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Valuation

Started by ascher45,

157 posts in this topic

Jaydogrules

Jaydogrules

Posted
Posted
Out of curiosity are there recorded GPA sales from the UK?

 

Yes, GPA reports from sales worldwide. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

Apart from UK dealers.

 

Where the majority of pence copies are traded.

 

GPA doesn't accept data from many American dealers either.

But it does pull data from eBay GBR, and of course most of the auction sites that offer pense copies to a global audience. I would say the playing field is reasonably level. (thumbs u

 

-J.

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Flaming_Telepath

Flaming_Telepath

Posted
Posted
What I look at is publicly recorded sales data which takes no side and has no skin in the game. If you are telling me I need to do an exhaustive analysis of every pence version of every comic out there in order to formulate an educated opinion, then you are the one being unreasonable. There have been other multiple boardies on here that have put the percentage of pence to cents FMV at 50-70%. I'm not sure what your gripe is here, as even you have indicated that they can go for 60% and as high as 80%. I simply pointed out that your 80% is anomalous and not consistent with the majority of the publicly recorded sales data. The reality is if one simply looks at GPA for the main books that most people are chasing, the percentage settles in around the 60% mark on average and can hit up to about 70% on the big keys. If you can move your pence copies at 80% that's great for you. But that percentage is not representative of the overall market, and your buyers should not hope or expect to duplicate that feat on a re-sale.

 

-J.

 

I'm afraid that taking a few data points from GPA on a couple of keys that only a few people are looking to buy is not even in the same galaxy as 'overall market'. You're looking at the niche of a niche of a niche and declaring it gospel.

 

There is a good reason why statisticians prefer larger sample sizes - and taken from as wide a populace as possible - before coming up with some trends.

 

The only thing you can extrapolate from what you've seen is that, through the few venues that report to GPA, low grade slabs of AF #15 and Hulk #1 don't go for much more than 60% of their US counterparts.

 

Everything else is pure conjecture on your part and any reference to the 'overall market' is a stretch of monumental proportions.

 

With due respect, I put more weight on publicly available sales data than I do the unverifiable, and possibly anecdotal accounts of a single dealer. The fact that you are in the business of pence copies makes you an expert to be sure, but also likely biased in your interpretations. This is what makes GPA a valuable tool it is cold hard facts from a large pool of data sources, and again, it supports an FMV of about 60% on average. These aren't numbers I'm pulling from a hat, they are what's readily available for anyone to see that subscribes to GPA.

 

-J.

 

Pence copies are a very small proportion of my stock...right now, they account for roughly 2% of my overall stock...so I'm not sure whether I'm 'in the business of pence copies'. meh

 

And your suggestion that I am being less than honest is not appreciated.

 

Furthermore, GPA sales data on total pence copies sold is less than useless, 'publicly available' or not. The amount of slabbed pence copies is minuscule compared to the raw market. Additionally, how many UK dealers report to GPA?

 

You might as well use the Nasdaq index, or a geiger counter, to determine the comparative value of pence copies...they're just as relevant.

 

I don't believe I stated you were being less than honest, as a suggestion or otherwise. I said that you are more likely to be biased because pense obviously are or have been a notable percentage of your business.

 

And again, with due respect, I would put more faith in the raw data and sales figures reported by GPA, than the anecdotal accounts of a dealer who has a skin in the game. You are actually the one attempting to argue against what is publicly available for the masses to consume and use to make an informed decision for themselves. That data suggests that 60% is the average FMV to cents copies. Others have come on this thread and said that their personal experience has the number closer to 50% at times. Are you suggesting that your personal experience is somehow more valid, complete and reliable than what is being publicly reported to GPA from multiple independent data sources? Or the personal experiences of other boardies?

 

Rhetorical question.

 

-J.

 

Since when has 2% of stock been 'a notable percentage' of anybody's business?

 

And I have zero 'skin in the game'...hell, with 98% of my stock being cents copies, and those cents copies being more expensive, wouldn't it be a lot more sensible for me to steer people away from pence copies and get them to pay more for the cents copies I have?

