2004 Original Art Acquisitioins

[heartened]

Gene,

 

I'm beginning to feel like the "doubter" in your Hungarian proverb.

[delekkerste]

I agree. I am not a big fan of Pollock's work, but I would prefer one of his pieces over any comic "artwork."

 

I would have to agree. I'm not a big fan of Modern or Contemporary art, but some of Pollock's work is really quite impressive in person (here's a great piece from the MoMA below). Size really does matter when it comes to art!! I've seen that Schomburg Torch cover in person and it's really not that awe-inspiring compared to standing in front of a Pollock masterpiece that takes up an entire wall!!

 

[Murph]

Hey, there's that "Glen" guy in the picture!

 

Brian

[DESTRO-migration]

YOU GUYS ARE HOPELESS, IF YOU WOULD HONESTLY TAKE THE POLLOCK INSTEAD OF THE SCHOMBURG. THAT POLLOCK PAINTING IS DOWN-RIGHT HIDEOUS?? WHAT ARE YOU GUYS EVEN DOING ON A COMIC MESSAGE BOARD??? SHEESH !!!!

 

I SHOWED YOU A SCHOMBURG MASTER-PIECE FOR CHRISTS SAKE. ITS AN AMAZING PIECE. AND I DON'T NEED TO SEE IT SELL IN MY LIFE-TIME FOR A MILLION DOLLARS TO KNOW THAT IT IS WORTH IT AND ONE DAY WILL BE RECOGNIZED AS A MILLION DOLLAR PIECE OF ART.

 

I HOPE YOU DON'T DECIDE WHAT IS GOOD ART AFTER THE "MAJORITY" OF SNOTTY ART CIRCLES DEEM IT TO BE SO.

 

WHAT'S A MATTER WITH YOU COMIC GEEKS???

 

YOU SHOULD BE ON MY SIDE:)

 

AFTER ALL, IT TAKES COURAGE NOT TO FOLLOW THE MASSES. AND BE A REAL TRAIL-BLAZER.

[Foolkiller]

[deathlok]

Mr. Glass is that you?

 

"Do you see any Teletubbies in here? Do you see a slender plastic tag clipped to my shirt with my name printed on it? Do you see a little Asian child with a blank expression on his face sitting outside on a mechanical helicopter that shakes when you put quarters in it? No? Well, that's what you see at a toy store. And you must think you're in a toy store, because you're here shopping for an infant named Jeb. "

[heartened]

Mr. Glass is that you?

 

"Do you see any Teletubbies in here? Do you see a slender plastic tag clipped to my shirt with my name printed on it? Do you see a little Asian child with a blank expression on his face sitting outside on a mechanical helicopter that shakes when you put quarters in it? No? Well, that's what you see at a toy store. And you must think you're in a toy store, because you're here shopping for an infant named Jeb. "

 

Not the best movie, but God I love that dialogue!

[FlyingDonut]

To say all art is 100% subjective is a specious argument. Go look at the brushwork on Rembrandt's paintings up close and tell me that it's not better than his contemporaries or indeed not among the greatest art ever greated. Shouldn't skill, vision, etc. be considered?

 

I don't need a textbook to tell me Renoir's paintings are beautiful - I know it when I see them! I didn't major in philosophical aethstetics, so I can't eloquently explain to you in terms of Golden Ratios and all why, but anyone with two eyes should be able to appreciate his work. Devil's advocate or not, I can scarcely believe what I'm hearing...

 

You've just made a subjective argument. You've just made the "I know it when I see it argument," which is the very definition of a subjective argument!

 

You're saying that if somebody believes the original artwork to Amazing Spider-Man 40 is "better" than an impressionist painting, that person is deluded, and that that person can't possibly be right for having that opinion. I think you're welcome to your belief, and I would think that the vast majority of people, both within the comic community and outside it, would agree with you, but don't slam somebody who doesn't share it.

 

It is the same with the Beethoven-Beatles comparison, or any other completely subjective comparison. What somebody likes is subjective, and they probably believe it is the best thing ever. The "fine art" versus pop culture debate has been going on for hundreds of years. Look at the riots (riots!) over Nijinsky's score for "Rites of Spring" in 1914 (and yes, that was a designed name drop ). Or this quote, which is against what is thought of (now) as one of the most beautiful buildings in the world:

 

"We, the writers, painters, sculptors, architects and lovers of the beauty of Paris, do protest with all our vigour and all our indignation, in the name of French taste and endangered French art and history, against the useless and monstrous Eiffel Tower."

[delekkerste]

Gene,

 

I'm beginning to feel like the "doubter" in your Hungarian proverb.

 

Ah, it's all in good fun. Some of us (including Brian and Dave) are planning a trip to either the MoMA or the Met on one of these upcoming weekends. You should join us and we can debate the merits of Romita vs. Rubens, Miller vs. Monet, Byrne vs. Botticelli, Kirby vs. Kandinsky, Ditko vs. Degas, etc.

 

Hey Donut, you're invited too.

[delekkerste]

Here's a Roy Lichtenstein piece from the MoMA - it was apparently based on a panel from some DC romance comic circa 1960:

 

[heartened]

Gene,

 

Where did the term "struggling artist" come from? Why are there so many of them that it's become a joke? Surely, many (if not most) must have studied the greats of yesteryear and even studied the philosophy of what makes "quality" in art. Hell, I even took art history courses at one of the best Art History departments in the States. I'm sure they're all trying to follow these "rules" that make for quality in art.

 

I'll tell you why. It's 100% SUBJECTIVE. You cannot predict success or failure in a subjective medium, and hence you cannot predict quality and value.

[deathlok]

I really love Lichtenstein's fighter plane work. Amazing how simple, yet how dramatic he was able convey the scenario. Simply beautiful stuff.

