2004 Original Art Acquisitioins

[JohnBull]

This has certainly been the most interesting thread to hit these boards in a long time and kudos to all who have contributed so far and helped make it so.

 

There has been a certain amount of talk about the relative merits of comic art when compared to “avant garde” art. Like it or not, “avant garde” art, in many forms, has already found acceptance in the critical marketplace of museums and galleries. The merit of even the most extreme of examples has been recognised in a comparatively small number of years.

 

Comics have found some acceptance in the mainstream as an entertainment form and even as an investement form, but never in a purely artistic way, despite the fact that many of the examples cherished here go back 30-60 years.

 

This alone is probably enough evidence that it would take a fairly major shift in tastes to change the publics perception here. It is hard to imagine comic art ever being displayed outside of a specific dedicated museum, rather than in a general gallery. It might be possible to have a single piece or two as part of a wider exhibition dedicated to a cultural phenomenon at a specific point in time (say, in a 1960’s retrospective focusing on pop art), but that’s about as far as it’s likely to go.

 

Remember, just because someone chooses to take sufficient pride in their work to produce output that is superior to the minimum required, this does not mean that they have produced Art.

[Aman619]

Remember, just because someone chooses to take sufficient pride in their work to produce output that is superior to the minimum required, this does not mean that they have produced Art.

 

why not? Its worked that way for a thousand years....?

 

but seriously, that's what separates the best and most memorable from the also-rans. Art takes two to tango. Creator and "audience". The work/artist must be embraced by others (influential others to be specific)... it is no more meaningfull than the marks left in the sand by the receding waters of the tsunami solely by itself.

 

 

whoa.... THAT, was deep....

[shrunkenhead]

it is no more meaningfull than the marks left in the sand by the receding waters of the tsunami solely by itself.

 

 

whoa.... THAT, was deep....

 

So deep you lost me completely!

[THE_BEYONDER]

You know something??? This debate "in itself" just further reinforces my argument that original comic art has relevancy and value. Keep debating!!!!! You just keep proving my point.... this stuff will find itself considered as part of the canon of SIGNIFICANT works. It is irrelevant WHERE it fits into the canon. The debate itself underscores the point.

 

Why do I have the feeling you're buying original art for all the wrong reasons?

[THE_BEYONDER]

I'm glad to see so many people expressing their thoughtful views in a (mostly) non-inflammatory manner.

 

Everyone I've ever met that refers to themselves as an "intellectual"....is in reality...just the opposite.

[Illiterati-migration]

I'm glad to see so many people expressing their thoughtful views in a (mostly) non-inflammatory manner.

 

Everyone I've ever met that refers to themselves as an "intellectual"....is in reality...just the opposite.

 

That must mean that you refer to yourself as an erudite, free-thinking, womanizing intellectual?

 

[krazykat-migration]

Hi board,

 

Just wanted to "chime in"...what a really excellent discussion this has been. I have enjoyed this civilized discussion more so than most. I respect the positions of both sides to this discussion. I believe you guys covered all aspects of the original comic art market, historical significance and escalating prices quite thoroughly. I myself have not yet acquired any comic art and am more of a CGC buyer. Nevertheless, I am intrigued by this discussion and will keep my eyes open for a piece of art that suits my fancy.

 

-Krazy Jay

[Aman619]

it is no more meaningfull than the marks left in the sand by the receding waters of the tsunami solely by itself.

 

 

whoa.... THAT, was deep....

 

So deep you lost me completely!

 

what I was tring to say was, have you looked at the randon piles of broken pieces of civilization that are left from the tsunami? Totally random. but fascinating piles of packaging wrappeers, signage, furniture, produce, car parts etc. A time capsule arranged by cruel nature. I can see (after a suitable period of time) a gallery installation of a pile of Indoinesian tsunami "droppings" like this, or done tongue in cheek as an American version built out of consumer goods etc. Similar stuff has been done, out of steel, ceramics etc...

 

High art indeed!! I think Id have gotten an 'A' in art school for this idea!! political and topical social commentary..

[heartened]

This has certainly been the most interesting thread to hit these boards in a long time and kudos to all who have contributed so far and helped make it so.

 

There has been a certain amount of talk about the relative merits of comic art when compared to “avant garde” art. Like it or not, “avant garde” art, in many forms, has already found acceptance in the critical marketplace of museums and galleries. The merit of even the most extreme of examples has been recognised in a comparatively small number of years.

