100% you wouldn't change the price (obviously the book is not locked in a negotiation at this point)?

 

Is that immoral or unethical?

 

Dealers who refuse to price anything until some buyer shows interest isn't playing a 'long game'. He's mainly in touch with his own greed, as opposed to his customer base, his market, and fulfilling needs other than his own. imho.

 

I agree with you completely. I don't know why you think I wouldn't.

 

[SquareChaos]

I don't see a contradiction in the two accounts. He simply added more details in the second post...details about what happened after the initial break down in negotiation.

 

The first post was in response to how/when they changed the price on the book because this was the focal point of the entire thread. That

 

The second post is more or less not germane to the point of the thread, but it did show that the OP didn't post the whole story...which is possibly why it was added later.

 

That's what I got out of it.

 

 

I agree that the stories don't contradict each other, but the fact that the complete story had to evolve later just makes me wonder what else was left out of the formerly complete story...

 

The lingering question I have is much the same as Buzzetta. What was the timing of all this? Frankly I'm of the opinion that even if Venom walked away from the table after being quoted a price that he'd have a reasonable expectation that that would still be the price when he came back 10-15 minutes later. If I were the dealer I may raise the price to everyone else, but if a buyer got quoted a price then that buyer should be able to have a reasonable expectation that that price is the price. Otherwise why would the dealer quote a price in the first place?

 

I would say that unless there is an agreement to put the book aside, as Bob said, the quoted price is valid for that customer at that time. Do you know how many people ask a quote, say 'I'll be back' and then never come back? Most if them

 

It's really a tricky scenario because some comics become so volatile in a short period of time it really is becoming impossible to stay on top of it all if you have a large inventory.

 

Carbonaro was running around SD buying up every copy of FF whatever (1st Ronan) because he had heard about the Guardians movie. He literally cleaned out the room.

 

If you were sitting on a few issues, and were a dealer, what would you do when you got wind of the news?

 

I don't disagree with anything you've said. It is a tricky situation. But this isn't a case of a tire kicker getting a price and then never coming back. I have much more limited experience selling at a show then you do, as most of us would, but I think we'd all agree that there is a difference between this scenario and a random disappearing tire kicker.

 

At our last show I had a guy put a $10 book on hold because he had to "run to an ATM and would be right back." We've all heard it. I held the book, but another guy who overheard and saw the book also expressed interest if the guy didn't come back. I told this second guy to stop back by at the end of the show, and he could have the book if ATM guy didn't come back. Three hours later there was no sign of ATM guy and the second buyer came back, so he got the book. I don't feel one bit bad about that, and if ATM guy had come back after the second buyer I would have told him that a hold for an ATM is not forever.

 

As for the Venom situation, this is not a disappearing tire kicker, and nobody expects prices to stay static indefinitely. But if I'd visited a dealer at Chicago who told me a book was $300 and we had a prolonged chat about it that included an unsuccessful negotiation, I'd certainly expect that that quoted price of $300 was still valid if I went back 10-15 minutes later. That's just good business. Like I said, raise the price for the masses who hadn't inquired about it, but don't shaft someone you've quoted the $300 price to a short time ago.

 

As for your Carbonaro example, if he hadn't gotten a price from you half an hour prior, how is that example germane to this discussion?

 

I have had numerous exchanges like the one you mentioned above. I have had buyers tell me to hold the book that never return. ( LOTS )

I have had potential buyers ask me to hold the book that then return and then have the audacity to offer me half my sticker price. At that point I will no longer sell the book on principle as if you ask me to hold the book that means you intended to purchase it at my sticker price unless we negotiated a price. The lowballer even finally said he would pay the sticker price and I told him I wouldn't sell the book to him.

 

I had Harley Yee come and pull a couple of thousand dollars of mostly very sellable key books from my stock before the first day of the show. He asked me to hold them and he would pay me later. My expectations as a fellow seller is that I would pay him as soon as I got the money. By the end of the second show day he still had not come to pick up his books and pay me nor did he come to keep me up to date as to when he would pay me. I decided on day 3 to make them available again and sold several of the books. Harley finally returned and he was not happy that I didn't keep the books aside, I simply told him that I didn't think he was coming back to which he understood, took all the books that were left and made sure that I understood he always comes back to purchase what he sets aside from fellow dealers.