 

And yes, I am saying that my '...personal experience is somehow more valid, complete and reliable than what is being publicly reported to GPA from multiple independent data sources?...' because GPA has little access to where pence copies are regularly traded...the UK shops, shows and mail order sites, because none of them report to GPA.

 

My point is that I sell pence copies for between 70-80% of cents copies, have done for many years, and have made a lot more sales than GPA reports. Additionally, we are talking of the worldwide market, and yet you discount my evidence - gathered in the home of the pence copy - but are happy to quote the experiences of a few US-based collectors?

 

Can't you see the flaw in your logic?

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Flaming_Telepath

Flaming_Telepath

Posted
Posted
Out of curiosity are there recorded GPA sales from the UK?

 

Yes, GPA reports from sales worldwide. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

Apart from UK dealers.

 

Where the majority of pence copies are traded.

 

GPA doesn't accept data from many American dealers either.

But it does pull data from eBay GBR, and of course most of the auction sites that offer pense copies to a global audience. I would say the playing field is reasonably level. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

So, because there are American dealers who don't report to GPA, that's the same - a level playing field, if you will - as NO UK dealers reporting to GPA?

 

Really?

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Jaydogrules

Jaydogrules

Posted
Posted
Out of curiosity are there recorded GPA sales from the UK?

 

Yes, GPA reports from sales worldwide. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

Apart from UK dealers.

 

Where the majority of pence copies are traded.

 

GPA doesn't accept data from many American dealers either.

But it does pull data from eBay GBR, and of course most of the auction sites that offer pense copies to a global audience. I would say the playing field is reasonably level. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

So, because there are American dealers who don't report to GPA, that's the same - a level playing field, if you will - as NO UK dealers reporting to GPA?

 

Really?

 

If you or any other British dealers sell "anything" on ebay GBR or on any of the major auction houses, GPA is reporting your sales. Whatever private deals you do or convention deals you do are not reported, same as with American dealers selling cents copies. In fact, most American dealers report that their own private sales routinely exceed GPA sometimes by significant percentages. Point being, the playing field is more level than you are making it seem, and that 70-80%of GPA you say you are experiencing in private sales may very well be closer to the 60% relative to what other dealers own private sales of cents copies are that are exceeding GPA. But since they are all "private" we don't know. What we do know is what's publicly reported, and that is about a 60% FMV pense versus cents on average.

 

-J.

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Flaming_Telepath

Flaming_Telepath

Posted
Posted
Out of curiosity are there recorded GPA sales from the UK?

 

Yes, GPA reports from sales worldwide. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

Apart from UK dealers.

 

Where the majority of pence copies are traded.

 

GPA doesn't accept data from many American dealers either.

But it does pull data from eBay GBR, and of course most of the auction sites that offer pense copies to a global audience. I would say the playing field is reasonably level. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

So, because there are American dealers who don't report to GPA, that's the same - a level playing field, if you will - as NO UK dealers reporting to GPA?

 

Really?

 

If you or any other British dealers sell "anything" on ebay GBR or on any of the major auction houses, GPA is reporting your sales. Whatever private deals you do or convention deals you do are not reported, same as with American dealers selling cents copies. In fact, most American dealers report that their own private sales routinely exceed GPA sometimes by significant percentages. Point being, the playing field is more level than you are making it seem, and that 70-80%of GPA you say you are experiencing in private sales may very well be closer to the 60% relative to what other dealers own private sales of cents copies are that are exceeding GPA. But since they are all "private" we don't know. What we do know is what's publicly reported, and that is about a 60% FMV pense versus cents on average.

 

-J.

 

I think you'll find that US dealer 'private' and show sales are reported to GPA.

 

Whereas none are currently reported from the UK.

 

How is this a level playing field?

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Jaydogrules

Jaydogrules

Posted
Posted
Out of curiosity are there recorded GPA sales from the UK?