 

Comics have found some acceptance in the mainstream as an entertainment form and even as an investement form, but never in a purely artistic way, despite the fact that many of the examples cherished here go back 30-60 years.

 

This alone is probably enough evidence that it would take a fairly major shift in tastes to change the publics perception here. It is hard to imagine comic art ever being displayed outside of a specific dedicated museum, rather than in a general gallery. It might be possible to have a single piece or two as part of a wider exhibition dedicated to a cultural phenomenon at a specific point in time (say, in a 1960’s retrospective focusing on pop art), but that’s about as far as it’s likely to go.

 

Remember, just because someone chooses to take sufficient pride in their work to produce output that is superior to the minimum required, this does not mean that they have produced Art.

 

I've been away from the forum for a bit, and I'm amazed at how many people have commented. I do think this is a great thread (my best thread so far!), and I'm glad others are enjoying it. I respect everyone's opinion, as they have all been very well thought-out.

 

For the naysayers... I hope you can cut the comic art believers some slack. We've only been a real hobby for, what, five years? The vast majority of comic book collectors don't even know much about the art market, so we have MANY years before comic art reaches beyond the comic book hobby and makes it as a member of the wider art community. I do believe that this will happen, at least to an extent, over time. We all just need to have more of an open mind to the possibility. It's really not as far-fetched a possibility as some are stating.

 

The VAST majority of original comic art collectors don't care whether this stuff is ultimately recognized. However, comic art DOES have a wider appeal than comic books (by the very nature of art), and, as such, CAN break out into mainstream. The fact that more and more respected museums are exhibiting comic art (especially in Europe) is a testament to this. Is this a flash-in-the-pan based on the success of recent movies? Possibly. But, I think there's more steam to this comic book and comic art hobby than meets the eye.

[THE_BEYONDER]

For the naysayers... I hope you can cut the comic art believers some slack. We've only been a real hobby for, what, five years? The vast majority of comic book collectors don't even know much about the art market, so we have MANY years before comic art reaches beyond the comic book hobby and makes it as a member of the wider art community. I do believe that this will happen, at least to an extent, over time. We all just need to have more of an open mind to the possibility. It's really not as far-fetched a possibility as some are stating.

 

 

After reading this....I'm convinced.

 

Not because I believe that the now existing " fine art " community will accept and/or embrace original comic art, but because given enough time.... we will most likely become that community.

[goldust40]

For the naysayers... I hope you can cut the comic art believers some slack. We've only been a real hobby for, what, five years? The vast majority of comic book collectors don't even know much about the art market, so we have MANY years before comic art reaches beyond the comic book hobby and makes it as a member of the wider art community. I do believe that this will happen, at least to an extent, over time. We all just need to have more of an open mind to the possibility. It's really not as far-fetched a possibility as some are stating.

 

 

After reading this....I'm convinced.

 

Not because I believe that the now existing " fine art " community will accept and/or embrace original comic art, but because given enough time.... we will most likely become that community.

 

If only.......the trouble is, is that despite the medium being one of the U.S.'s great exports (the other being Rock 'n' Roll) with recognizable characters, icons and branding, it is still not a FINE medium. It's a commercial ersatz hybrid that has amalgamated other art forms.

 

I don't see how the medium can take centre stage in the art community, as it's still treated as a sideshow, perhaps due to its' commercialism. In the highbrow U.K. broadsheets articles about the medium are rare, and often they are shallow, supercilious pieces that never focus on the inherent beauty of the four color page. I have never seen the exemplars (Eisner, Frazetta, Fine, Hogarth, Adams, Wrighson, etc. etc.) of the artform mentioned in said papers. The best you can hope for is a dumbed down write-up about the history...........

 

Also the art, as was previously stated, is an unwieldy, unfinished by - product of the finished work, i.e. the published page.

 

Still, we can hope that people will eventually understand that the medium deserves recognition, but considering that it's the cognoscenti who are important regarding this point and not the mass market, that may just be a pipe dream.

[THE_BEYONDER]

For the naysayers... I hope you can cut the comic art believers some slack. We've only been a real hobby for, what, five years? The vast majority of comic book collectors don't even know much about the art market, so we have MANY years before comic art reaches beyond the comic book hobby and makes it as a member of the wider art community. I do believe that this will happen, at least to an extent, over time. We all just need to have more of an open mind to the possibility. It's really not as far-fetched a possibility as some are stating.

