Valuation

[shadroch]

I think mid grade UK copies will sell for about half to two thirds of what the American counterparts go for, but am intrigued by how a HG copy would do.

[Flaming_Telepath]

I think those people who don't like, don't want, and can't see the allure of pence copies need to consider that their own personal thoughts do not automatically render them worthless.

 

I sell pence copies between 70-80% of their US counterparts.

 

Notice the use of the word 'sell' rather than 'price' or 'ask'.

 

This is good proof right here about the value of Pence copies. And this is being sold in UK I presume Nick?

 

So 80% of the USA counterpart.

 

And yes, finding high grade example of pence copies if quite hard. I don't think I've seen any at all to be honest.

 

 

All GPA and auction data not reported to GPA belies this lofty contention. 70% is about the maximum, and that has only been "one" recent result. All others are in the 60% range, with a few also recent ones even in the 50% range.

 

It is what it is.

 

-J.

 

Erm, it's not a 'lofty contention'.

 

It's what I'm actually selling at, and have been for the last five years.

 

70-80% of the US counterparts, and those sale are both internal and international.

 

I have hundreds and hundreds of recorded sales at that level, on keys and non-descript run-of-the-mill books.

 

Do they fly of the racks? No.

 

Does everything sell? No.

 

But I sell enough...and regularly enough...to give you facts, rather than the suppositions being bandied about in this thread.

[Mark 1]

I think those people who don't like, don't want, and can't see the allure of pence copies need to consider that their own personal thoughts do not automatically render them worthless.

 

I sell pence copies between 70-80% of their US counterparts.

 

Notice the use of the word 'sell' rather than 'price' or 'ask'.

 

This is good proof right here about the value of Pence copies. And this is being sold in UK I presume Nick?

 

So 80% of the USA counterpart.

 

And yes, finding high grade example of pence copies if quite hard. I don't think I've seen any at all to be honest.

 

 

All GPA and auction data not reported to GPA belies this lofty contention. 70% is about the maximum, and that has only been "one" recent result. All others are in the 60% range, with a few also recent ones even in the 50% range.

 

It is what it is.

 

-J.

 

Erm, it's not a 'lofty contention'.

 

It's what I'm actually selling at, and have been for the last five years.

 

70-80% of the US counterparts, and those sale are both internal and international.

 

I have hundreds and hundreds of recorded sales at that level, on keys and non-descript run-of-the-mill books.

 

Do they fly of the racks? No.

 

Does everything sell? No.

 

But I sell enough...and regularly enough...to give you facts, rather than the suppositions being bandied about in this thread.

 

Are these sales globally Nick or just in the UK (just asking because I see that retort coming)

 

 

[oakman29]

I think those people who don't like, don't want, and can't see the allure of pence copies need to consider that their own personal thoughts do not automatically render them worthless.

 

I sell pence copies between 70-80% of their US counterparts.

 

Notice the use of the word 'sell' rather than 'price' or 'ask'.

 

This is good proof right here about the value of Pence copies. And this is being sold in UK I presume Nick?

 

So 80% of the USA counterpart.

 

And yes, finding high grade example of pence copies if quite hard. I don't think I've seen any at all to be honest.

 

 

All GPA and auction data not reported to GPA belies this lofty contention. 70% is about the maximum, and that has only been "one" recent result. All others are in the 60% range, with a few also recent ones even in the 50% range.

 

It is what it is.

 

-J.

 

Erm, it's not a 'lofty contention'.

 

It's what I'm actually selling at, and have been for the last five years.

 

70-80% of the US counterparts, and those sale are both internal and international.

 

I have hundreds and hundreds of recorded sales at that level, on keys and non-descript run-of-the-mill books.

 

Do they fly of the racks? No.

 

Does everything sell? No.

 

But I sell enough...and regularly enough...to give you facts, rather than the suppositions being bandied about in this thread.

 

Are these sales globally Nick or just in the UK (just asking because I see that retort coming)

 

I think if you actually read the post you might get your answer,no?

[Flaming_Telepath]

I think those people who don't like, don't want, and can't see the allure of pence copies need to consider that their own personal thoughts do not automatically render them worthless.

 

I sell pence copies between 70-80% of their US counterparts.

 

Notice the use of the word 'sell' rather than 'price' or 'ask'.

