Can someone help me start small and not make mistakes ....

[Chillax23]

So I am thinking of dipping my toe into the original art ocean and was hoping to get some preliminary guidance - I have read some of the information threads, but had a few specific question I was hoping this sub-forum could asnwer.

 

I am mainly looking for some Superman original art pages (and maybe eventually a cover) - so I was wondering if there were particular vendors who specialized in different heroes or whether most dealers stock a variety? Also who is a good and reputable dealer to use? I see quite a few pages on Ebay - but I am not sure how to tell if they are real or fake. For example - this looks legitimate to me - but how would I know:

 

http://http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pat-Lee-BATMAN-SUPERMAN-Original-Comic-book-art-35-Page-22-DC-COMICS-/251752229856?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a9d9a2be0

 

I want to start small with a few minor pages to see if it is truly something I want to contiue to collect - especially since this will re-route cash from my Silver Age comic collecting

 

So basically looking for tips to tell if somethign is real or fake, reputable dealers/sources of OA pages, and whether Ebay is wortha go or a complete waste of time?

 

Also, why do I see soem pages with wording completed and some pages with blank word bubbles or none at all? I assume these are different stages of compelteness? I would assume that the pages with the word bubbles are more desireable?

 

Cheers all,

 

 

[theflashunc]

Lettering began to phase out from pages in the 1990s as companies went to digital lettering instead of traditional. Timeframe will vary -- some creators putting stuff out even now still use traditional lettering -- but generally anything from the mid-90s on will just be panels without "the words."

 

 

 

 

[suspense39]

Go to comic art fans, on the left there is a bunch of links to dealers. You can also do a search for what you are looking for and it will show the dealers who have what you're looking for.

[Solar]

In general, you won't run into a lot of high quality fakes of published art.

 

You're more likely to encounter fakes if you're buying simple convention sketches by high profile artists. There's very little incentive to fake that $70 Superman page you linked, especially since it can be compared to the published version.

[Dick O.]

Window-shop extensively before buying.

 

Welcome to the hobby!

[zhamlau]

Honestly its worth doing 2 things for research, one costs money the other is free

 

1. Register on Heritage Auctions. Its free and lets you check previous sales with prices and dates. You can then get a good handle on what certain pieces/artists sell for and you can track their values over time. Can even see a piece sell a few times in some cases

 

2. Join www.Comicartfans.com and pay for a premium membership with market research. It lets you track sales across Ebay/HA/Comic Link/Comic Connect

 

 

As for buying, you want

 

1. Ebay (of course)

2. Heritage Auctions (www.ha.com)

3. Comic Link (www.comiclink.com)

4. Comic Connect (www.comicconnect.com)

5. Comic Art fans (classifieds and Sales, www.comicartfans.com)

 

Anyway, good luck.

 

 

[vodou]

Most important thing (ever) for newbies: Make one good already-experienced friend in the hobby, that's not trying to sell to you. Someone you can casually apprentice with. This person will steer you away from obvious badness even if he or she doesn't know specifics of what you're into. If they're local, go to cons with them and run through dealer stock, getting a feel for things, fair prices, etc. If nobody local, you can still be remote and send links, asking for opinions on authenticity but also price, scarcity, and other things.

 

You can do all that here too, but it might be bothersome if you start a new thread every time you see something that's a "possible". And you'll be tipping off your bidding and buying competitors as to what you're looking at. A trusted personal friend in the hobby, that has no monetary interest in your activities, is worth more than anything else. And you'll naturally return the favor over time by doing the same with somebody else and keeping your eyes peeled for the art you find that your mentor may have missed. OA Big Brother program right there!

[mister_not_so_nice]

Most important thing (ever) for newbies: Make one good already-experienced friend in the hobby, that's not trying to sell to you. Someone you can casually apprentice with. This person will steer you away from obvious badness even if he or she doesn't know specifics of what you're into. If they're local, go to cons with them and run through dealer stock, getting a feel for things, fair prices, etc. If nobody local, you can still be remote and send links, asking for opinions on authenticity but also price, scarcity, and other things.

 

You can do all that here too, but it might be bothersome if you start a new thread every time you see something that's a "possible". And you'll be tipping off your bidding and buying competitors as to what you're looking at. A trusted personal friend in the hobby, that has no monetary interest in your activities, is worth more than anything else. And you'll naturally return the favor over time by doing the same with somebody else and keeping your eyes peeled for the art you find that your mentor may have missed. OA Big Brother program right there!

 

I'm going to quote this and put it in the newbie thread.

