Crimebuster Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) Excellent movie, and deserving of the nomination. I don't believe it will win, but I wouldn't completely count it out. There have been many, many years in Oscar history when the Best Picture award didn't go to the objectively "best" movie, but rather to a good movie that was very popular, or a decent movie that had a great Oscar campaign generating buzz for it, or for all sorts of reasons beyond critical opinion. The people who votes for these things by and large aren't critics or film scholars, they are actors and directors and writers who often judge things through their own specific lenses. The fact that it was as popular as it was is a major benefit. Oscar voters get free screener copies, but a lot of voters don't have time or inclination to sit and watch dozens of films. I'd bet money there will be people voting for Best Picture who have not seen all the nominees — but they may have seen Black Panther because it was such a phenomenon. That gives it a leg up out of the gate. What it does with that advantage we'll see — Marvel has never run an Oscar campaign like this before, so it will be interesting to see what they and Disney do in this situation. Edited January 23, 2019 by Crimebuster Chaos_in_Canada 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larryw7 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 13 hours ago, Oddball said: Honestly, I don't think there has ever been a comic book movie that deserves an Oscar win for Best Picture. Not even Dark Knight but it did deserve a nomination at least in that category. I'm just being real, I love comic book movies but they do not stack up against films of consequence that evoke thought and emotion. I don't agree with the Best Picture choice every year but even my last choice is usually better than my favorite comic book movies. Of course the Best Pictures may not be as re-watchable or loved but there is no denying that comic movies don't hold a candle to films that deserve the distinction and honor of being considered the best the year has to offer. Are we really going to put Black Panther in the same league as Platoon, Unforgiven, Shindler's List, Million Dollar Baby or The Departed? (And I only listed modern Best Pictures for my comparison). I loved Black Panther but it was not gut wrenching or emotional or thought provoking at all. I think I felt hollow for days after seeing Million Dollar Baby. After Black Panther, my kids looked at me and said, "That was pretty cool." And it was. Just like most of them are. I disagree about The Dark Knight. The movie was very thought provoking, and showcased an incredible cast and an electrifying story. What films from 2008 had more cultural significance or lasting impact? Certainly not the films nominated for best picture, most of which are already forgotten. 1950's war comics 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
▫️ Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Larryw7 said: I disagree about The Dark Knight. The movie was very thought provoking, and showcased an incredible cast and an electrifying story. What films from 2008 had more cultural significance or lasting impact? Certainly not the films nominated for best picture, most of which are already forgotten. I did say it deserved a nomination for best picture. And in my own view, there has never been a better comic book film. Ever. I did incorrectly think The Dark Knight went up against No Country for Old Men and There Will be Blood. Wrong year. It looks like Slumdog Millionaire won best picture the year Dark Knight was snubbed. So I retract my statement as I believe DK was a better film. It deserved the best picture award for that year. Larryw7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatsby77 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Larryw7 said: I disagree about The Dark Knight. The movie was very thought provoking, and showcased an incredible cast and an electrifying story. What films from 2008 had more cultural significance or lasting impact? Certainly not the films nominated for best picture, most of which are already forgotten. I was about to fight you on this because I think The Dark Knight was a phenomenal film, and the apex of superhero movies so far. If any comic book movie was deserving of Best Picture, this was it. The problem is, it needs to be considered in context, vs. the other films of that particular year. Here's the thing -- It deserved to be nominated for Best Picture. And, sadly, it probably *should have* won. Here was the competition: Frost/Nixon -- Good, but not really re-watchable. More notable today as George Clooney's directorial debut. The Reader -- Ditto. Good, but not great. And too self-consciously Oscar bait. Milk -- Close, but not really Best Picture-worthy. Equivalent to this year's BlacKKKlansman. And better known today for the strong ensemble acting than anything else. The Curious Case of Benjamin Button -- Weak sauce. This is the film The Dark Knight should have displaced for a nomination. Slumdog Millionaire -- Won Best Picture. Totally original (as a movie - it was adapted from a novel), refreshing, and ground-breaking at the time. Especially notable for the story structure and editing. But...hasn't aged well. It belongs in that category of "loved at the time but not really great" -- see also "Shakespeare In Love" but it's certainly above the travesty that was "Crash"'s win in 2005 or "The Artist"'s win in 2011. As I said, I started to respond to disagree with you, but -- having examined the other films -- I agree. The Dark Knight should not only have been nominated for Best Picture, it should have won. Larryw7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkman Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Very deserving. Black Panther was an emotional roller coaster with a great story and one of the best villains, and especially should win Costume Design. Chaos_in_Canada 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos_in_Canada Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Crimebuster said: Excellent movie, and deserving of the nomination. I don't believe it will win, but I wouldn't completely count it out. There have been many, many years in Oscar history when the Best Picture award didn't go to the objectively "best" movie, but rather to a good movie that was very popular, or a decent movie that had a great Oscar campaign generating buzz for it, or for all sorts of reasons