Is X-Men #1 graded CGC 9.2 underrated (Value)?

[Gotham Kid]

I've painfully paid premiums for better PQ even when people say it doesn't matter. To me, it does matter.

 

(when I was chasing 9.8 SA + BA marvels) +1

 

with GA, I had to learn to relax my standards.

[Jaydogrules]

I have never seen "PQ" command any kind of "premium" on any consistent basis. And if one did appear to exist it would be closer to the 3-5% range.

-J.

 

So the difference between a C/OW, OW or OW/W to W is 5%. Gotcha. (thumbs u

 

Let me quickly come up with a sample to corroborate your statement ...

 

I've seen high end key books go for 10-20% more with white pages. I've painfully paid premiums for better PQ even when people say it doesn't matter. To me, it does matter. The closer to off the rack you can get, the better.

 

To each his own. But how do you know the pages were still "white" in the slab ? I have specifically confirmed with the graders at CGC that "PQ" can and does degrade with in the slab. This may have something to do with why they originally did not want to put "PQ" on their labels in the first place.

 

-J.

[passion4comics]

I've painfully paid premiums for better PQ even when people say it doesn't matter. To me, it does matter.

 

(when I was chasing 9.8 SA + BA marvels) +1

 

with GA, I had to learn to relax my standards.

 

Like that Cream/ow I almost dove into this week. I hear you.

[Gotham Kid]

I have specifically confirmed with the graders at CGC that "PQ" can and does degrade with in the slab. This may have something to do with why they originally did not want to put "PQ" on their labels in the first place.

 

-J.

 

I would say that would depend on subsequent storing conditions.

[Jaydogrules]

I have specifically confirmed with the graders at CGC that "PQ" can and does degrade with in the slab. This may have something to do with why they originally did not want to put "PQ" on their labels in the first place.

 

-J.

 

I would say that would depend on subsequent storing conditions.

 

Pete that was literally the next question I asked them. They said that even under the most optimal of storage conditions it can, does and has still happened, though better storage conditions can mitigate it. Problem is, it is impossible to know or verify how a slab has been stored prior to purchasing it.

 

-J.

[Gotham Kid]

I'd be curious what explanation they'd have for PQ bumps on books graded over 10 years ago. Following their beliefs, a oww from yesteryear should be a ow or cow today, not white. Or maybe 10 years is not enough for page degradation to occur. Still doesnt explain how ow/w or even ow or c/ow goes to w.

[Jaydogrules]

I'd be curious what explanation they'd have for PQ bumps on books graded over 10 years ago.

 

"PQ" flip-flops on books that were re-submitted just weeks or months apart have been observed. It's too random to be worth paying a "premium" for. So I never have and never will. Granted, it's neat to see "white pages" on the label of a 50+ year old book, but I take it with a grain of salt.

 

-J.

[Gotham Kid]

off topic but I'm totally digging the Cap1 addition to the sig line

[oakman29]

I'd be curious what explanation they'd have for PQ bumps on books graded over 10 years ago.

 

"PQ" flip-flops on books that were re-submitted just weeks or months apart have been observed. It's too random to be worth paying a "premium" for. So I never have and never will. Granted, it's neat to see "white pages" on the label of a 50+ year old book, but I take it with a grain of salt.

 

-J.

 

Agreed,most of us veterans know that(other than tan\brittle) PQ on the label is a coin flip.

[Jaydogrules]

off topic but I'm diggin' the Cap1 addition to the sig line

 

Thanks Peter just got the book in hand Friday courtesy of Mr. Greg Reece. He pulled it from an OO collection, slabbed it and I was lucky enough to snag it before Heritage auctioned it off in February/March of next year. Probably spent a future child's college education on it but I'm definitely digging this book. But my sig line still does not quite have the GA cred yours does.

 

-J.

[Bomber-Bob]

There is simply no consistent or actual "premium" observed for books with "white pages" on the label.

 

tell that to bomber-bob

 

Jaydog is trying to come here as an official spokesperson for CGC saying the PQ degrades in the slab. If Paul Litch wants to come on and officially state this then I will believe it, otherwise I laugh at that statement. I'll tell you what does degrade in the slab, the press. You may be buying, and paying a premium, for a freshly pressed book in a 9.2 grade that reverts back to it's original state of 8.5 in the slab. I will pay a premium for a white pager, as will many others.

