Where in the world was the Quality Control at CGC??? 43 43

[MetalPSI]

On 6/18/2022 at 8:20 AM, jcjames said:

 

Yup my thoughts exactly 

I knew it was a lot, but now we know why CGC operates the way it does

It literally doesn't need to give

[jcjames]

On 6/18/2022 at 8:22 AM, The Meta said:

Yup my thoughts exactly 

I knew it was a lot, but now we know why CGC operates the way it does

It literally doesn't need to give

It also puts QC errors into a context of production volume. 

*IF* they're running 7 days/week, that's around 4,300-5,700 slabs per day, every day. 

 

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 6/18/2022 at 10:41 AM, jcjames said:

It also puts QC errors into a context of production volume. 

*IF* they're running 7 days/week, that's around 4,300-5,700 slabs per day, every day. 

 

Probably more.

Considering how many use the 25 books per submission even if only an average 15,000 of those submissions are 25 books that is still 350,000 books and at 7 days a week that still comes up to 50,000 per day. 

Edited June 18, 2022 by onlyweaknesskryptonite

[jcjames]

On 6/18/2022 at 9:50 AM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

Probably more.

Considering how many use the 25 books per submission even if only an average 15,000 of those submissions are 25 books that is still 350,000 books and at 7 days a week that still comes up to 50,000 per day. 

I was assuming that "30-40,000 submissions a week" were 30-40K individual books submitted per week, not 30-40K submission forms they got per week. 

At your estimate of counting forms as submissions, that'd be 18 million books/year.

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 6/18/2022 at 11:59 AM, jcjames said:

I was assuming that "30-40,000 submissions a week" were 30-40K individual books submitted per week, not 30-40K submission forms they got per week. 

At your estimate of counting forms as submissions, that'd be 18 million books/year.

No wonder they are having so much trouble.  

 

[ramrodcar]

On 6/18/2022 at 7:54 AM, The Meta said:

We generally receive about 30-40 thousand submissions a week and depending on how many of those are in the same tier or have the same services as your invoice could factor into a longer turnaround time. 

This has to be a logistical nightmare, but would easily explain the inconsistency with tier FIFO

Let's do some speculative math

Assumptions:

• 30,000 books come in a week, let's say conservatively 5,000/week are combination of standard, express, and walkthrough and ignore those, so 25,000 modern and economy come in every week +/-
• Modern - let's say 80% of the 25,000/week are modern = 20,000/week, of the 20,000 let's say 75% of these are slow modern = 15,000/week
• Economy - let's say 20% of the 25,000/week are economy = 5,000/week, of the 5,000 let's say 75% of these are slow economy = 3,750/week

Slow modern currently has an 16 week stated turnaround (81 days), this means there may be a total of 240,000 slow modern books waiting to be graded, e.g. 1,067 long boxes (225/per assuming submissions are intermixed and boxes are packed TIGHT, probably not)

Slow economy currently has a 45 week stated turn around (227 days), this means there may be a total of 168,750 slow economy books waiting to be graded, e.g. 750 long boxes (225/per assuming submissions are intermixed and boxes are packed TIGHT, probably not)

 

[zzutak]

On 6/16/2022 at 9:19 AM, Jennifer F. said:

We generally receive about 30-40 thousand submissions a week

I suspect @Jennifer F. is actually referring to individual comic books.  My own calculations indicate that, during the past 14 months, CGC has certified/encapsulated an average of 28~30,000 comic books each week (with post-1990 Moderns representing about 67% of this number).  I expect their current rate of flow is greater than this 14-month average.  This is no garage-type operation! 

Edited June 18, 2022 by zzutak

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 6/18/2022 at 11:41 AM, jcjames said:

It also puts QC errors into a context of production volume. 

*IF* they're running 7 days/week, that's around 4,300-5,700 slabs per day, every day. 

 

That’s a lot of landfill 

[MetalPSI]

On 6/18/2022 at 10:54 AM, THE_BEYONDER said:

That’s a lot of landfill 

Noticed the world is having logistical problems, but no slab shortage 

[Iconic1s]

On 6/18/2022 at 12:54 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

That’s a lot of landfill 

Kids these days are pretty rotten.  I say we burn this mo fo down and leave them with just shell of what the Earth once was… bring on the submissions of Son of Kal El, J Scott Campbell SS, and QC issues!!