 

Yes, GPA reports from sales worldwide. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

Apart from UK dealers.

 

Where the majority of pence copies are traded.

 

GPA doesn't accept data from many American dealers either.

But it does pull data from eBay GBR, and of course most of the auction sites that offer pense copies to a global audience. I would say the playing field is reasonably level. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

So, because there are American dealers who don't report to GPA, that's the same - a level playing field, if you will - as NO UK dealers reporting to GPA?

 

Really?

 

If you or any other British dealers sell "anything" on ebay GBR or on any of the major auction houses, GPA is reporting your sales. Whatever private deals you do or convention deals you do are not reported, same as with American dealers selling cents copies. In fact, most American dealers report that their own private sales routinely exceed GPA sometimes by significant percentages. Point being, the playing field is more level than you are making it seem, and that 70-80%of GPA you say you are experiencing in private sales may very well be closer to the 60% relative to what other dealers own private sales of cents copies are that are exceeding GPA. But since they are all "private" we don't know. What we do know is what's publicly reported, and that is about a 60% FMV pense versus cents on average.

 

-J.

 

I think you'll find that US dealer 'private' and show sales are reported to GPA.

 

Whereas none are currently reported from the UK.

 

How is this a level playing field?

 

I am not aware of GPA accepting "private" sales or convention data from any individual dealer.

 

-J.

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Flaming_Telepath

Flaming_Telepath

Posted
Posted
Out of curiosity are there recorded GPA sales from the UK?

 

Yes, GPA reports from sales worldwide. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

Apart from UK dealers.

 

Where the majority of pence copies are traded.

 

GPA doesn't accept data from many American dealers either.

But it does pull data from eBay GBR, and of course most of the auction sites that offer pense copies to a global audience. I would say the playing field is reasonably level. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

So, because there are American dealers who don't report to GPA, that's the same - a level playing field, if you will - as NO UK dealers reporting to GPA?

 

Really?

 

If you or any other British dealers sell "anything" on ebay GBR or on any of the major auction houses, GPA is reporting your sales. Whatever private deals you do or convention deals you do are not reported, same as with American dealers selling cents copies. In fact, most American dealers report that their own private sales routinely exceed GPA sometimes by significant percentages. Point being, the playing field is more level than you are making it seem, and that 70-80%of GPA you say you are experiencing in private sales may very well be closer to the 60% relative to what other dealers own private sales of cents copies are that are exceeding GPA. But since they are all "private" we don't know. What we do know is what's publicly reported, and that is about a 60% FMV pense versus cents on average.

 

-J.

 

I think you'll find that US dealer 'private' and show sales are reported to GPA.

 

Whereas none are currently reported from the UK.

 

How is this a level playing field?

 

I am not aware of GPA accepting "private" sales or convention data from any individual dealer.

 

-J.

 

Well, here's a list of them who do report "private" sales or convention data...

 

ComicConnect

Comicana Direct

World Wide Comics

Heritage Auctions Comic Market

Metropolis Comics

Pedigree Comics

Quality Comix

Paradise Comics

Investment Collectibles

Vintage Collectables

Esquire Comics

Mile High Comics

Archangels

Lewis Wayne Gallery

My Comic Shop

Cloud 9 Comics

Greg Reece Comics

Empire Collectibles

Comic Safari

Heronext

Timeless Icons

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Jaydogrules

Jaydogrules

Posted
Posted
Out of curiosity are there recorded GPA sales from the UK?

 

Yes, GPA reports from sales worldwide. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

Apart from UK dealers.

 

Where the majority of pence copies are traded.

 

GPA doesn't accept data from many American dealers either.

But it does pull data from eBay GBR, and of course most of the auction sites that offer pense copies to a global audience. I would say the playing field is reasonably level. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

So, because there are American dealers who don't report to GPA, that's the same - a level playing field, if you will - as NO UK dealers reporting to GPA?

 

Really?