 

On the reverse: I told a fellow dealer who had a Planet Comics #3 in CGC 7.5 grade that I intended to buy the book from him at the next Calgary show. My plan was to pay him from the sales dollars I generated at the show. Unfortunately for me I had a lousy day 1 and day 2 and I had Harley Yee who had not paid me. I went to the seller at the end of day 2 and told him my unfortunate situation. He had held the book for me for an entire year so I was not that happy with the situation. The seller said "well maybe you will have a great day 3." It is for this reason I put the Harley held books up for sale and as it turns out within 30 minutes of the show opening I had all the money I needed to buy the Planet #3.

 

I have almost no issues with your story. The real issue with the original story [as I tend to believe it happened based on everything I have read] is that the dealer attempted to reprice their stock mid-negotiation.

 

In every instance you mention, people told you something and then gave you reason to believe they were not willing to follow through on what they had said or implied they were going to follow through on.

 

The only part someone could question at all is the refusal to sell to someone at sticker price because you felt upset at a previous "lowball" offer - but this just goes to show how important the non-verbals are in these sorts of interactions. The lowballer may have simply felt like he was picking a place to begin his negotiations, I mean... who knows right? Some people are way better at this sort of game than others.

[Aces]

Is this a discussion about how much profit is too much profit?

If anyone has any extra profit they can send it to me.

 

[Davenport]

Is this a discussion about how much profit is too much profit?

Never mind. Don't worry about it. Just having a hard time understanding dealer angst over being unable to price-bump in real time.

 

I'm not worried.

 

It's not angst about price-bumping real time (at least not from me, as I've never had that angst because my inventory is relatively small and easy to keep track of) but it is a discussion about how dealers can and do find their own mistakes on their own books while sitting behind a table at a booth.

 

So if this is how you feed your family, and if you found an old price on a book in your booth and you realized you'd under priced it by several 100% you wouldn't change the price (obviously the book is not locked in a negotiation at this point)?

 

Is that immoral or unethical?

 

Dealers who refuse to price anything until some buyer shows interest isn't playing a 'long game'. He's mainly in touch with his own greed, as opposed to his customer base, his market, and fulfilling needs other than his own. imho.

 

I agree with you completely. I don't know why you think I wouldn't.

Who said anything about you?

 

I was just asking in general. Imagining that all the Con dealers I've seen showing up again and again for decades aren't crying over mispricing instantly or temporarily white-hot books. Imagining it's probably a way of life for them, since their main focus is meeting needs and keeping stock churning. But, again, all in my imagination and wondering.

[Artboy99]

I don't see a contradiction in the two accounts. He simply added more details in the second post...details about what happened after the initial break down in negotiation.

 

The first post was in response to how/when they changed the price on the book because this was the focal point of the entire thread. That

 

The second post is more or less not germane to the point of the thread, but it did show that the OP didn't post the whole story...which is possibly why it was added later.

 

That's what I got out of it.

 

 

I agree that the stories don't contradict each other, but the fact that the complete story had to evolve later just makes me wonder what else was left out of the formerly complete story...

 

The lingering question I have is much the same as Buzzetta. What was the timing of all this? Frankly I'm of the opinion that even if Venom walked away from the table after being quoted a price that he'd have a reasonable expectation that that would still be the price when he came back 10-15 minutes later. If I were the dealer I may raise the price to everyone else, but if a buyer got quoted a price then that buyer should be able to have a reasonable expectation that that price is the price. Otherwise why would the dealer quote a price in the first place?

 

I would say that unless there is an agreement to put the book aside, as Bob said, the quoted price is valid for that customer at that time. Do you know how many people ask a quote, say 'I'll be back' and then never come back? Most if them

 

It's really a tricky scenario because some comics become so volatile in a short period of time it really is becoming impossible to stay on top of it all if you have a large inventory.

 

Carbonaro was running around SD buying up every copy of FF whatever (1st Ronan) because he had heard about the Guardians movie. He literally cleaned out the room.

 

If you were sitting on a few issues, and were a dealer, what would you do when you got wind of the news?

 

I don't disagree with anything you've said. It is a tricky situation. But this isn't a case of a tire kicker getting a price and then never coming back. I have much more limited experience selling at a show then you do, as most of us would, but I think we'd all agree that there is a difference between this scenario and a random disappearing tire kicker.

 

At our last show I had a guy put a $10 book on hold because he had to "run to an ATM and would be right back." We've all heard it. I held the book, but another guy who overheard and saw the book also expressed interest if the guy didn't come back. I told this second guy to stop back by at the end of the show, and he could have the book if ATM guy didn't come back. Three hours later there was no sign of ATM guy and the second buyer came back, so he got the book. I don't feel one bit bad about that, and if ATM guy had come back after the second buyer I would have told him that a hold for an ATM is not forever.