 

This is good proof right here about the value of Pence copies. And this is being sold in UK I presume Nick?

 

So 80% of the USA counterpart.

 

And yes, finding high grade example of pence copies if quite hard. I don't think I've seen any at all to be honest.

 

 

All GPA and auction data not reported to GPA belies this lofty contention. 70% is about the maximum, and that has only been "one" recent result. All others are in the 60% range, with a few also recent ones even in the 50% range.

 

It is what it is.

 

-J.

 

Erm, it's not a 'lofty contention'.

 

It's what I'm actually selling at, and have been for the last five years.

 

70-80% of the US counterparts, and those sale are both internal and international.

 

I have hundreds and hundreds of recorded sales at that level, on keys and non-descript run-of-the-mill books.

 

Do they fly of the racks? No.

 

Does everything sell? No.

 

But I sell enough...and regularly enough...to give you facts, rather than the suppositions being bandied about in this thread.

 

Are these sales globally Nick or just in the UK (just asking because I see that retort coming)

 

 

Globally. (thumbs u

 

There are a good number of boarders who have purchase pence copies from me, both keys and otherwise, and I have a client base elsewhere that is happy to pick them up.

[Jaydogrules]

I think those people who don't like, don't want, and can't see the allure of pence copies need to consider that their own personal thoughts do not automatically render them worthless.

 

I sell pence copies between 70-80% of their US counterparts.

 

Notice the use of the word 'sell' rather than 'price' or 'ask'.

 

This is good proof right here about the value of Pence copies. And this is being sold in UK I presume Nick?

 

So 80% of the USA counterpart.

 

And yes, finding high grade example of pence copies if quite hard. I don't think I've seen any at all to be honest.

 

 

All GPA and auction data not reported to GPA belies this lofty contention. 70% is about the maximum, and that has only been "one" recent result. All others are in the 60% range, with a few also recent ones even in the 50% range.

 

It is what it is.

 

-J.

 

Erm, it's not a 'lofty contention'.

 

It's what I'm actually selling at, and have been for the last five years.

 

70-80% of the US counterparts, and those sale are both internal and international.

 

I have hundreds and hundreds of recorded sales at that level, on keys and non-descript run-of-the-mill books.

 

Do they fly of the racks? No.

 

Does everything sell? No.

 

But I sell enough...and regularly enough...to give you facts, rather than the suppositions being bandied about in this thread.

 

Are these sales globally Nick or just in the UK (just asking because I see that retort coming)

 

 

Globally. (thumbs u

 

There are a good number of boarders who have purchase pence copies from me, both keys and otherwise, and I have a client base elsewhere that is happy to pick them up.

 

I don't believe anyone is disputing your individual sales.

 

However the market at large obviously extends beyond one dealer.

 

The simple fact is that the vast, vast majority of publicly recorded sales data is not in line with the results you have been able to individually achieve.

 

Pence copies in the market at large have certainly gone up in value, but their percentage value relative to their cents counterparts has been fairly consistent for years.

 

-J.

[Mark 1]

I think those people who don't like, don't want, and can't see the allure of pence copies need to consider that their own personal thoughts do not automatically render them worthless.

 

I sell pence copies between 70-80% of their US counterparts.

 

Notice the use of the word 'sell' rather than 'price' or 'ask'.

 

This is good proof right here about the value of Pence copies. And this is being sold in UK I presume Nick?

 

So 80% of the USA counterpart.

 

And yes, finding high grade example of pence copies if quite hard. I don't think I've seen any at all to be honest.

 

 

All GPA and auction data not reported to GPA belies this lofty contention. 70% is about the maximum, and that has only been "one" recent result. All others are in the 60% range, with a few also recent ones even in the 50% range.

 

It is what it is.

 

-J.

 

Erm, it's not a 'lofty contention'.

 

It's what I'm actually selling at, and have been for the last five years.

 

70-80% of the US counterparts, and those sale are both internal and international.

 

I have hundreds and hundreds of recorded sales at that level, on keys and non-descript run-of-the-mill books.

 

Do they fly of the racks? No.

 

Does everything sell? No.

 

But I sell enough...and regularly enough...to give you facts, rather than the suppositions being bandied about in this thread.

 

Are these sales globally Nick or just in the UK (just asking because I see that retort coming)

 

I think if you actually read the post you might get your answer,no?