 

If you or any other British dealers sell "anything" on ebay GBR or on any of the major auction houses, GPA is reporting your sales. Whatever private deals you do or convention deals you do are not reported, same as with American dealers selling cents copies. In fact, most American dealers report that their own private sales routinely exceed GPA sometimes by significant percentages. Point being, the playing field is more level than you are making it seem, and that 70-80%of GPA you say you are experiencing in private sales may very well be closer to the 60% relative to what other dealers own private sales of cents copies are that are exceeding GPA. But since they are all "private" we don't know. What we do know is what's publicly reported, and that is about a 60% FMV pense versus cents on average.

 

-J.

 

I think you'll find that US dealer 'private' and show sales are reported to GPA.

 

Whereas none are currently reported from the UK.

 

How is this a level playing field?

 

I am not aware of GPA accepting "private" sales or convention data from any individual dealer.

 

-J.

 

Well, here's a list of them who do report "private" sales or convention data...

 

ComicConnect

Comicana Direct

World Wide Comics

Heritage Auctions Comic Market

Metropolis Comics

Pedigree Comics

Quality Comix

Paradise Comics

Investment Collectibles

Vintage Collectables

Esquire Comics

Mile High Comics

Archangels

Lewis Wayne Gallery

My Comic Shop

Cloud 9 Comics

Greg Reece Comics

Empire Collectibles

Comic Safari

Heronext

Timeless Icons

 

I'm not sure that is exactly correct. Maybe George at GPA can clarify this.

 

Not that I think it changes the analysis much since it is impossible to know of or record "every private sale", regardless of where it happens.

 

This is why publicly offered copies and recorded sales are our best indication, and again, those sales consistently demonstrate the 60% FMV level.

 

-J.

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gaz973

gaz973

Posted
Posted

Since there is a much lower percentage of pence copies that are slabbed than there are slabbed cents copies, that makes GPA of far less use for determining pence values as it's a much smaller sample.

 

Seasoned Golden Age collectors know that GPA is only of limited usefulness when determining values of some Golden Age comics because if the low amount of sales actually recorded. It makes a lot more sense to pay attention to the people who actually deal with those books on a regular basis.

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Flaming_Telepath

Flaming_Telepath

Posted
Posted
Out of curiosity are there recorded GPA sales from the UK?

 

Yes, GPA reports from sales worldwide. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

Apart from UK dealers.

 

Where the majority of pence copies are traded.

 

GPA doesn't accept data from many American dealers either.

But it does pull data from eBay GBR, and of course most of the auction sites that offer pense copies to a global audience. I would say the playing field is reasonably level. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

So, because there are American dealers who don't report to GPA, that's the same - a level playing field, if you will - as NO UK dealers reporting to GPA?

 

Really?

 

If you or any other British dealers sell "anything" on ebay GBR or on any of the major auction houses, GPA is reporting your sales. Whatever private deals you do or convention deals you do are not reported, same as with American dealers selling cents copies. In fact, most American dealers report that their own private sales routinely exceed GPA sometimes by significant percentages. Point being, the playing field is more level than you are making it seem, and that 70-80%of GPA you say you are experiencing in private sales may very well be closer to the 60% relative to what other dealers own private sales of cents copies are that are exceeding GPA. But since they are all "private" we don't know. What we do know is what's publicly reported, and that is about a 60% FMV pense versus cents on average.

 

-J.

 

I think you'll find that US dealer 'private' and show sales are reported to GPA.

 

Whereas none are currently reported from the UK.

 

How is this a level playing field?

 

I am not aware of GPA accepting "private" sales or convention data from any individual dealer.

 

-J.

 

Well, here's a list of them who do report "private" sales or convention data...

 

ComicConnect

Comicana Direct

World Wide Comics

Heritage Auctions Comic Market

Metropolis Comics

Pedigree Comics

Quality Comix

Paradise Comics

Investment Collectibles

Vintage Collectables

Esquire Comics

Mile High Comics

Archangels

Lewis Wayne Gallery

My Comic Shop

Cloud 9 Comics

Greg Reece Comics

Empire Collectibles

Comic Safari

Heronext

Timeless Icons

 

I'm not sure that is exactly correct. Maybe George at GPA can clarify this.

