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Top 40 Copper in Overstreet

Started by Brock,

125 posts in this topic

B-Smooth

B-Smooth

Posted
Posted
Thanks to everyone for the ideas and contributions. I know we will never get 100% agreement on this, but I appreciate all the ideas and suggestions. I'm a big believer in crowdsourcing, and I think your input will make my efforts much stronger.

 

To accommodate all the great suggestions, I'm going to change my "Top 40" list to a "Top 50" list for this year's guide. I'll try to acknowledge everyone who took part in the Guide as well, though the final edits aren't mine to decide... I will use Board names, but PM me if you'd like me to use your real name (or if you'd rather not be mentioned as part of this discussion)...

 

So here's the list I'll likely run with this year:

 

Albedo #2

Amazing Spider-Man #238, #252, #298, #300, #361

Archie's Girls Betty and Veronica #320

Batman #357, #386, #404, #428

Batman: The Dark Knight Returns #1

Batman: The Killing Joke

Bone #1

Caliber Presents #1

Comico Primer #2

Crisis on Infinite Earths #1

The Crow #1

DC Comics Presents #47

Evil Ernie #1

G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero #1

Harbinger #1

Incredible Hulk #271, #340

Iron Man #282

Marvel Graphic Novel #4

Marvel Super Heroes Secret Wars #8

Miracleman #15

New Mutants #87, #98, Annual #2

Sandman #1, #8

Spectacular Spider-Man #64

Swamp Thing #21, #37

Starslayer #2

Tales of the New Teen Titans #44

Thor #337

Transformers #1

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles #1

Uncanny X-men #221, #248, #266

Vampirella #113

Warrior #1

Watchmen #1

Wolverine (limited series) #1

X-Factor #6, #24

 

I have to submit my report to Overstreet by December 8, so I guess this is a "speak now or forever hold your peace" moment... But we can always do this again next year!

X-men 248 over Joe 21? Nay. Big Nay

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Topnotchman

Topnotchman

Posted
Posted
Granted I'm not the biggest Batman fan or anything but #386? First Black Mask. Is that really a top 40 Copper book? Is he really that substantial of a Batman villain?

 

List looks great by the way.

 

That Villain book should not be top 40. There should be some Star Wars representation. 42 or 68, the 42 has really gotten popular this year.

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Number 6

Number 6

Posted
Posted

Did DC Comics Presents #26 get bumped of the list because it's cover date was determined to be outside the date range for the Copper Age?

 

I love Master of the Universe and have a copy of #47. I'll probably never own a copy of #26 and not terrible interested in it. But I have to be honest: I think #26 has much more merit to be on this list than #47.

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oakman29

oakman29

Posted
Posted
Thanks to everyone for the ideas and contributions. I know we will never get 100% agreement on this, but I appreciate all the ideas and suggestions. I'm a big believer in crowdsourcing, and I think your input will make my efforts much stronger.

 

To accommodate all the great suggestions, I'm going to change my "Top 40" list to a "Top 50" list for this year's guide. I'll try to acknowledge everyone who took part in the Guide as well, though the final edits aren't mine to decide... I will use Board names, but PM me if you'd like me to use your real name (or if you'd rather not be mentioned as part of this discussion)...

 

So here's the list I'll likely run with this year:

 

Albedo #2

Amazing Spider-Man #238, #252, #298, #300, #361

Archie's Girls Betty and Veronica #320

Batman #357, #386, #404, #428

Batman: The Dark Knight Returns #1

Batman: The Killing Joke

Bone #1

Caliber Presents #1

Comico Primer #2

Crisis on Infinite Earths #1

The Crow #1

DC Comics Presents #47

Evil Ernie #1

G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero #1

Harbinger #1

Incredible Hulk #271, #340

Iron Man #282

Marvel Graphic Novel #4

Marvel Super Heroes Secret Wars #8

Miracleman #15

New Mutants #87, #98, Annual #2

Sandman #1, #8

Spectacular Spider-Man #64

Swamp Thing #21, #37

Starslayer #2

Tales of the New Teen Titans #44

Thor #337

Transformers #1

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles #1

Uncanny X-men #221, #248, #266

Vampirella #113

Warrior #1

Watchmen #1

Wolverine (limited series) #1

X-Factor #6, #24

 

I have to submit my report to Overstreet by December 8, so I guess this is a "speak now or forever hold your peace" moment... But we can always do this again next year!