 

That only assumes I read the whole thing.

 

Thanks

[Flaming_Telepath]

I think those people who don't like, don't want, and can't see the allure of pence copies need to consider that their own personal thoughts do not automatically render them worthless.

 

I sell pence copies between 70-80% of their US counterparts.

 

Notice the use of the word 'sell' rather than 'price' or 'ask'.

 

This is good proof right here about the value of Pence copies. And this is being sold in UK I presume Nick?

 

So 80% of the USA counterpart.

 

And yes, finding high grade example of pence copies if quite hard. I don't think I've seen any at all to be honest.

 

 

All GPA and auction data not reported to GPA belies this lofty contention. 70% is about the maximum, and that has only been "one" recent result. All others are in the 60% range, with a few also recent ones even in the 50% range.

 

It is what it is.

 

-J.

 

Erm, it's not a 'lofty contention'.

 

It's what I'm actually selling at, and have been for the last five years.

 

70-80% of the US counterparts, and those sale are both internal and international.

 

I have hundreds and hundreds of recorded sales at that level, on keys and non-descript run-of-the-mill books.

 

Do they fly of the racks? No.

 

Does everything sell? No.

 

But I sell enough...and regularly enough...to give you facts, rather than the suppositions being bandied about in this thread.

 

Are these sales globally Nick or just in the UK (just asking because I see that retort coming)

 

 

Globally. (thumbs u

 

There are a good number of boarders who have purchase pence copies from me, both keys and otherwise, and I have a client base elsewhere that is happy to pick them up.

 

I don't believe anyone is disputing your individual sales.

 

However the market at large obviously extends beyond one dealer.

 

The simple fact is that the vast, vast majority of publicly recorded sales data is not in line with the results you have been able to individually achieve.

 

Pence copies in the market at large have certainly gone up in value, but their percentage value relative to their cents counterparts has been fairly consistent for years.

 

-J.

 

How many recorded sales are you basing this on?

 

And are you talking about Hulk #1, TTA #96 in VG+. Howard The Duck #17 in FN+, Avengers #113 in VF...or are you just talking about Hulk #1?

[oakman29]

I think those people who don't like, don't want, and can't see the allure of pence copies need to consider that their own personal thoughts do not automatically render them worthless.

 

I sell pence copies between 70-80% of their US counterparts.

 

Notice the use of the word 'sell' rather than 'price' or 'ask'.

 

This is good proof right here about the value of Pence copies. And this is being sold in UK I presume Nick?

 

So 80% of the USA counterpart.

 

And yes, finding high grade example of pence copies if quite hard. I don't think I've seen any at all to be honest.

 

 

All GPA and auction data not reported to GPA belies this lofty contention. 70% is about the maximum, and that has only been "one" recent result. All others are in the 60% range, with a few also recent ones even in the 50% range.

 

It is what it is.

 

-J.

 

Erm, it's not a 'lofty contention'.

 

It's what I'm actually selling at, and have been for the last five years.

 

70-80% of the US counterparts, and those sale are both internal and international.

 

I have hundreds and hundreds of recorded sales at that level, on keys and non-descript run-of-the-mill books.

 

Do they fly of the racks? No.

 

Does everything sell? No.

 

But I sell enough...and regularly enough...to give you facts, rather than the suppositions being bandied about in this thread.

 

Are these sales globally Nick or just in the UK (just asking because I see that retort coming)

 

I think if you actually read the post you might get your answer,no?

 

That only assumes I read the whole thing.

 

Thanks

Just having fun busting balls this morning.

[steveinthecity]

Would it be fair to say UK collectors slab fewer books than their US counterparts, thus providing a smaller sample size that would show up in GPA reported sales?

[Flaming_Telepath]

Would it be fair to say UK collectors slab fewer books than their US counterparts, thus providing a smaller sample size that would show up in GPA reported sales?

 

I think it's very safe to say that UK collectors slab a lot less than US collectors.

 

Of course, somebody will be along shortly to tell me I'm wrong, despite the fact that I'm a long-standing UK dealer and also an authorised CGC dealer.

[Jeffro.]

Would it be fair to say UK collectors slab fewer books than their US counterparts, thus providing a smaller sample size that would show up in GPA reported sales?