 

Great advice

[suspense39]

Cons first is a good idea, that way you can see art in person and Guage what is good relative to other pieces. A lot of art is very different in person....size, paper and ink quality etc.

[malvin]

Good advice so far, the few things I can add are:

 

1. That link you provided is real. That seller has been selling Pat Lee art for awhile.

 

2. As Solar said, for published pages, especially those that are only a few hundred dollars, fakes are rare. You can easily compare to the published page (although lots of artists do digital enhancements) and it's just not worth the effort to fake it for that amount.

 

3. Fakes for sketches are more common, even if it is only a few hundred, the effort to fake one is much less than a published page so it could be worth it to some people. There is no easy way to learn so pot fake sketches, it's something you pick up from experience.

 

4. Most dealers don't specialize in specific heroes. There are some that are more indy vs more big 2, but specialization is not material, most dealers are pretty general (they would stock what would sell)

 

Good luck and feel free to ask more questions.

 

Malvin

 

 

[theflashunc]

Cons first is a good idea, that way you can see art in person and Guage what is good relative to other pieces. A lot of art is very different in person....size, paper and ink quality etc.

 

Cons, with a couple of buddies, are my preferred way to get art, especially since I'm at the shallow end of the pool. You to get interact with the artist or dealer, have a discussion. BS with your friends. See what they like and don't like. And they can talk you off the ledge if its not the right thing, or totally push you in if it is.

 

That's absolutely the way to go, imo.

[Hekla]

Aelhra's advice is good - wish I had a mentor when I started. My advice is to ask a whole lot of questions... You won't necessarily know what to ask at first, but start broad (what is the artists' process? is this the printed version? Why is there white-out on the page? Etc.) and what the dealer/artist tells you will be big first steps in your OA education. Ask collectors on here, but also PM collectors on CAF. Also be prepared to abandon some of the comic way of thinking if you go into older pieces (eg water damage may not be that big of a deal, signatures may be bad) and never, ever bring up the notion of slabbing art

[Terry Doyle]

Most dealers you'll see on CAF are fine to buy from.

 

Most notable exception is Steve Donnelly who prices his stuff excessively. Unless you have masochistic tendencies, I'd give him a miss . . .

[Tuff Ghost]

Here is a thread as well with a large list of art dealers listed at the top.

 

http://11oclockcomics.com/forum/index.php?p=/discussion/3/sites-for-buying-original-art

[oakman29]

I just kind of dip my toes in the pool,and really only buy art from artists that I truly admire.

[Eric Seffinga]

Read this thread.

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=5224944&gonew=1#UNREAD

So much good advice in it. Like a primer for beginers with all kinds of worthy opinions and suggestions. It is long, but should be required reading. We all started somewhere with minimal knowledge, and the only way forward is to be informed. I wish such a thread (or the internet) existed when I had started. could have saved me many missteps.

[AKA Rick]

Think before you purchase, as you never either want buyer's remorse based on impulse, especially if you're on a fixed budget and then something you like better comes to market which at that point you can't afford.

 

Never fall in love with a piece to complete obsession, since you will know you can't own everything you see that you want, even really really really want.

 

Save up a fund to go towards your hobby, as opposed to spending next month's rent money. Pieces of various price ranges will come to the marketplace without any predictability, so be prepared financially. Liquidate items (such as let's say you were getting out of the CGC graded comics hobby) to finance your new hobby if you're not looking at wanting to dip into savings.

 

If you love a character, such as Superman, but can't afford the artwork, a lot of times, going to conventions and in-store signings gives you access to artists who will draw you free sketches and for hire (paid) commissions. You'll find some up and coming artists as well as seasoned veterans. If at all possible don't do cash in advance deals for commissions without checking on their (the artist) reputation to complete the job, you never want to be in a position where you're chasing, nearly begging, for getting the piece you paid for and waiting months if not years to get it with frustrating communication not replied to and hearing excuses. The boards here are good for feedback on which artists turn work around fast and reliable and who seems to be neglectful and flaky.

 

For published artwork, on eBay... if it's too good to be true... it's probably too good to be true... and at that point in regards to fraud, "it's better to pass than fail" - - the marketplace is smart enough to identify true opportunity, so if you see a Joe Shuster "original Superman sketch" or a Bob Kane "original Batman sketch" and there's no action on it and/or at a low price, way below market value, the odds are it's going to be a fake.