 

 

Great list Brock. :applause:

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted

I've said it before, and I'm going to say it again (in just a few seconds, too)...

 

1993 is not the "start" of the Modern age. Neither is 1992 with Image, nor 1991 with Valiant. There was nothing particularly new or innovative about any of these years, and certainly nothing that changed the direction of the entire market (unlike what happened in 1938, 1956/61, 1969/70 and 1979/81.)

 

1991-1993 represent the apex of what had been building for years: the establishment of the "hot artist", the forming of new companies, the introduction of swaths of new characters.

 

To arbitrarily decide that "1992 is Copper, and 1993 is Modern", without any significant, fundamental change to the industry, simply doesn't make sense.

 

If anything...the distribution wars of 1994-1996, with Diamond emerging as the sole winner, had much, much more impact than any single event, or even cluster of events, of 1992-1993.

 

Anyhoo...back to our regularly scheduled thread...

 

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted

Here's my list:

 

Albedo #2

Amazing Spider-Man #238, #252, #298, #300, #361

Archie's Girls Betty and Veronica #320 (while, yes, this is a valuable book, it is a very, very niche book, and very rarely asked for.)

Batman #357, #366 (Joker, Jason Todd in costume, SImonson cover, always been an important, desired book), #386, #404, #428

Batman: The Dark Knight Returns #1-#4 (this set should be seen as one unit.)

Batman: The Killing Joke

Batman: Vengeance of Bane #1 (since 2010 or so, the most important Bat book of the 90's.)

Bone #1

Caliber Presents #1

Comico Primer #2

Crisis on Infinite Earths #1, #8

The Crow #1 (Represented by Caliber Presents #1, not as significant to the general collecting public, outside of "movie hype.")

Daredevil #181 (what sort of top Copper list entirely omits Miller DD?)

Daredevil #227-#233 (consistently ranked as the finest Daredevil story ever written)

DC Comics Presents #47 (this book is currently "hot", but He-Man isn't all that relevant.)

Evil Ernie #1

G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero #1, #21 (#21 has become a standard book of the era, and is easily the most sought after of the early books.)

Harbinger #1

Incredible Hulk #271, #340, #377 (this saw the culmination of several years worth of Peter David stories, and was the apex of the transition of the Hulk from a Marvel Also-Ran into a major starring character. If not for the fact that they printed a bazillion of them, this would be a relatively decent value book.)

Iron Man #282 (War Machine may have been important in the films, but it's been a while, and people forget.)

Marvel Graphic Novel #1 (the first MGN, one of the most important, and the culmination of Starlin's first Marvel Epoch.)

Marvel Graphic Novel #4 (New Mutants may be gaining popularity, but this book hasn't ever really set imaginations on fire.)

Marvel Super Heroes Secret Wars #8

Miracleman #15

New Mutants #87, #98, Annual #2

Punisher Limited Series #1-5 (the series that made a star out of the Punisher belongs on ANY Top Copper list, above many, many of the others.)

Sandman #1, #8

Spawn #1 (the most important, by far, of the original Image books.)

Spectacular Spider-Man #64 (Cloak and Dagger just don't capture the public)

Spiderman #1 (Yes, probably the single most sought after Spiderman book of the 90's, it is ALWAYS asked for.)

Superman #75 (you really can't leave this off any of these lists. It is the most important Superman book of the entire 90's, even if the outcome was undone.)