 

Not that I think it changes the analysis much since it is impossible to know of or record "every private sale", regardless of where it happens.

 

This is why publicly offered copies and recorded sales are our best indication, and again, those sales consistently demonstrate the 60% FMV level.

 

-J.

 

As that's from the GPA home page, I'd imagine 'exactly correct' is precisely what it is.

 

And it changes the analysis immensely, as the only UK dealer down there is Comicana Direct...that would be me...and my secret shame is that we've been unable to submit data for some time now, due to pressure of running the business.

 

So the pool of 'evidence' is limited to US dealers and US auction houses, a bit of eBay UK, it's restricted to slabbed sales only, it doesn't include any UK retail data (where the vast majority of pence copies trade)...and yet you think the results it throws up is more likely to be correct than any other source?

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Flaming_Telepath

Flaming_Telepath

Posted
Posted
Since there is a much lower percentage of pence copies that are slabbed than there are slabbed cents copies, that makes GPA of far less use for determining pence values as it's a much smaller sample.

 

Seasoned Golden Age collectors know that GPA is only of limited usefulness when determining values of some Golden Age comics because if the low amount of sales actually recorded. It makes a lot more sense to pay attention to the people who actually deal with those books on a regular basis.

 

That point has been made...and ignored...many pages back. :/

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BarryAllen

BarryAllen

Posted
Posted
Out of curiosity are there recorded GPA sales from the UK?

 

Yes, GPA reports from sales worldwide. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

Apart from UK dealers.

 

Where the majority of pence copies are traded.

 

GPA doesn't accept data from many American dealers either.

But it does pull data from eBay GBR, and of course most of the auction sites that offer pense copies to a global audience. I would say the playing field is reasonably level. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

So, because there are American dealers who don't report to GPA, that's the same - a level playing field, if you will - as NO UK dealers reporting to GPA?

 

Really?

 

If you or any other British dealers sell "anything" on ebay GBR or on any of the major auction houses, GPA is reporting your sales. Whatever private deals you do or convention deals you do are not reported, same as with American dealers selling cents copies. In fact, most American dealers report that their own private sales routinely exceed GPA sometimes by significant percentages. Point being, the playing field is more level than you are making it seem, and that 70-80%of GPA you say you are experiencing in private sales may very well be closer to the 60% relative to what other dealers own private sales of cents copies are that are exceeding GPA. But since they are all "private" we don't know. What we do know is what's publicly reported, and that is about a 60% FMV pense versus cents on average.

 

-J.

 

I think you'll find that US dealer 'private' and show sales are reported to GPA.

 

Whereas none are currently reported from the UK.

 

How is this a level playing field?

 

I am not aware of GPA accepting "private" sales or convention data from any individual dealer.

 

-J.

 

Well, here's a list of them who do report "private" sales or convention data...

 

ComicConnect

Comicana Direct

World Wide Comics

Heritage Auctions Comic Market

Metropolis Comics

Pedigree Comics

Quality Comix

Paradise Comics

Investment Collectibles

Vintage Collectables

Esquire Comics

Mile High Comics

Archangels

Lewis Wayne Gallery

My Comic Shop

Cloud 9 Comics

Greg Reece Comics

Empire Collectibles

Comic Safari

Heronext

Timeless Icons

 

This is not 100% true, at best only a few of their sales make it into GPA. I have personally made purchases from a couple of these dealers and the data never made its way into GPA.

 

If it were true, there would be far more frequent sale entries on a few key books in recent months.

 

 

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Flaming_Telepath

Flaming_Telepath

Posted
Posted
Out of curiosity are there recorded GPA sales from the UK?

 

Yes, GPA reports from sales worldwide. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

Apart from UK dealers.

 

Where the majority of pence copies are traded.

 

GPA doesn't accept data from many American dealers either.