beyond critical opinion. The people who votes for these things by and large aren't critics or film scholars, they are actors and directors and writers who often judge things through their own specific lenses. The fact that it was as popular as it was is a major benefit. Oscar voters get free screener copies, but a lot of voters don't have time or inclination to sit and watch dozens of films. I'd bet money there will be people voting for Best Picture who have not seen all the nominees — but they may have seen Black Panther because it was such a phenomenon. That gives it a leg up out of the gate. What it does with that advantage we'll see — Marvel has never run an Oscar campaign like this before, so it will be interesting to see what they and Disney do in this situation. That's why Marvel Studios is the only studio that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos_in_Canada Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, Hawkman said: Very deserving. Black Panther was an emotional roller coaster with a great story and one of the best villains, and especially should win Costume Design. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artboy99 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 51 minutes ago, Hawkman said: Very deserving. Black Panther was an emotional roller coaster with a great story and one of the best villains, and especially should win Costume Design. it is so interesting to me the differing opinions on films. For me Black Panther was very average. Perhaps it was the hype of how great the film was before I saw it. Once I saw it I was underwhelmed. I was never emotionally invested. Decent film, but only a 6 out of 10 for me. ▫️, 1950's war comics and Mystafo 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marwai Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 6 hours ago, AnthonyTheAbyss said: ...because it was a predominately black (African American) cast and "social" media wasn't going to let it fail. I was getting tired of that headline after a few weeks. But it is Black Panther after all...and a dang good movie. Being nominated is great but I'm on the side of "why this movie"? Why not any other super hero movie prior?. I honestly believe the topic mentioned above has a lot to do with it. But that's just my opinion. We might be looking at it too close as comic book fans and forget that Hollywood loves the "social" aspects more than the comic genre. Most of the stuff that gets nominated for best picture has something social to say or is some period piece drama. Black Panther is one of the few superhero movies to dare tread in that direction. It won't win best picture without getting nominations for Coogler or the actors, but it will be the only one to get a sequel and have a lasting influence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimebuster Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gatsby77 said: The Dark Knight should not only have been nominated for Best Picture, it should have won. I have not seen all the nominees from 2008, but besides Milk, he most serious competition for me would be another film that should have been nominated for Best Picture but wasn't because of genre bias - Wall-E. The silent movie first act elevated Wall-E in a way that even the other great Pixar movies haven't achieved (and may not again, since as much as I love Pixar, they have felt safer and more formulaic since their merger with Disney). The snubs of both Dark Knight and Wall-E are what led to the Academy opening the Best Picture field to more nominees, which overall, I think is a good thing. One other thing working in Black Panther's favor - and again, I don't think it will win - is that unless something has changed this year, Best Picture voting works on a preferential ranked voting system, with the winner needing to get at least half the total votes. So the way it works is, each voter ranks all the Best Picture nominees. If no film gets half the total votes on the first ballot, the movie with the fewest votes is tossed out. Any ballots that were cast for that film are then recast using that voter's 2nd place choice. If no fiilm has yet to reach 50%, they do this again - the lowest film is tossed, any votes for that film go to the next choice on te ballots (2nd, or now in some cases, 3rd choices). This means it's entirely possible for a film to win Best Picture because it has the most 2nd place votes even if it has a smaller number of 1st place votes. In a field like this, with no clear frontrunner, if Black Panther is everyone's 2nd choice, it could well win. Edited January 23, 2019 by Crimebuster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artboy99 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 31 minutes ago, Marwai said: We might be looking at it too close as comic book fans and forget that Hollywood loves the "social" aspects more than the comic genre.� Most of the stuff that gets nominated for best picture has something social to say or is some period piece drama.��Black Panther is one of�the few superhero movies to dare tread in that direction.� It won't win best picture without getting nominations for Coogler�or the actors, but it will be the only one to get a sequel and have a lasting influence.� what "social" aspects did it contain? Perhaps I missed the subtleties but I didn't really see any. Extremely wealthy culture of people with fantastic technology venture out into the world making use of their gadgets, vehicles and special suits. 1950's war comics 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marwai Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Artboy99 said: what "social" aspects did it contain? Perhaps I missed the subtleties but I didn't really see any. Extremely wealthy culture of people with fantastic technology venture out into the world making use of their gadgets, vehicles and special suits. Well if you have not looked at all the "social" media articles that wasn't going to let it fail: 1) It was a black movie that wasn't about race relations, slavery, stereotypes, and had a positive outlook. 2) It was about the country that was going away from isolationism to joining the rest of the world. T'Challa has to answer: Should his wealthy country hide or share resources with the rest of the world? Should they be a leader on the world stage or stay on the sidelines? Once revealed to the rest of the world, should they let in refugees from other countries and turn Wakanda into something just like any other poor country? Will they bring their ways and ruin the Wakandan culture? Do they have a responsibility to the rest of the world or not? 3) Do they share this technology and weapons,etc. responsibly or use it to escalate war across the globe? America sells arms to many nations across the globe. Do we do this responsibly? 