Superman: The Man of Steel #18 (1st Doomsday. Ignored for years, but it has finally come into its own. It is quickly coming to be *the* Superman book of the Copper Age to own.)

Swamp Thing #21, #37

Starslayer #2 (as much as I love the Rocketeer, and Stevens, the character hasn't made much impact for a long time.)

Tales of the Teen Titans #44

Thor #337

Transformers #1

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles #1

Uncanny X-men #221, #248, #266

Vampirella #113 (sadly, the only reason this has a place is because of its print run.)

Warrior #1 (No. It's a UK published book, and while very important to MM, and a much beloved personal favorite, it doesn't have a spot here.)

Watchmen #1-12 (again, should be considered as a unit.)

Wolverine (limited series) #1

X-Factor #6, #24

 

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
I know X-men 282 is common, but it should be on the list too.

 

Why?

 

1st Appearance of Bishop. ;) I love Whilce Portacio 1990's work.

 

As do I...but Bishop isn't a fan fav, currently.

 

I see *dealers* buying it...but not collectors.

 

So....why?

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showcase22gr1959

showcase22gr1959

Posted
Posted
I know X-men 282 is common, but it should be on the list too.

 

Why?

 

1st Appearance of Bishop. ;) I love Whilce Portacio 1990's work.

 

As do I...but Bishop isn't a fan fav, currently.

 

I see *dealers* buying it...but not collectors.

 

So....why?

 

Before Bishop had an appearance in the recent X-men Movie "Days Future Past", he was under appreciated. X-men 282 in 9.8's have been selling between $40-60 for the longest time. Once Bishop was announced to be in the recent X-men Movie, raw copies which were selling for $1-2 jumped to $5-10. The 9.8 copies suddenly became $110 to as high as $200. Since supplies has increased tremendously in 9.8's price were kept in check and prices decline. I see the book holding strong between $80-100. If you check GPA since the beginning, many copies were sold and suspect to many collectors. No doubt this is a heavy speculated book in the 1990's. X-men 282 is hard to locate in 9.8 due to the thick insertion ad in the book and the unforgiving black left side back cover.

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Kir Kanos

Kir Kanos

Posted
Posted
I've said it before, and I'm going to say it again (in just a few seconds, too)...

 

1993 is not the "start" of the Modern age. Neither is 1992 with Image, nor 1991 with Valiant. There was nothing particularly new or innovative about any of these years, and certainly nothing that changed the direction of the entire market (unlike what happened in 1938, 1956/61, 1969/70 and 1979/81.)

 

1991-1993 represent the apex of what had been building for years: the establishment of the "hot artist", the forming of new companies, the introduction of swaths of new characters.

 

To arbitrarily decide that "1992 is Copper, and 1993 is Modern", without any significant, fundamental change to the industry, simply doesn't make sense.

 

If anything...the distribution wars of 1994-1996, with Diamond emerging as the sole winner, had much, much more impact than any single event, or even cluster of events, of 1992-1993.

 

Anyhoo...back to our regularly scheduled thread...

 

Hi RockMyAmadeus, you raise some really great points about the problems with capturing a single era. For instance, some books seem to be transitional from one era to another era (or might even be considered outliers from a statistical point of view). A really interesting article was written on this topic within the Overstreet Comic Book Grading Guide Third Edition (from 2006). The article titled "Comic Book Ages: Defining Eras" by Dr. Arnold T. Blumberg & J.C. Vaughn described a lot of problems with finding consensus for any defining of eras. The article does make reference to several critical books and some critical events for the industry outside of the stories or single books (such as changes to the comics code authority). As for the copper age, the article seems to imply a beginning around 1984 / 1985 (for books like Crisis, TMNT, Secret Wars) and ending in 1992 (with the beginning of image comics). I know this doesn't clear things up too much. I am tempted to quote the paragraphs of the article. I just need to better understand the board rules regarding direct quotations beforehand though.