[Jaydogrules]

There is simply no consistent or actual "premium" observed for books with "white pages" on the label.

 

tell that to bomber-bob

 

Jaydog is trying to come here as an official spokesperson for CGC saying the PQ degrades in the slab. If Paul Litch wants to come on and officially state this then I will believe it, otherwise I laugh at that statement. I'll tell you what does degrade in the slab, the press. You may be buying, and paying a premium, for a freshly pressed book in a 9.2 grade that reverts back to it's original state of 8.5 in the slab. I will pay a premium for a white pager, as will many others.

 

Laugh all you want, I'm simply reporting what I was told by a lead grader at CGC in a 20 minute phone call that I only got as a courtesy and I have no reason to lie about it. There are plenty of other collectors with personal experience with "PQ" flip flopping all over the place on re-subs so why you would find this information so "laughable" is in itself, laughable.

 

I understand the concept rocks the very foundation of what you evidently put a disproportionate amount of stock in, but the fact of the matter remains that, whether buying a pressed book in a slab or one that has a "white pages" notation, you should always buy the book and not the label. (thumbs u

 

-J.

[Bomber-Bob]

I believe you had a conversation with CGC on the topic but I just cannot believe they would make such a claim, that the slab itself will degrade the PQ. Why would they say something that would negatively reflect upon their product ? I'll ask the question over in the ASK CGC thread.

[Gotham Kid]

if ever you upgrade the 33 or just plain decide to sell, PM me anytime J. (thumbs u

 

As to page degradation within the slab, I would certainly like to hear from paper specialists ( there are a couple very knowledgeable folks on here that could add to the convo.)

[Gotham Kid]

and flaunt that cap over in Gold will ya !

[namisgr]

There is simply no consistent or actual "premium" observed for books with "white pages" on the label.

 

tell that to bomber-bob

 

Jaydog is trying to come here as an official spokesperson for CGC saying the PQ degrades in the slab. If Paul Litch wants to come on and officially state this then I will believe it, otherwise I laugh at that statement. I'll tell you what does degrade in the slab, the press. You may be buying, and paying a premium, for a freshly pressed book in a 9.2 grade that reverts back to it's original state of 8.5 in the slab. I will pay a premium for a white pager, as will many others.

 

Laugh all you want, I'm simply reporting what I was told by a lead grader at CGC in a 20 minute phone call that I only got as a courtesy and I have no reason to lie about it. There are plenty of other collectors with personal experience with "PQ" flip flopping all over the place on re-subs so why you would find this information so "laughable" is in itself, laughable.

 

I understand the concept rocks the very foundation of what you evidently put a disproportionate amount of stock in, but the fact of the matter remains that, whether buying a pressed book in a slab or one that has a "white pages" notation, you should always buy the book and not the label. (thumbs u

 

-J.

Replace the "PQ" with "numerical grade" and you could make precisely the same argument. Yet as little as a single unit change in numerical grade changes dramatically (by 50% or more) the perceived value of a book.

 

Does page quality really 'flip flop' all over the place, as you claim? Depends on what you mean by the phrase. People who know how to grade page quality will typically hit on the nose about 2/3 of the PQ designations on the books they submit. Unless one is submitting alot of 9.6s and 9.8s, an ~3/4 hit rate is common for correctly guessing numerical grades as well. As for resubmissions, page quality certainly changes a fraction of the time, especially for books that lack cream or snow white pages, but so does the numerical grade. Both can vary by not just one but two units.

 

As for the effects of PQ on pricing, I see premium prices being paid all the time for non-key GA, SA, and BA comics with white page quality. I also see non-key C/OW SA and BA comics typically going for significantly less than OW/W or better books. To suggest otherwise is nothing more than making the argument that 'I have confirmed this view by thinking about it'.

[Jaydogrules]

I believe you had a conversation with CGC on the topic but I just cannot believe they would make such a claim, that the slab itself will degrade the PQ. Why would they say something that would negatively reflect upon their product ? I'll ask the question over in the ASK CGC thread.