 

As for the Venom situation, this is not a disappearing tire kicker, and nobody expects prices to stay static indefinitely. But if I'd visited a dealer at Chicago who told me a book was $300 and we had a prolonged chat about it that included an unsuccessful negotiation, I'd certainly expect that that quoted price of $300 was still valid if I went back 10-15 minutes later. That's just good business. Like I said, raise the price for the masses who hadn't inquired about it, but don't shaft someone you've quoted the $300 price to a short time ago.

 

As for your Carbonaro example, if he hadn't gotten a price from you half an hour prior, how is that example germane to this discussion?

 

I have had numerous exchanges like the one you mentioned above. I have had buyers tell me to hold the book that never return. ( LOTS )

I have had potential buyers ask me to hold the book that then return and then have the audacity to offer me half my sticker price. At that point I will no longer sell the book on principle as if you ask me to hold the book that means you intended to purchase it at my sticker price unless we negotiated a price. The lowballer even finally said he would pay the sticker price and I told him I wouldn't sell the book to him.

 

I had Harley Yee come and pull a couple of thousand dollars of mostly very sellable key books from my stock before the first day of the show. He asked me to hold them and he would pay me later. My expectations as a fellow seller is that I would pay him as soon as I got the money. By the end of the second show day he still had not come to pick up his books and pay me nor did he come to keep me up to date as to when he would pay me. I decided on day 3 to make them available again and sold several of the books. Harley finally returned and he was not happy that I didn't keep the books aside, I simply told him that I didn't think he was coming back to which he understood, took all the books that were left and made sure that I understood he always comes back to purchase what he sets aside from fellow dealers.

 

On the reverse: I told a fellow dealer who had a Planet Comics #3 in CGC 7.5 grade that I intended to buy the book from him at the next Calgary show. My plan was to pay him from the sales dollars I generated at the show. Unfortunately for me I had a lousy day 1 and day 2 and I had Harley Yee who had not paid me. I went to the seller at the end of day 2 and told him my unfortunate situation. He had held the book for me for an entire year so I was not that happy with the situation. The seller said "well maybe you will have a great day 3." It is for this reason I put the Harley held books up for sale and as it turns out within 30 minutes of the show opening I had all the money I needed to buy the Planet #3.

 

I have almost no issues with your story. The real issue with the original story [as I tend to believe it happened based on everything I have read] is that the dealer attempted to reprice their stock mid-negotiation.

 

In every instance you mention, people told you something and then gave you reason to believe they were not willing to follow through on what they had said or implied they were going to follow through on.

 

The only part someone could question at all is the refusal to sell to someone at sticker price because you felt upset at a previous "lowball" offer - but this just goes to show how important the non-verbals are in these sorts of interactions. The lowballer may have simply felt like he was picking a place to begin his negotiations, I mean... who knows right? Some people are way better at this sort of game than others.

 

I agree with you. That said it is my opinion if you ask me to hold the book you are agreeing to purchase it at my sticker price as we did not discuss price at all. That said, what I learned is I need to be very clear with my customers and make sure the price is negotiated before I hold the book. In the circumstance I mentioned the potential buyer told me when he returned and made his lowball offer that he doesn't pay full price for anything he buys. The book in question was an Amazing Spiderman 129 in fine. I had $250 sticker on it, which in my opinion was a pretty decent deal to begin with. He offered me $100.00. Had he offered me 200 he may have received a different response.

[VintageComics]

I was just asking in general. Imagining that all the Con dealers I've seen showing up again and again for decades aren't crying over mispricing instantly or temporarily white-hot books. Imagining it's probably a way of life for them, since their main focus is meeting needs and keeping stock churning. But, again, all in my imagination and wondering.

 

As far as I can tell, a dealer's job is to earn a living selling comics in an ethical manner.

 

There is usually a balance needed between 'churning inventory' and making a profit.

 

Sure, you can churn inventory at an incredible rate but if your margins are too thin and can't support yourself, how useful is that?

 

Most dealers try to find a balance between selling too fast (inventory is hard to find) and selling too slow (they need to support themselves by their sales) and price is the mitigating factor, especially for popular books.

 

It's why hot books go up in price. Harder to replace so prices rise.

[PsylockeSmythe]

I have had numerous exchanges like the one you mentioned above. I have had buyers tell me to hold the book that never return. ( LOTS )

 

I might be in the minority here; but anytime I'm interested in a book at a show and I'm having a hard time deciding if I want to purchase the book or not; I make sure the dealer knows not to hold it for me until I make a decision. Even when they offer to hold it; I turn them down.