Fill those landfills Baby!!!!

 

[jcjames]

On 6/18/2022 at 10:54 AM, THE_BEYONDER said:

That’s a lot of landfill 

Everybody needs to stop slabbing books to save the planet! 

[AceHazard]

Is it possible to have CGC replace a case that has scuffs on the inside if I wasn’t the person to make the submission?  I won a graded book on whatnot but there appears to be marks on the inside of the plastic slab. Both front and back. Will CGC accept this for a free replacement case if I contact them or am I stuck with the book as is since I didn’t make the original submission?

[ramrodcar]

On 6/18/2022 at 8:12 PM, AceHazard said:

Is it possible to have CGC replace a case that has scuffs on the inside if I wasn’t the person to make the submission?  I won a graded book on whatnot but there appears to be marks on the inside of the plastic slab. Both front and back. Will CGC accept this for a free replacement case if I contact them or am I stuck with the book as is since I didn’t make the original submission?

pretty sure you'll have to pay for reholder if you're not the original submitter AND it's not within a short period of time after receipt from CGC (I believe it's two weeks).

[Robert_L]

On 6/18/2022 at 9:12 PM, AceHazard said:

Is it possible to have CGC replace a case that has scuffs on the inside if I wasn’t the person to make the submission?  I won a graded book on whatnot but there appears to be marks on the inside of the plastic slab. Both front and back. Will CGC accept this for a free replacement case if I contact them or am I stuck with the book as is since I didn’t make the original submission?

It never hurts to ask, but you’ll probably have to pay for the reholder. 

[AceHazard]

I figured I’d be responsible for a reholder. It’s not too bad on the front so I think I can live with it. 

[faster friends]

Did anyone ever determine what the QC Statistical Sampling rate is?

[zzutak]

Statistical Sampling Rate?  Not even close. 

In my opinion, CGC's use of the term "Quality Control" is essentially marketing fluff.  I don't believe CGC has ever had any type of formal QC program in place.  Why?  Because I'd be shocked if CGC had a formal Quality Management System (QMS).  The "fly by the seat of your pants" approach worked well in the early days of CGC, when the certification/encapsulation rate was relatively low and the staff was small.  But things have changed, and someone at either Blackstone or Certified Collectibles Group (CCG) finally decided that a more rigorous approach to Quality Management, Quality Assurance, and Quality Control is required.  I believe this is why Michael Saucerman was hired by CCG (not CGC).

In a rigorous system, audits (formal data-gathering examinations/inspections of a product, process, or system) are conducted to ensure compliance with clearly defined requirements or standards.  Audits allow an organization to determine whether it's meeting a clearly defined Acceptable Quality Level (AQL).  I would expect CGC (or some third party) to eventually conduct a rigorous audit to determine the encapsulated book defect rate.  However, you cannot count defects until you formally define what constitutes a defect.  For example, does an encapsulated book with a cracked/puddled slab, an upside-down book, an incorrect label, and incorrect data on that label count as four defects or just one?  I suspect these are some of the things Mr. Saucerman is currently attempting to establish (with Mike's help and ours).

Keep posting examples of defective product.  But be patient -- fundamental changes like this take time.  As always, I'm confident Mike (or someone else from CGC or CCG) will correct me if anything I've said above is incorrect. 

[CGC Mike]

On 6/20/2022 at 6:14 AM, zzutak said:

Keep posting examples of defective product. 

+1  I go through this thread and other threads each week that involve QC issues, and send Mike an e-mail.  Last week was a busy week so, he got 2.  There's about 20 or so different QC issues that we are working on fixing.  Mike is great to work with.  I sometimes get replies from him on weekends, and at 7:00 in the morning.  We will get these things fixed.  Customers should see positive results with some issues very soon like upside down books, hair in case, scratches, issue number not matching label, labels being switched on books from the same submission, ect...  Other issues like finger bends, rippling due to not enough room and the inner well and is pushing on the book, puddling, newton rings and a few others might take longer to fix.  You can help with bringing up these examples.  Pictures are highly encouraged.  

[Cat]

This is actually sounding really promising. 

[I like pie]

This was submitted via walkthrough SS. Double signed and submitted direct from Coffin Comics. The proper paperwork was included with the order.

CGC is going to fix it with a yellow label and it's en route now but I hope it's expedited or my walk thru fee is compensated