 

I know right ? But the point was that the slab does not "prevent" degradation of "page quality". No more so than it could stop a book from getting wet if God forbid u dropped it in a bathtub or something. It was made very clear to me that the "PQ" on the label is simply a snap shot in time. It's not a knock against the quality of the slab. And I think most people would agree that all bets are off either way if a slab is not stored properly. This compounds the problem of paying "extra" for "white pages" because CGC also (and obviously) cannot certify how their slabs have been kept.

 

-J.

[Jaydogrules]

There is simply no consistent or actual "premium" observed for books with "white pages" on the label.

 

tell that to bomber-bob

 

Jaydog is trying to come here as an official spokesperson for CGC saying the PQ degrades in the slab. If Paul Litch wants to come on and officially state this then I will believe it, otherwise I laugh at that statement. I'll tell you what does degrade in the slab, the press. You may be buying, and paying a premium, for a freshly pressed book in a 9.2 grade that reverts back to it's original state of 8.5 in the slab. I will pay a premium for a white pager, as will many others.

 

Laugh all you want, I'm simply reporting what I was told by a lead grader at CGC in a 20 minute phone call that I only got as a courtesy and I have no reason to lie about it. There are plenty of other collectors with personal experience with "PQ" flip flopping all over the place on re-subs so why you would find this information so "laughable" is in itself, laughable.

 

I understand the concept rocks the very foundation of what you evidently put a disproportionate amount of stock in, but the fact of the matter remains that, whether buying a pressed book in a slab or one that has a "white pages" notation, you should always buy the book and not the label. (thumbs u

 

-J.

Replace the "PQ" with "numerical grade" and you could make precisely the same argument. Yet as little as a single unit change in numerical grade changes dramatically (by 50% or more) the perceived value of a book.

 

Does page quality really 'flip flop' all over the place, as you claim? Depends on what you mean by the phrase. People who know how to grade page quality will typically hit on the nose about 2/3 of the PQ designations on the books they submit. Unless one is submitting alot of 9.6s and 9.8s, an ~3/4 hit rate is common for correctly guessing numerical grades as well. As for resubmissions, page quality certainly changes a fraction of the time for books that lack cream or snow white pages, but so does the numerical grade. Both can vary by not just one but two units.

 

As for the effects of PQ on pricing, I see premium prices being paid all the time for GA, SA, and BA comics with white page quality. I also see non-key C/OW SA and BA comics typically going for significantly less than OW/W or better books. To suggest otherwise is nothing more than making the argument that 'I have confirmed this view by thinking about it'.

 

I respect your opinion, but there simply is no regular "premium" paid for books with "white pages" on the label. Whatever differences you have seen in prices paid here and there could have been for other reasons having nothing to do with "PQ". U simply can not know what every buyer's motivation are for paying more for a book, and books with "ow/w pages" on down set GPA highs all the time. Further, a book's structural grade can and usually is more easily discernible through the slab, and any further questions about a book can be answered by getting the graders' notes. "PQ" is far, far more subjective, and as such, is notoriously inconsistent.

 

-J.

[Bomber-Bob]

Okay, I have submitted the question to CGC on PQ degradation from the slab, hopefully I will get a response. So, according to some, the following will cause degradation of our books.....

- Storing the books in a safe

- Storing the books in a Safety Deposit Box

- Storing the books in a wooded drawer

- And now simply storing the books in the slab.

 

I would like to raise another concern. What if we fart in the proximity of the book ?

[namisgr]

I respect your opinion, but there simply is no regular "premium" paid for books with "white pages" on the label. Whatever differences you have seen in prices paid here and there could have been for other reasons having nothing to fo with "PQ".

 

-J.

 

Right, you have confirmed this view by thinking about it. (thumbs u

 

My experience in 15 years of bidding on books at auction and valuing page quality as an important feature suggests something different. As a consignor of slabbed books, it has also been my experience that higher prices are commonly realized for SA comics with white page quality, and lower prices for SA (excepting 10 cent DCs) and BA comics with C/OW pages.