 

 

After reading this....I'm convinced.

 

Not because I believe that the now existing " fine art " community will accept and/or embrace original comic art, but because given enough time.... we will most likely become that community.

 

If only.......the trouble is, is that despite the medium being one of the U.S.'s great exports (the other being Rock 'n' Roll) with recognizable characters, icons and branding, it is still not a FINE medium. It's a commercial ersatz hybrid that has amalgamated other art forms.

 

I don't see how the medium can take centre stage in the art community, as it's still treated as a sideshow, perhaps due to its' commercialism. In the highbrow U.K. broadsheets articles about the medium are rare, and often they are shallow, supercilious pieces that never focus on the inherent beauty of the four color page. I have never seen the exemplars (Eisner, Frazetta, Fine, Hogarth, Adams, Wrighson, etc. etc.) of the artform mentioned in said papers. The best you can hope for is a dumbed down write-up about the history...........

 

Also the art, as was previously stated, is an unwieldy, unfinished by - product of the finished work, i.e. the published page.

 

Still, we can hope that people will eventually understand that the medium deserves recognition, but considering that it's the cognoscenti who are important regarding this point and not the mass market, that may just be a pipe dream.

 

Maybe I wasn't being clear. I was suggesting that the next generation would eventually be able to redefine the term " fine art" , as a large percentage of the current community would be dead.

[DESTRO-migration]

>>Still, we can hope that people will eventually understand that the medium deserves recognition, but considering that it's the cognoscenti who are important regarding this point and not the mass market, that may just be a pipe dream. <<

 

Gotta disagree on this one. The "cognoscenti" are not important. Actually it is the masses that will drive the prices. America has always been about new or noveau money. The "cognoscenti"'s ideas about "fine art" should come under question.

[goldust40]

For the naysayers... I hope you can cut the comic art believers some slack. We've only been a real hobby for, what, five years? The vast majority of comic book collectors don't even know much about the art market, so we have MANY years before comic art reaches beyond the comic book hobby and makes it as a member of the wider art community. I do believe that this will happen, at least to an extent, over time. We all just need to have more of an open mind to the possibility. It's really not as far-fetched a possibility as some are stating.

 

 

After reading this....I'm convinced.

 

Not because I believe that the now existing " fine art " community will accept and/or embrace original comic art, but because given enough time.... we will most likely become that community.

 

If only.......the trouble is, is that despite the medium being one of the U.S.'s great exports (the other being Rock 'n' Roll) with recognizable characters, icons and branding, it is still not a FINE medium. It's a commercial ersatz hybrid that has amalgamated other art forms.

 

I don't see how the medium can take centre stage in the art community, as it's still treated as a sideshow, perhaps due to its' commercialism. In the highbrow U.K. broadsheets articles about the medium are rare, and often they are shallow, supercilious pieces that never focus on the inherent beauty of the four color page. I have never seen the exemplars (Eisner, Frazetta, Fine, Hogarth, Adams, Wrighson, etc. etc.) of the artform mentioned in said papers. The best you can hope for is a dumbed down write-up about the history...........

 

Also the art, as was previously stated, is an unwieldy, unfinished by - product of the finished work, i.e. the published page.

 

Still, we can hope that people will eventually understand that the medium deserves recognition, but considering that it's the cognoscenti who are important regarding this point and not the mass market, that may just be a pipe dream.

 

Maybe I wasn't being clear. I was suggesting that the next generation would eventually be able to redefine the term " fine art" , as a large percentage of the current community would be dead.

 

I understood, but that would require the next generation of the wealthy elite who dominate the Fine art market to be radically different from their predecessors.

 

Judging by the media and the art world's attitude to the four color medium, that would mean the cognoscenti (as I referred to them) becoming interested in something mainstream that was not discovered by them. They already ARE interested in "works" which are far less conventionally artistic than comics, such as the utter worthless garbage by Tracey Emin, Damien Hirst, Jeff Koons etc.

 

It'd have to be the moneyed intelligentsia's own thing. And to become the moneyed intelligentsia, you've got to have media savvy, snob appeal, and vast amounts of disposable cash. Enough to persuade the media that "artefacts" like pickled sheep and unmade beds (I kid thee not) are fine art. Like our very own Charles Saatchi.