 

I do this because I would rather see the dealer sell the book to someone else; then hold it for me; and have me come back later and say I'm going to pass (for whatever reason); and ending up not selling it to another customer because they were holding it for me.

 

If I miss out on the book; because he ended up selling it to someone; then I miss out on the book. I can always find another; which is half the fun.

 

Psy

 

 

 

 

[Sqeggs]

Is this a discussion about how much profit is too much profit?

Never mind. Don't worry about it. Just having a hard time understanding dealer angst over being unable to price-bump in real time.

 

I'm not worried.

 

It's not angst about price-bumping real time (at least not from me, as I've never had that angst because my inventory is relatively small and easy to keep track of) but it is a discussion about how dealers can and do find their own mistakes on their own books while sitting behind a table at a booth.

 

So if this is how you feed your family, and if you found an old price on a book in your booth and you realized you'd under priced it by several 100% you wouldn't change the price (obviously the book is not locked in a negotiation at this point)?

 

Is that immoral or unethical?

 

Dealers who refuse to price anything until some buyer shows interest isn't playing a 'long game'. He's mainly in touch with his own greed, as opposed to his customer base, his market, and fulfilling needs other than his own. imho.

 

I agree with you completely. I don't know why you think I wouldn't.

 

I don't think anyone would quarrel with a dealer repricing books during a show. The key to this dispute is repricing during a negotiation. Even though there is some discrepancy concerning whether the buyer left the booth for a while during the negotiation, I'm not sure that matters.

 

In the end, the dealer got more for the comic but he sure seems to have generated a lot of bad pr over a small amount of money.

 

What's Warren Buffett's line? "Don't do anything you wouldn't want printed on the front page of your home town newspaper." Similar advice to dealers: "Don't do anything you wouldn't want discussed at length on the CGC boards."

[Artboy99]

I was just asking in general. Imagining that all the Con dealers I've seen showing up again and again for decades aren't crying over mispricing instantly or temporarily white-hot books. Imagining it's probably a way of life for them, since their main focus is meeting needs and keeping stock churning. But, again, all in my imagination and wondering.

 

As far as I can tell, a dealer's job is to earn a living selling comics in an ethical manner.

 

There is usually a balance needed between 'churning inventory' and making a profit.

 

Sure, you can churn inventory at an incredible rate but if your margins are too thin and can't support yourself, how useful is that?

 

Most dealers try to find a balance between selling too fast (inventory is hard to find) and selling too slow (they need to support themselves by their sales) and price is the mitigating factor, especially for popular books.

 

It's why hot books go up in price. Harder to replace so prices rise.

 

well said, I agree.

 

To the original issue: I had a Hulk 271 in my dollar box for several years that did not sell. Before the Guardians of the Galaxy movie news it wasn't an easy book to sell. I had a buyer pick it out of my dollar box along with some other books at a show 2 years ago. I noticed it was in his pile, I sold it at a dollar and said "getting a good deal on that one".

I have noticed the buyer comes back to my table every year and browses my bargain boxes. He also bought a key book off of me 2 years later: a Marvel Preview 7 at my full asking. Sometimes it is wiser to sell a book for less.

[The Less Blob]

i know, i know, nobody has a gun to my head forcing me to read this, but after 57 pages, please Lord, let this thread end....

[Artboy99]

I have had numerous exchanges like the one you mentioned above. I have had buyers tell me to hold the book that never return. ( LOTS )

 

I might be in the minority here; but anytime I'm interested in a book at a show and I'm having a hard time deciding if I want to purchase the book or not; I make sure the dealer knows not to hold it for me until I make a decision. Even when they offer to hold it; I turn them down.

 

I do this because I would rather see the dealer sell the book to someone else; then hold it for me; and have me come back later and say I'm going to pass (for whatever reason); and ending up not selling it to another customer because they were holding it for me.

 

If I miss out on the book; because he ended up selling it to someone; then I miss out on the book. I can always find another; which is half the fun.

 

Psy

 

 

 

(thumbs u

[SquareChaos]

I agree with you. That said it is my opinion if you ask me to hold the book you are agreeing to purchase it at my sticker price as we did not discuss price at all. That said, what I learned is I need to be very clear with my customers and make sure the price is negotiated before I hold the book. In the circumstance I mentioned the potential buyer told me when he returned and made his lowball offer that he doesn't pay full price for anything he buys. The book in question was an Amazing Spiderman 129 in fine. I had $250 sticker on it, which in my opinion was a pretty decent deal to begin with. He offered me $100.00. Had he offered me 200 he may have received a different response.