 

I think it's very safe to say that UK collectors slab a lot less than US collectors.

 

Of course, somebody will be along shortly to tell me I'm wrong, despite the fact that I'm a long-standing UK dealer and also an authorised CGC dealer.

 

Your facts have no place here Nick

 

 

[Waylander]

Would it be fair to say UK collectors slab fewer books than their US counterparts, thus providing a smaller sample size that would show up in GPA reported sales?

 

I think it's very safe to say that UK collectors slab a lot less than US collectors.

 

Of course, somebody will be along shortly to tell me I'm wrong, despite the fact that I'm a long-standing UK dealer and also an authorised CGC dealer.

 

The only reason people 'question' your wisdom is just to see your sig line again and again!

 

 

 

 

 

Well that better be the only reason

[Jaydogrules]

I think those people who don't like, don't want, and can't see the allure of pence copies need to consider that their own personal thoughts do not automatically render them worthless.

 

I sell pence copies between 70-80% of their US counterparts.

 

Notice the use of the word 'sell' rather than 'price' or 'ask'.

 

This is good proof right here about the value of Pence copies. And this is being sold in UK I presume Nick?

 

So 80% of the USA counterpart.

 

And yes, finding high grade example of pence copies if quite hard. I don't think I've seen any at all to be honest.

 

 

All GPA and auction data not reported to GPA belies this lofty contention. 70% is about the maximum, and that has only been "one" recent result. All others are in the 60% range, with a few also recent ones even in the 50% range.

 

It is what it is.

 

-J.

 

Erm, it's not a 'lofty contention'.

 

It's what I'm actually selling at, and have been for the last five years.

 

70-80% of the US counterparts, and those sale are both internal and international.

 

I have hundreds and hundreds of recorded sales at that level, on keys and non-descript run-of-the-mill books.

 

Do they fly of the racks? No.

 

Does everything sell? No.

 

But I sell enough...and regularly enough...to give you facts, rather than the suppositions being bandied about in this thread.

 

Are these sales globally Nick or just in the UK (just asking because I see that retort coming)

 

 

Globally. (thumbs u

 

There are a good number of boarders who have purchase pence copies from me, both keys and otherwise, and I have a client base elsewhere that is happy to pick them up.

 

I don't believe anyone is disputing your individual sales.

 

However the market at large obviously extends beyond one dealer.

 

The simple fact is that the vast, vast majority of publicly recorded sales data is not in line with the results you have been able to individually achieve.

 

Pence copies in the market at large have certainly gone up in value, but their percentage value relative to their cents counterparts has been fairly consistent for years.

 

-J.

 

How many recorded sales are you basing this on?

 

And are you talking about Hulk #1, TTA #96 in VG+. Howard The Duck #17 in FN+, Avengers #113 in VF...or are you just talking about Hulk #1?

 

I looked at hulk 1 and AF 15. I figure if anything the smallest percentage disparity would exist in those as collectors flock to them as a less expensive way to acquire a big book as the cents versions become more cost prohibitive.

 

-J.

[Flaming_Telepath]

I think those people who don't like, don't want, and can't see the allure of pence copies need to consider that their own personal thoughts do not automatically render them worthless.

 

I sell pence copies between 70-80% of their US counterparts.

 

Notice the use of the word 'sell' rather than 'price' or 'ask'.

 

This is good proof right here about the value of Pence copies. And this is being sold in UK I presume Nick?

 

So 80% of the USA counterpart.

 

And yes, finding high grade example of pence copies if quite hard. I don't think I've seen any at all to be honest.

 

 

All GPA and auction data not reported to GPA belies this lofty contention. 70% is about the maximum, and that has only been "one" recent result. All others are in the 60% range, with a few also recent ones even in the 50% range.

 

It is what it is.

 

-J.

 

Erm, it's not a 'lofty contention'.

 

It's what I'm actually selling at, and have been for the last five years.

 

70-80% of the US counterparts, and those sale are both internal and international.

 

I have hundreds and hundreds of recorded sales at that level, on keys and non-descript run-of-the-mill books.

 

Do they fly of the racks? No.

 

Does everything sell? No.

 

But I sell enough...and regularly enough...to give you facts, rather than the suppositions being bandied about in this thread.