 

For published artwork online through other sources like blogs, boards, eClassifieds, etc. "let the buyer beware" and do your homework. Quite honestly, these CGC boards are amongst the most legit and have members with camaraderie who will provide you with the best and most honest feedback. Of course take everything with a grain of salt including folks selling here themselves.

 

For published artwork dealers and artists reps, know that there's at least a dozen really good ones. Again, the folks here will vouch for many and almost any, and those who are reliable as well as those who are maybe price gaugers. Some dealers set prices knowing a price negotiation is on the horizon. Other dealers have a retail price without exception unless they say so, with very strict curbside manners.

 

Published artwork is tricky, the most recognized is the Pencil and/or the Pencil & Inked. As a collector starting up, you may see things like "Prelims", "Color Guides", "Prodution Piece" (usually a transparency or some print out), "Digital Prints 1 of 1 Originals", "Inked Over Bluelined Pencils", "Unpublished" (which generally means it's then not published and can just be a glorified commission) and other variations - - I'd generally say stay away from those until you truly know what you're buying.

 

And an important aspect that's so often neglected, even by reps and dealers is... take care of your artwork. Where condition isn't as key as it is with comic books since artwork is one of a kind and more resilient (not as condition sensitive to damage by handing) , it still is a crucial consideration aesthetically. If you're going to frame and display your artwork know that sunlight does fade, so invest in good framing and put the pieces in areas using common sense. If you're not going to display your artwork, then invest the $0.25 into the 3 mil poly bags (and seal the top with tape), it'll keep 'em somewhat safe from moisture, dirt, silverfish, bending/folding/creasing/ripping, n' other potential damages. Even if you use a art portfolio, still bag your art, as there's an opening at the top or side of the portfolio that is so easy for moisture (incl. water spills, water leak floods, etc) as well as silverfish to get into, so bagging adds another barrier/layer of protection. You can buy 100 bags at the "Bags Unlimited" website, and generally go a tad bigger than 11" x 17" to accommodate wider dimension pages (DC and Dark Horse published work is often a tad oversized). If you're an investor and/or condition freak, then you can buy Mylars for about $3 each and then put the art in a mylar, then bag the mylar, then put the art in a rigid portfolio. I am, by the way a condition freak and feel it's worth the investment (into proper supplies) for most artwork to keep 'em as best condition possible.

 

As for the art itself... buy what you like to enjoy, not what you think is or will be valuable.

 

[Comix4Sale]

Great advice above. I'm only in my first year of OA collecting and feel I've got a solid plan.

 

budget, Budget, BUDGET! I plan each auction days in advance when I have a clear head so I don't get caught up in a bidding war. I identify each piece that I am interest in and then set my max price. I also prioritize pieces and see which ends first during the auction. That helps me eliminate some pages since I'm more interested in a later one. I've bid on many pieces that I ultimately didn't win. Some were pages that I would love to have but someone wanted more (or had deeper pockets). There is always another day and another page. If your "Grail" page comes up, consider the premium that you are willing to pay to get it.

 

I don't buy as an investment. There are others way more savvy than me bidding and they have the resources to sell retail when they want to move it. Every page that I have purchased is a candidate to be framed in my Man Cave. Budget for frames also if you are going to hang them.

 

There are a lot of Dealers and Artist reps that have some great inventory but I found a few pages a conventions that I purchased directly from the artist. Taking a picture with them and the art adds sentimentality to the purchase.

 

Good luck and start a Comic Art Fans page and let us know what you pick up.

 

James

 

[Khazano]

That page in particular is being sold by Pat art agent. It's authentic. Which leads me to a good piece of advice. Find out which artist is repped by whom and whom handles their own art sales.

[mrpunch0]

Most important thing (ever) for newbies: Make one good already-experienced friend in the hobby, that's not trying to sell to you. Someone you can casually apprentice with. This person will steer you away from obvious badness even if he or she doesn't know specifics of what you're into. If they're local, go to cons with them and run through dealer stock, getting a feel for things, fair prices, etc. If nobody local, you can still be remote and send links, asking for opinions on authenticity but also price, scarcity, and other things.

 

You can do all that here too, but it might be bothersome if you start a new thread every time you see something that's a "possible". And you'll be tipping off your bidding and buying competitors as to what you're looking at. A trusted personal friend in the hobby, that has no monetary interest in your activities, is worth more than anything else. And you'll naturally return the favor over time by doing the same with somebody else and keeping your eyes peeled for the art you find that your mentor may have missed. OA Big Brother program right there!

 

This is excellent advice.

And exactly what I did … even though I didn't realize it until right now.