 

:thumbsup:

 

It is reasonable - as a buyer [mostly what I am, rarely a seller at all] I know that I can insult people if I'm not careful with my offers or how I present them. That guy's tactics sound very abrasive so I don't really blame you for being offended. As a buyer... he knows he can't just barge in and be a total , otherwise he risks offending the seller. The buyer needs to be likable if he wants a good deal.

[SquareChaos]

I have had numerous exchanges like the one you mentioned above. I have had buyers tell me to hold the book that never return. ( LOTS )

 

I might be in the minority here; but anytime I'm interested in a book at a show and I'm having a hard time deciding if I want to purchase the book or not; I make sure the dealer knows not to hold it for me until I make a decision. Even when they offer to hold it; I turn them down.

 

I do this because I would rather see the dealer sell the book to someone else; then hold it for me; and have me come back later and say I'm going to pass (for whatever reason); and ending up not selling it to another customer because they were holding it for me.

 

If I miss out on the book; because he ended up selling it to someone; then I miss out on the book. I can always find another; which is half the fun.

 

Psy

 

 

 

 

I have done this too - I do not ask anyone to hold a book for me, and certainly not without putting some money down.

 

One thing this thread has made me aware of though... I should probably be very specific when I say "I'll be back" after showing interest in an item. There is a fine line between a polite "That is interesting, I may look at it again" and "I'll be back to buy this." The dealer deserves to know the difference.

[CBT]

So if this is how you feed your family, and if you found an old price on a book in your booth and you realized you'd under priced it by several 100% you wouldn't change the price (obviously the book is not locked in a negotiation at this point)?

 

Is that immoral or unethical?

 

If Venom left and came back, its not unethical to have changed the price. It's still sleazy/lazy to use your customers to do your job for you. This was a wall book, not something stuck in a bin somewhere. If he is feeding his family from selling at the con, he should take the time to research his books and mark them correctly.

 

I'm still skeptical though, I want to hear venom same that he actually walked away. I still think its a case of someone trying to buy something and having it tripled at the register (which is pseudo illegal and certainly unethical)

[Artboy99]

I agree with you. That said it is my opinion if you ask me to hold the book you are agreeing to purchase it at my sticker price as we did not discuss price at all. That said, what I learned is I need to be very clear with my customers and make sure the price is negotiated before I hold the book. In the circumstance I mentioned the potential buyer told me when he returned and made his lowball offer that he doesn't pay full price for anything he buys. The book in question was an Amazing Spiderman 129 in fine. I had $250 sticker on it, which in my opinion was a pretty decent deal to begin with. He offered me $100.00. Had he offered me 200 he may have received a different response.

 

:thumbsup:

 

It is reasonable - as a buyer [mostly what I am, rarely a seller at all] I know that I can insult people if I'm not careful with my offers or how I present them. That guy's tactics sound very abrasive so I don't really blame you for being offended. As a buyer... he knows he can't just barge in and be a total , otherwise he risks offending the seller. The buyer needs to be likable if he wants a good deal.

 

Hopefully he learned to adjust his negotiation tactics.

 

I had another guy come to my booth and he was pulling books up from in the box to look then was putting them back in. His method of putting the books back was what bothered me; he was very forcefully jamming the books back. His force was very hard, and the books were bending and such.

 

I calmly walked out from behind my table of my booth, took the comic he was holding in his hand out of his hand, placed it back in my box and told him "you are done here." The look on his face was priceless.

I don't have to deal with everyone that comes to my booth. Treat me with respect I will do the same, you also need to treat my books the same. I have had to many cases of books damaged by uncaring people. A wonderful mint copy of Conan 16 "the Frost Giants Daughter" had a staple get popped because some kid leaned on the book which I had laying flat on the table. That event made me buy toploaders and ensure each and every book I place on display is in one.

[thunsicker]

I wasn't there and can't speak to how the deal actually went down, but...

 

 

Wait! I wasn't there and can't speak to how the deal went down.

[wombat]

 

I don't think anyone would quarrel with a dealer repricing books during a show.

 

Sounds like a few people would.

[Point Five]

I wasn't there and can't speak to how the deal actually went down, but...

 

 

Wait! I wasn't there and can't speak to how the deal went down.

 

 

[BlowUpTheMoon]

i know, i know, nobody has a gun to my head forcing me to read this, but after 57 pages, please Lord, let this thread end....

 

Why does this thread bother you so much?

[VintageComics]

 

I don't think anyone would quarrel with a dealer repricing books during a show.

 

Sounds like a few people would.

 

Some people did have a problem with it in the thread and that's why it was being discussed.