[FlyingDonut]

"I Don't Care!" is taken from a Secret Hearts DC book. Here's a nice little quote from ArtNews:

 

In an age where commercial art was despised among artists, Lichtenstein introduced his unique version of anti-art that he himself thought would be so deplorable that none would dare hang it. He was proven wrong, as his art was very well-received, and pop art was launched into the big time."

[heartened]

Gene,

 

I'm beginning to feel like the "doubter" in your Hungarian proverb.

 

Ah, it's all in good fun. Some of us (including Brian and Dave) are planning a trip to either the MoMA or the Met on one of these upcoming weekends. You should join us and we can debate the merits of Romita vs. Rubens, Miller vs. Monet, Byrne vs. Botticelli, Kirby vs. Kandinsky, Ditko vs. Degas, etc.

 

Hey Donut, you're invited too.

 

Hi Gene,

 

I know it's all in fun, and it really is an interesting debate. This is actually the first thread that I created that has lasted so long!

 

With these things, I worry that others may take things too seriously. I enjoy a good debate, so I'll continue to post (or at least I'll continue to post until my day off is over... back to interventional cardiology tomorrow!).

 

Debate is good. It makes us all "better", but of course that's my 100% subjective opinion.

[delekkerste]

I'll tell you why. It's 100% SUBJECTIVE. You cannot predict success or failure in a subjective medium, and hence you cannot predict quality and value.

 

Hari,

 

This is exactly why I didn't go to Brown.

 

Gene

[Foolkiller]

FD:

 

This is a conversation that requires more discussion than can adequately be provided here on an internet message board. I remember in the philosophy classes I took making the exact same argument you just made concerning art, standards and opinions and that they are all inherently subjective... and got ripped. It seems like a great argument because you can always say, well, how can you say "I'm wrong" for not liking or liking something. How can you say that one person's opinion is "better" or "worse" regarding artwork, it's all a subjective opinion. This is a heavily used example in many philosophy texts.

 

But what is inherently being discussed is the quality of that opinion. Which is the "better" piece of art. I believe that is not simply a subjective and relative question. We have universal standards to judge whether one piece of art is "better" or "worse". You can still say I "like" one piece more than another. That is the opinion. But we judge the quality of the opinion or that person's opinion. Thus in that context, there is a right or a wrong. You can come up with objective qualities as to what goes into great art and determine what fits into those categories.

 

Incidentally Dan, and I think you know this, I know it when I see it would not be the very definition of a subjective argument, but rather an example of one.

 

Nonetheless, next time I see you, i'd love to discuss this further.

 

To say all art is 100% subjective is a specious argument. Go look at the brushwork on Rembrandt's paintings up close and tell me that it's not better than his contemporaries or indeed not among the greatest art ever greated. Shouldn't skill, vision, etc. be considered?

 

I don't need a textbook to tell me Renoir's paintings are beautiful - I know it when I see them! I didn't major in philosophical aethstetics, so I can't eloquently explain to you in terms of Golden Ratios and all why, but anyone with two eyes should be able to appreciate his work. Devil's advocate or not, I can scarcely believe what I'm hearing...

 

You've just made a subjective argument. You've just made the "I know it when I see it argument," which is the very definition of a subjective argument!

 

You're saying that if somebody believes the original artwork to Amazing Spider-Man 40 is "better" than an impressionist painting, that person is deluded, and that that person can't possibly be right for having that opinion. I think you're welcome to your belief, and I would think that the vast majority of people, both within the comic community and outside it, would agree with you, but don't slam somebody who doesn't share it.

 

It is the same with the Beethoven-Beatles comparison, or any other completely subjective comparison. What somebody likes is subjective, and they probably believe it is the best thing ever. The "fine art" versus pop culture debate has been going on for hundreds of years. Look at the riots (riots!) over Nijinsky's score for "Rites of Spring" in 1914 (and yes, that was a designed name drop ). Or this quote, which is against what is thought of (now) as one of the most beautiful buildings in the world:

 

"We, the writers, painters, sculptors, architects and lovers of the beauty of Paris, do protest with all our vigour and all our indignation, in the name of French taste and endangered French art and history, against the useless and monstrous Eiffel Tower."

[DESTRO-migration]

OK,...figured I'd post the link to the original comic art list-serve message board so that I have fufilled my service to Cobra High Command.

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/comicart-l/

 

Great way to find Ridiculous Priced Art and get the 'in-scoop' on where all the hidden jewels of history are located,..and perhaps get a crack at em too.

 

COBRA !!!!!

[heartened]

I'll tell you why. It's 100% SUBJECTIVE. You cannot predict success or failure in a subjective medium, and hence you cannot predict quality and value.

 

Hari,

 

This is exactly why I didn't go to Brown.

 

Gene

 

Hmm... and here I thought you just didn't get in.

[FlyingDonut]

I'll tell you why. It's 100% SUBJECTIVE. You cannot predict success or failure in a subjective medium, and hence you cannot predict quality and value.

 

Hari,

 

This is exactly why I didn't go to Brown.

 

Gene

 

Hmm... and here I thought you just didn't get in.

 

[shrunkenhead]

 

I guess we disagree. I don't think there are ANY objective measures to judge the quality of artwork.

 

Wait a second...so now we're just going to dismiss about three thousand years of art criticism because it all boils down to "what I like better?" There are no standards of any kind? All art is relative?

 

This is like saying that John Grisham is better than John Milton because "I like it better" and there is no "objective mesaure to judge the quality of artwork." This almost sounds like you're equating current popularity with humanity's ability to recognize genius. Is The Firm a better book than Paradise Lost because it's at the top of the best seller charts?? Sure, as long as "I like it better," right? After all, we don't need no stinkin' textbooks to tell us what's good or bad!