But it does pull data from eBay GBR, and of course most of the auction sites that offer pense copies to a global audience. I would say the playing field is reasonably level. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

So, because there are American dealers who don't report to GPA, that's the same - a level playing field, if you will - as NO UK dealers reporting to GPA?

 

Really?

 

If you or any other British dealers sell "anything" on ebay GBR or on any of the major auction houses, GPA is reporting your sales. Whatever private deals you do or convention deals you do are not reported, same as with American dealers selling cents copies. In fact, most American dealers report that their own private sales routinely exceed GPA sometimes by significant percentages. Point being, the playing field is more level than you are making it seem, and that 70-80%of GPA you say you are experiencing in private sales may very well be closer to the 60% relative to what other dealers own private sales of cents copies are that are exceeding GPA. But since they are all "private" we don't know. What we do know is what's publicly reported, and that is about a 60% FMV pense versus cents on average.

 

-J.

 

I think you'll find that US dealer 'private' and show sales are reported to GPA.

 

Whereas none are currently reported from the UK.

 

How is this a level playing field?

 

I am not aware of GPA accepting "private" sales or convention data from any individual dealer.

 

-J.

 

Well, here's a list of them who do report "private" sales or convention data...

 

ComicConnect

Comicana Direct

World Wide Comics

Heritage Auctions Comic Market

Metropolis Comics

Pedigree Comics

Quality Comix

Paradise Comics

Investment Collectibles

Vintage Collectables

Esquire Comics

Mile High Comics

Archangels

Lewis Wayne Gallery

My Comic Shop

Cloud 9 Comics

Greg Reece Comics

Empire Collectibles

Comic Safari

Heronext

Timeless Icons

 

This is not 100% true, at best only a few of their sales make it into GPA. I have personally made purchases from a couple of these dealers and the data never made its way into GPA.

 

If it were true, there would be far more frequent sale entries on a few key books in recent months.

 

 

So they don't report?

 

George just puts their names up for no apparent reason?

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BarryAllen

BarryAllen

Posted
Posted

 

So they don't report?

 

George just puts their names up for no apparent reason?

 

Three things:

 

1) He puts their names up there because they have reported at least one data entry at some point and it makes for a good business move. Hell, I have no idea how many any one of them provide their data or how often. He has no way of knowing if they report every sale so from his prospective he is safe and validating his business. Without being able to claim they report to him would mean the loss of a ton of business as eBay and most auction data is readily available without GPA.

 

2) Your statement is silly and inflammatory, similar to most of your arguments thus far. You are simply making assertions claiming they are facts because you either call someone's honor into question :o or your own :o and continue to rant as if everyone should just believe what you say is fact.

 

3) Clearly these dealers do not report every single sale. I will not speculate as to why, but it is obvious to anyone with a GPA subscription and spends more than 15 minutes on the internet that this is true.

 

:hi:

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Flaming_Telepath

Flaming_Telepath

Posted
Posted

 

So they don't report?

 

George just puts their names up for no apparent reason?

 

Three things:

 

1) He puts their names up there because they have reported at least one data entry at some point and it makes for a good business move. Hell, I have no idea how many any one of them provide their data or how often. He has no way of knowing if they report every sale so from his prospective he is safe and validating his business. Without being able to claim they report to him would mean the loss of a ton of business as eBay and most auction data is readily available without GPA.

 

2) Your statement is silly and inflammatory, similar to most of your arguments thus far. You are simply making assertions claiming they are facts because you either call someone's honor into question :o or your own :o and continue to rant as if everyone should just believe what you say is fact.

 

3) Clearly these dealers do not report every single sale. I will not speculate as to why, but it is obvious to anyone with a GPA subscription and spends more than 15 minutes on the internet that this is true.

 

:hi:

 

My arguments have been based 100% around facts...

 

(1) My own sales data from many years of dealing.

(2) The much smaller percentage (per capita) of pence copies being slabbed in comparison to their US counterparts. I know this because we're CGC authorised dealers and I know the breakdown of the submissions we make on behalf of customers.