 

Are these sales globally Nick or just in the UK (just asking because I see that retort coming)

 

 

Globally. (thumbs u

 

There are a good number of boarders who have purchase pence copies from me, both keys and otherwise, and I have a client base elsewhere that is happy to pick them up.

 

I don't believe anyone is disputing your individual sales.

 

However the market at large obviously extends beyond one dealer.

 

The simple fact is that the vast, vast majority of publicly recorded sales data is not in line with the results you have been able to individually achieve.

 

Pence copies in the market at large have certainly gone up in value, but their percentage value relative to their cents counterparts has been fairly consistent for years.

 

-J.

 

How many recorded sales are you basing this on?

 

And are you talking about Hulk #1, TTA #96 in VG+. Howard The Duck #17 in FN+, Avengers #113 in VF...or are you just talking about Hulk #1?

 

I looked at hulk 1 and AF 15. I figure if anything the smallest percentage disparity would exist in those as collectors flock to them as a less expensive way to acquire a big book as the cents versions become more cost prohibitive.

 

-J.

 

So on the back of two books...a minute proportion of the overall market...and both of them slabbed...now a minuscule proportion of the market...you feel comfortable not only making sweeping generalisations regarding the whole market, but also disagreeing with somebody who's been working within this whole market for many years and has hundreds and hundreds of data points to refer to?

 

I'm out...there's a brick wall over there ===> I need to converse with.

[comicdonna]

[Jaydogrules]

I think those people who don't like, don't want, and can't see the allure of pence copies need to consider that their own personal thoughts do not automatically render them worthless.

 

I sell pence copies between 70-80% of their US counterparts.

 

Notice the use of the word 'sell' rather than 'price' or 'ask'.

 

This is good proof right here about the value of Pence copies. And this is being sold in UK I presume Nick?

 

So 80% of the USA counterpart.

 

And yes, finding high grade example of pence copies if quite hard. I don't think I've seen any at all to be honest.

 

 

All GPA and auction data not reported to GPA belies this lofty contention. 70% is about the maximum, and that has only been "one" recent result. All others are in the 60% range, with a few also recent ones even in the 50% range.

 

It is what it is.

 

-J.

 

Erm, it's not a 'lofty contention'.

 

It's what I'm actually selling at, and have been for the last five years.

 

70-80% of the US counterparts, and those sale are both internal and international.

 

I have hundreds and hundreds of recorded sales at that level, on keys and non-descript run-of-the-mill books.

 

Do they fly of the racks? No.

 

Does everything sell? No.

 

But I sell enough...and regularly enough...to give you facts, rather than the suppositions being bandied about in this thread.

 

Are these sales globally Nick or just in the UK (just asking because I see that retort coming)

 

 

Globally. (thumbs u

 

There are a good number of boarders who have purchase pence copies from me, both keys and otherwise, and I have a client base elsewhere that is happy to pick them up.

 

I don't believe anyone is disputing your individual sales.

 

However the market at large obviously extends beyond one dealer.

 

The simple fact is that the vast, vast majority of publicly recorded sales data is not in line with the results you have been able to individually achieve.

 

Pence copies in the market at large have certainly gone up in value, but their percentage value relative to their cents counterparts has been fairly consistent for years.

 

-J.

 

How many recorded sales are you basing this on?

 

And are you talking about Hulk #1, TTA #96 in VG+. Howard The Duck #17 in FN+, Avengers #113 in VF...or are you just talking about Hulk #1?

 

I looked at hulk 1 and AF 15. I figure if anything the smallest percentage disparity would exist in those as collectors flock to them as a less expensive way to acquire a big book as the cents versions become more cost prohibitive.

 

-J.

 

So on the back of two books...a minute proportion of the overall market...and both of them slabbed...now a minuscule proportion of the market...you feel comfortable not only making sweeping generalisations regarding the whole market, but also disagreeing with somebody who's been working within this whole market for many years and has hundreds and hundreds of data points to refer to?

 

I'm out...there's a brick wall over there ===> I need to converse with.