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DarrenSmith

DarrenSmith

Posted
Posted
Thanks to everyone for the ideas and contributions. I know we will never get 100% agreement on this, but I appreciate all the ideas and suggestions. I'm a big believer in crowdsourcing, and I think your input will make my efforts much stronger.

 

To accommodate all the great suggestions, I'm going to change my "Top 40" list to a "Top 50" list for this year's guide. I'll try to acknowledge everyone who took part in the Guide as well, though the final edits aren't mine to decide... I will use Board names, but PM me if you'd like me to use your real name (or if you'd rather not be mentioned as part of this discussion)...

 

So here's the list I'll likely run with this year:

 

Albedo #2

Amazing Spider-Man #238, #252, #298, #300, #361

Archie's Girls Betty and Veronica #320

Batman #357, #386, #404, #428

Batman: The Dark Knight Returns #1

Batman: The Killing Joke

Bone #1

Caliber Presents #1

Comico Primer #2

Crisis on Infinite Earths #1

The Crow #1

DC Comics Presents #47

Evil Ernie #1

G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero #1

Harbinger #1

Incredible Hulk #271, #340

Iron Man #282

Marvel Graphic Novel #4

Marvel Super Heroes Secret Wars #8

Miracleman #15

New Mutants #87, #98, Annual #2

Sandman #1, #8

Spectacular Spider-Man #64

Swamp Thing #21, #37

Starslayer #2

Tales of the New Teen Titans #44

Thor #337

Transformers #1

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles #1

Uncanny X-men #221, #248, #266

Vampirella #113

Warrior #1

Watchmen #1

Wolverine (limited series) #1

X-Factor #6, #24

 

I have to submit my report to Overstreet by December 8, so I guess this is a "speak now or forever hold your peace" moment... But we can always do this again next year!

 

DC Comics Presents 26

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
I've said it before, and I'm going to say it again (in just a few seconds, too)...

 

1993 is not the "start" of the Modern age. Neither is 1992 with Image, nor 1991 with Valiant. There was nothing particularly new or innovative about any of these years, and certainly nothing that changed the direction of the entire market (unlike what happened in 1938, 1956/61, 1969/70 and 1979/81.)

 

1991-1993 represent the apex of what had been building for years: the establishment of the "hot artist", the forming of new companies, the introduction of swaths of new characters.

 

To arbitrarily decide that "1992 is Copper, and 1993 is Modern", without any significant, fundamental change to the industry, simply doesn't make sense.

 

If anything...the distribution wars of 1994-1996, with Diamond emerging as the sole winner, had much, much more impact than any single event, or even cluster of events, of 1992-1993.

 

Anyhoo...back to our regularly scheduled thread...

 

Hi RockMyAmadeus, you raise some really great points about the problems with capturing a single era. For instance, some books seem to be transitional from one era to another era (or might even be considered outliers from a statistical point of view). A really interesting article was written on this topic within the Overstreet Comic Book Grading Guide Third Edition (from 2006). The article titled "Comic Book Ages: Defining Eras" by Dr. Arnold T. Blumberg & J.C. Vaughn described a lot of problems with finding consensus for any defining of eras. The article does make reference to several critical books and some critical events for the industry outside of the stories or single books (such as changes to the comics code authority). As for the copper age, the article seems to imply a beginning around 1984 / 1985 (for books like Crisis, TMNT, Secret Wars) and ending in 1992 (with the beginning of image comics). I know this doesn't clear things up too much. I am tempted to quote the paragraphs of the article. I just need to better understand the board rules regarding direct quotations beforehand though.

 

No need, I'm very familiar with the article already, and may have influenced Arnold over the years preceding it. ;) These are arguments I have made for many years. I assisted, in some small way, with the Second Edition (as did several other members here), so I'm sure, since life isn't a vacuum, perhaps my observations over those years made some impact.

 

The problem with "ages", of course, is that we have run out of realistic names, and consigning an "age" to a period of 6-8 years makes little sense.

 

We've discussed this for years here.

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