 

Too much of a step in one generation, even if we do have Steve Geppi.

[goldust40]

>>Still, we can hope that people will eventually understand that the medium deserves recognition, but considering that it's the cognoscenti who are important regarding this point and not the mass market, that may just be a pipe dream. <<

 

Gotta disagree on this one. The "cognoscenti" are not important. Actually it is the masses that will drive the prices. America has always been about new or noveau money. The "cognoscenti"'s ideas about "fine art" should come under question.

 

Hey, that was my quote. I'm going to be concensual here and say that I was looking at things from a British perspective. In the U.S. the situation may well be different and ripe for development, although it has to be said that at the moment it's a small pool of wealthy collectors who drive the market in America.

[DESTRO-migration]

We shall see. We shall see. I'll meet you back here in a year. And I'm willing to wager a steak dinner that prices are higher...much higher than they are today.

[DESTRO-migration]

Thanks for being conseual !!!

[THE_BEYONDER]

For the naysayers... I hope you can cut the comic art believers some slack. We've only been a real hobby for, what, five years? The vast majority of comic book collectors don't even know much about the art market, so we have MANY years before comic art reaches beyond the comic book hobby and makes it as a member of the wider art community. I do believe that this will happen, at least to an extent, over time. We all just need to have more of an open mind to the possibility. It's really not as far-fetched a possibility as some are stating.

 

 

After reading this....I'm convinced.

 

Not because I believe that the now existing " fine art " community will accept and/or embrace original comic art, but because given enough time.... we will most likely become that community.

 

If only.......the trouble is, is that despite the medium being one of the U.S.'s great exports (the other being Rock 'n' Roll) with recognizable characters, icons and branding, it is still not a FINE medium. It's a commercial ersatz hybrid that has amalgamated other art forms.

 

I don't see how the medium can take centre stage in the art community, as it's still treated as a sideshow, perhaps due to its' commercialism. In the highbrow U.K. broadsheets articles about the medium are rare, and often they are shallow, supercilious pieces that never focus on the inherent beauty of the four color page. I have never seen the exemplars (Eisner, Frazetta, Fine, Hogarth, Adams, Wrighson, etc. etc.) of the artform mentioned in said papers. The best you can hope for is a dumbed down write-up about the history...........

 

Also the art, as was previously stated, is an unwieldy, unfinished by - product of the finished work, i.e. the published page.

 

Still, we can hope that people will eventually understand that the medium deserves recognition, but considering that it's the cognoscenti who are important regarding this point and not the mass market, that may just be a pipe dream.

 

Maybe I wasn't being clear. I was suggesting that the next generation would eventually be able to redefine the term " fine art" , as a large percentage of the current community would be dead.

 

I understood, but that would require the next generation of the wealthy elite who dominate the Fine art market to be radically different from their predecessors.

 

Judging by the media and the art world's attitude to the four color medium, that would mean the cognoscenti (as I referred to them) becoming interested in something mainstream that was not discovered by them. They already ARE interested in "works" which are far less conventionally artistic than comics, such as the utter worthless garbage by Tracey Emin, Damien Hirst, Jeff Koons etc.

 

It'd have to be the moneyed intelligentsia's own thing. And to become the moneyed intelligentsia, you've got to have media savvy, snob appeal, and vast amounts of disposable cash. Enough to persuade the media that "artefacts" like pickled sheep and unmade beds (I kid thee not) are fine art. Like our very own Charles Saatchi.

 

Too much of a step in one generation, even if we do have Steve Geppi.

 

Don't you believe in change ? There is a different kind of money out there nowadays....it's called STUPID MONEY . Don't picture the snobbish elite , picture Rodney Dangerfield in Caddy Shack.

 

Or was that EASY MONEY

[goldust40]

We shall see. We shall see. I'll meet you back here in a year. And I'm willing to wager a steak dinner that prices are higher...much higher than they are today.

 

You may well be right, so I'll pass on the bet (I'm a useless gambler). We'll compare notes this time next year, though. Should be interesting.

[goldust40]

Don't you believe in change ? There is a different kind of money out there nowadays....it's called STUPID MONEY . Don't picture the snobbish elite , picture Rodney Dangerfield in Caddy Shack.

 

Or was that EASY MONEY

 

I believe!!!! Bring on the stupid money!!! Give me some of that nouveau riche moolah!