 

What I look at is publicly recorded sales data which takes no side and has no skin in the game. If you are telling me I need to do an exhaustive analysis of every pence version of every comic out there in order to formulate an educated opinion, then you are the one being unreasonable. There have been other multiple boardies on here that have put the percentage of pence to cents FMV at 50-70%. I'm not sure what your gripe is here, as even you have indicated that they can go for 60% and as high as 80%. I simply pointed out that your 80% is anomalous and not consistent with the majority of the publicly recorded sales data. The reality is if one simply looks at GPA for the main books that most people are chasing, the percentage settles in around the 60% mark on average and can hit up to about 70% on the big keys. If you can move your pence copies at 80% that's great for you. But that percentage is not representative of the overall market, and your buyers should not hope or expect to duplicate that feat on a re-sale.

 

-J.

[Flaming_Telepath]

What I look at is publicly recorded sales data which takes no side and has no skin in the game. If you are telling me I need to do an exhaustive analysis of every pence version of every comic out there in order to formulate an educated opinion, then you are the one being unreasonable. There have been other multiple boardies on here that have put the percentage of pence to cents FMV at 50-70%. I'm not sure what your gripe is here, as even you have indicated that they can go for 60% and as high as 80%. I simply pointed out that your 80% is anomalous and not consistent with the majority of the publicly recorded sales data. The reality is if one simply looks at GPA for the main books that most people are chasing, the percentage settles in around the 60% mark on average and can hit up to about 70% on the big keys. If you can move your pence copies at 80% that's great for you. But that percentage is not representative of the overall market, and your buyers should not hope or expect to duplicate that feat on a re-sale.

 

-J.

 

I'm afraid that taking a few data points from GPA on a couple of keys that only a few people are looking to buy is not even in the same galaxy as 'overall market'. You're looking at the niche of a niche of a niche and declaring it gospel.

 

There is a good reason why statisticians prefer larger sample sizes - and taken from as wide a populace as possible - before coming up with some trends.

 

The only thing you can extrapolate from what you've seen is that, through the few venues that report to GPA, low grade slabs of AF #15 and Hulk #1 don't go for much more than 60% of their US counterparts.

 

Everything else is pure conjecture on your part and any reference to the 'overall market' is a stretch of monumental proportions.

[Jaydogrules]

What I look at is publicly recorded sales data which takes no side and has no skin in the game. If you are telling me I need to do an exhaustive analysis of every pence version of every comic out there in order to formulate an educated opinion, then you are the one being unreasonable. There have been other multiple boardies on here that have put the percentage of pence to cents FMV at 50-70%. I'm not sure what your gripe is here, as even you have indicated that they can go for 60% and as high as 80%. I simply pointed out that your 80% is anomalous and not consistent with the majority of the publicly recorded sales data. The reality is if one simply looks at GPA for the main books that most people are chasing, the percentage settles in around the 60% mark on average and can hit up to about 70% on the big keys. If you can move your pence copies at 80% that's great for you. But that percentage is not representative of the overall market, and your buyers should not hope or expect to duplicate that feat on a re-sale.

 

-J.

 

I'm afraid that taking a few data points from GPA on a couple of keys that only a few people are looking to buy is not even in the same galaxy as 'overall market'. You're looking at the niche of a niche of a niche and declaring it gospel.

 

There is a good reason why statisticians prefer larger sample sizes - and taken from as wide a populace as possible - before coming up with some trends.

 

The only thing you can extrapolate from what you've seen is that, through the few venues that report to GPA, low grade slabs of AF #15 and Hulk #1 don't go for much more than 60% of their US counterparts.

 

Everything else is pure conjecture on your part and any reference to the 'overall market' is a stretch of monumental proportions.

 

With due respect, I put more weight on publicly available sales data than I do the unverifiable, and possibly anecdotal accounts of a single dealer. The fact that you are in the business of pence copies makes you an expert to be sure, but also likely biased in your interpretations. This is what makes GPA a valuable tool it is cold hard facts from a large pool of data sources, and again, it supports an FMV of about 60% on average. These aren't numbers I'm pulling from a hat, they are what's readily available for anyone to see that subscribes to GPA.

 

-J.

[jaeldubyoo]

There's a lot of built-in prejudice against the pence copies that needs to be overcome. Pence copies are perceived to be less desirable than cents copies by most collectors. And really, much of the blame is on the Brits. Most preferred cents copies from the beginning. Of course, Americans preferred something that was not different. A lot of collectors think of them as not first prints. Overstreet has stated that pence copies as worth less. Many are reluctant to buy pence copies for resale or to invest in because they are a tougher sell.