4) How do we as a society weaponize Rhinos? This always brings the attention of the Academy. Edited January 23, 2019 by Marwai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatsby77 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 59 minutes ago, Crimebuster said: One other thing working in Black Panther's favor - and again, I don't think it will win - is that unless something has changed this year, Best Picture voting works on a preferential ranked voting system, with the winner needing to get at least half the total votes. So the way it works is, each voter ranks all the Best Picture nominees. If no film gets half the total votes on the first ballot, the movie with the fewest votes is tossed out. Any ballots that were cast for that film are then recast using that voter's 2nd place choice. If no fiilm has yet to reach 50%, they do this again - the lowest film is tossed, any votes for that film go to the next choice on te ballots (2nd, or now in some cases, 3rd choices). This means it's entirely possible for a film to win Best Picture because it has the most 2nd place votes even if it has a smaller number of 1st place votes. In a field like this, with no clear frontrunner, if Black Panther is everyone's 2nd choice, it could well win. Yeah - but it's exactly that Ranked Choice scenario that has benefited Green Book and Roma in the run-up award shows, whereas the prior presumed favorite -- A Star Is Born -- has come up empty nearly across the board. At this point, I think actual Best Picture will go to either Green Book or Roma -- with A Star Is Born being a distant (yet possible) third. I think Bohemian Rhapsody will fall after the post-Golden Globes backlash (and its far different voting pool then the Academy) and The Favorite will act as the primary spoiler / dark horse -- a distant fourth choice that won't ultimately win Best Picture. Honestly, I'd love to see either Roma or A Star Is Born win -- but Green Book may sneak in there. TLDR: Zero chance Black Panther wins, and deservedly so. It's easily among the top 10 most important films of the year, but not in the top 5 for "Best." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianh Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Hollywood just loves to try and show the rest of us how they are morally superior (which is a joke) so I wouldn't count BP out. That being said it's an absolute joke that this movie of all the Marvel Cinematic Movies so far is rated #1 for example on RT. It's not in my top 10 and the only marvel movie I never bought on Blu-Ray because I thought it was so average. Same story but place it in Asia or Europe and any race other than black and it goes from fresh to rotten I'd bet. Just Hollywood virtue signalling the rest of us as always when they are the scum. Dark Knight is the bar imo and BP doesn't even come close. theCapraAegagrus and kimik 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimebuster Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 1 hour ago, ianh said: Same story but place it in Asia or Europe and any race other than black and it goes from fresh to rotten I'd bet. Black Panther is about the black experience. There's no possible way to tell this "same story" in Asia or Europe, or have it focus on another race, because it is about black people, and about Africa. Considering how obvious this simple fact is, I'm puzzled how you could have missed it. paperheart and ComicConnoisseur 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 14 minutes ago, Crimebuster said: Black Panther is about the black experience. There's no possible way to tell this "same story" in Asia or Europe, or have it focus on another race, because it is about black people, and about Africa. Considering how obvious this simple fact is, I'm puzzled how you could have missed it. The point is, that a story of heritage shouldn't be celebrated just because of the clan's skin color(s). This is Hollywood trying to be "PC". Black Panther is a good movie because it tells a good story about a fictional culture while drawing inspiration from real-life culture. Black Panther is not a good or excessively-great movie just because the cast is mostly comprised of people with black skin color. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianh Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Crimebuster said: Black Panther is about the black experience. There's no possible way to tell this "same story" in Asia or Europe, or have it focus on another race, because it is about black people, and about Africa. Considering how obvious this simple fact is, I'm puzzled how you could have missed it. LOL sure there is and I'm puzzled how you completely missed my point. If it was a movie about an Asian super hero called the Yellow Tiger that was from a fictional country that was technologically advanced and one cousin had it far worse than another and came back for revenge Hollywood wouldn't care. It's Hollywood being PC and it's so painfully obvious. It shouldn't matter what race a super hero is but it certainly does to Hollywood. Edited January 24, 2019 by ianh kimik, Artboy99 and theCapraAegagrus 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marwai Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 20 minutes ago, ianh said: It shouldn't matter what race a super hero is but it certainly does to Hollywood. It doesn't matter now after Black Panther made 1 Bill. It mattered before and for about 20 years since Blade when Hollywood thought only white superheroes can make money. ComicConnoisseur 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimebuster Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 1 hour ago, ianh said: LOL sure there is and I'm puzzled how you completely missed my point. I feel pretty sure we all understand the point of your posts. zuckuss2003 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paperheart Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 SAG Awards: ‘Black Panther’ Wins Best Ensemble; w/ no Oscar acting nominations and zero chance of winning best picture, this is a nice consolation prize ComicConnoisseur 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
