The Official Saga #1 RRP Appreciation Thread 0

[HarveySwick]

So...it's a Third Print AND a #1 RRP. 

Is it fair to simply say that it is the most desirable and collectible issue of the best Image title not named The Walking Dead and will retain it's value and desirability for a long, long time more so than the run of the mill First Print? 

And I've said it before and I'll say it again - I will happily trade a guaranteed First Print Saga #1 for any of these crummy RRP/"Third Prints". 

[ebtorres]

14 hours ago, HarveySwick said:

So...it's a Third Print AND a #1 RRP. 

Is it fair to simply say that it is the most desirable and collectible issue of the best Image title not named The Walking Dead and will retain it's value and desirability for a long, long time more so than the run of the mill First Print? 

And I've said it before and I'll say it again - I will happily trade a guaranteed First Print Saga #1 for any of these crummy RRP/"Third Prints". 

 

[SquareChaos]

17 hours ago, HarveySwick said:

So...it's a Third Print AND a #1 RRP. 

Is it fair to simply say that it is the most desirable and collectible issue of the best Image title not named The Walking Dead and will retain it's value and desirability for a long, long time more so than the run of the mill First Print? 

And I've said it before and I'll say it again - I will happily trade a guaranteed First Print Saga #1 for any of these crummy RRP/"Third Prints". 

The disconnect here is completely summed up in the final line of your post. People who think it is a 3rd print and hold to the way that comics were collected in times past seem to find issue with a reprint outclassing the clear first print. Your statement works from a pure economics perspective, the market has spoken for now, the current price is hard to dispute. But what you're saying doesn't address the crux of this issue except to use it as validation.

I think the main players in the argument finally got tired of repeating the same points at each other though, so maybe it is a good summation of the only point that matters while discussing the book as a very recent modern. Lets all meet back here in 2030.

Edited September 29, 2017 by SquareChaos
Clarity

[valiantman]

To my knowledge, there are not many (any?) examples where a later printing is worth more COLLECTIVELY than a first printing.

If a first printing has 10,000 copies and they sell for $10 each, that's $100,000 in first printing value.

If there's a third print / RRP / whatever that has 200 copies that sell for $100 each, that's $20,000 in later printing value.  One-fifth of the first printing value.

YES, a SINGLE ISSUE of a reprint can be worth more than a SINGLE ISSUE of a first printing, but that's ONLY because of differences in print runs.

Show me an example where ALL COPIES of a later printing are worth more than ALL COPIES of a first printing... and the market will have actually changed from the way it used to be.

Marvel could create a limited reprint of Amazing Spider-man #1 with 5 copies in 2017 that would sell for more than Amazing Spider-Man #1 (1963).  That wouldn't make the later printing "better".

[SquareChaos]

2 minutes ago, valiantman said:

To my knowledge, there are not many (any?) examples where a later printing is worth more COLLECTIVELY than a first printing.

If a first printing has 10,000 copies and they sell for $10 each, that's $100,000 in first printing value.

If there's a third print / RRP / whatever that has 200 copies that sell for $100 each, that's $20,000 in later printing value.  One-fifth of the first printing value.

YES, a SINGLE ISSUE of a reprint can be worth more than a SINGLE ISSUE of a first printing, but that's ONLY because of differences in print runs.

Show me an example where ALL COPIES of a later printing are worth more than ALL COPIES of a first printing... and the market will have actually changed from the way it used to be.

Marvel could create a limited reprint of Amazing Spider-man #1 with 5 copies in 2017 that would sell for more than Amazing Spider-Man #1 (1963).  That wouldn't make the later printing "better".

The retail price of a given issue or the collective total for a given printing doesn't seem to be a point anyone else has brought up. I'm not certain I understand what you're trying to say.

[valiantman]

5 minutes ago, SquareChaos said:

The retail price of a given issue or the collective total for a given printing doesn't seem to be a point anyone else has brought up. I'm not certain I understand what you're trying to say.