(3) The complete lack of GPA data from UK dealers - other than eBay UK - whereas many US dealers report.

 

Now, until anybody can refute any of those facts, I'll continue to assert that pence copies trade between 70-80% of their US counterparts and certainly a small sample of a very small sample of a niche market...GPA recorded pence copy sales...is not going going to sway me, for the reasons I have already stated.

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BarryAllen

BarryAllen

Posted
Posted

 

So they don't report?

 

George just puts their names up for no apparent reason?

 

Three things:

 

1) He puts their names up there because they have reported at least one data entry at some point and it makes for a good business move. Hell, I have no idea how many any one of them provide their data or how often. He has no way of knowing if they report every sale so from his prospective he is safe and validating his business. Without being able to claim they report to him would mean the loss of a ton of business as eBay and most auction data is readily available without GPA.

 

2) Your statement is silly and inflammatory, similar to most of your arguments thus far. You are simply making assertions claiming they are facts because you either call someone's honor into question :o or your own :o and continue to rant as if everyone should just believe what you say is fact.

 

3) Clearly these dealers do not report every single sale. I will not speculate as to why, but it is obvious to anyone with a GPA subscription and spends more than 15 minutes on the internet that this is true.

 

:hi:

 

My arguments have been based 100% around facts...

 

(1) My own sales data from many years of dealing.

(2) The much smaller percentage (per capita) of pence copies being slabbed in comparison to their US counterparts. I know this because we're CGC authorised dealers and I know the breakdown of the submissions we make on behalf of customers.

(3) The complete lack of GPA data from UK dealers - other than eBay UK - whereas many US dealers report.

 

Now, until anybody can refute any of those facts, I'll continue to assert that pence copies trade between 70-80% of their US counterparts and certainly a small sample of a very small sample of a niche market...GPA recorded pence copy sales...is not going going to sway me, for the reasons I have already stated.

 

I don't think we are far off on value (or ever were).

 

Dealer quoted data but not reported isn't facts, it's heresay. I don't know you so I won't call your honesty into question, but dealers are out to make a profit.

 

Can you at least recognize that the listed dealers don't report ALL of their sales to GPA?

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Jaydogrules

Jaydogrules

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Posted

 

So they don't report?

 

George just puts their names up for no apparent reason?

 

Three things:

 

1) He puts their names up there because they have reported at least one data entry at some point and it makes for a good business move. Hell, I have no idea how many any one of them provide their data or how often. He has no way of knowing if they report every sale so from his prospective he is safe and validating his business. Without being able to claim they report to him would mean the loss of a ton of business as eBay and most auction data is readily available without GPA.

 

2) Your statement is silly and inflammatory, similar to most of your arguments thus far. You are simply making assertions claiming they are facts because you either call someone's honor into question :o or your own :o and continue to rant as if everyone should just believe what you say is fact.

 

3) Clearly these dealers do not report every single sale. I will not speculate as to why, but it is obvious to anyone with a GPA subscription and spends more than 15 minutes on the internet that this is true.

 

:hi:

 

My arguments have been based 100% around facts...

 

(1) My own sales data from many years of dealing.

(2) The much smaller percentage (per capita) of pence copies being slabbed in comparison to their US counterparts. I know this because we're CGC authorised dealers and I know the breakdown of the submissions we make on behalf of customers.

(3) The complete lack of GPA data from UK dealers - other than eBay UK - whereas many US dealers report.

 

Now, until anybody can refute any of those facts, I'll continue to assert that pence copies trade between 70-80% of their US counterparts and certainly a small sample of a very small sample of a niche market...GPA recorded pence copy sales...is not going going to sway me, for the reasons I have already stated.

 

Okay so your position is essentially that all pense copies have an FMV of 70-80% of cents when you "don't" count all the sales that have actually occurred and are reported publicly which show the FMV to be closer to 60%.

 

And you're complaining about GPA using selective data points ?

 

Got it. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

 

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