People are "disappointed" that a third printing is selling for more than a first printing.  Other people are "disappointed" that a third printing they bought was a first printing RRP variant when they bought it.  Neither group will ever be satisfied.

Yes, third printings can sell for more than first printings when there are very few of them.

Yes, first printing RRP variants can turn out to be third printing variants not first printings.

Nothing has actually changed in terms of "the way that comics were collected in times past" (your words) because there's still not a single case where a publisher put out a product as first print and the collectors market shunned the first printing (as a whole) because they preferred a later printing (as a whole).

[SquareChaos]

Just now, valiantman said:

People are "disappointed" that a third printing is selling for more than a first printing.  Other people are "disappointed" that a third printing they bought was a first printing RRP variant when they bought it.  Neither group will ever be satisfied.

Yes, third printings can sell for more than first printings when there are very few of them.

Yes, first printing RRP variants can turn out to be third printing variants not first printings.

Nothing has actually changed in terms of "the way that comics were collected in times past" (your words) because there's still not a single case where a publisher put out a product as first print and the collectors market shunned the first printing (as a whole) because they preferred a later printing (as a whole).

I see.

 

You're wrong though. When I first started reading comics, and collecting, and for a long time in to that, hardly anyone cared about second, third, fourth prints. Completionist collectors would still purchase them and but them away in their longbox, but they were relatively worthless. They were just a way for people that had missed out the first time around to have a chance to read the story. They were never more than that. This fixation on print run and perceived rarity is a relatively recent change.

[valiantman]

1 minute ago, SquareChaos said:

I see.

 

You're wrong though. When I first started reading comics, and collecting, and for a long time in to that, hardly anyone cared about second, third, fourth prints. Completionist collectors would still purchase them and but them away in their longbox, but they were relatively worthless. They were just a way for people that had missed out the first time around to have a chance to read the story. They were never more than that. This fixation on print run and perceived rarity is a relatively recent change.

Right, the collective value of fourth printings has gone from maybe 2% of the value of the first printings to maybe 20% of the value of the first printings... but they still aren't "more" than first printings.  Even if a third printing is $1,000 and a first printing is $100... add them up and the later printings don't beat first.

[SquareChaos]

Just now, valiantman said:

Right, the collective value of fourth printings has gone from maybe 2% of the value of the first printings to maybe 20% of the value of the first printings... but they still aren't "more" than first printings.  Even if a third printing is $1,000 and a first printing is $100... add them up and the later printings don't beat first.

This pooled worth theory seems to rest heavily on rarity = value.

[valiantman]

Just now, SquareChaos said:

This pooled worth theory seems to rest heavily on rarity = value.

No, the "pooled worth theory" is showing that even though times have changed for individual books, nothing has changed in terms of first printings being preferred... by the (whole) market.

We've seen this since at least 1997 because Spawn #1 Black & White (1997) reprint has always sold for many multiples of Spawn #1 (1992).  That was 20 years ago.  But the total value of Spawn #1 (1992) still blows away the total value of Spawn #1 B&W reprint (1997).

[valiantman]

The total value of Spawn #1 (1992) also blows away the total value of Malibu Sun #13 or Rust #1 or any other "higher valued" individual book.  The individual books are only "higher priced" because there are fewer of them, not because they are the preferred book for a character's first appearance or because the market (as a whole) prefers some preview or reprint.

The most money you can spend on a single book might always be a reprint or some obscure preview or some other "not the first printing", but the money that the market (as a whole) has spent is always highest for first printings.

[SquareChaos]

First off, I'm not sure that what you're saying should be taken as some sort of economic law of total comic book worth... but I'm not going to try to refute it either, because it just doesn't seem to have much to do with the conversation at hand.

 

You're talking about the overall worth of a given book in the total market if you go to the trouble of attempting to count, grade, and price them all while everyone else is speaking about the singular desirability of a given version of a comic. The desirability, mixed with the rarity and condition, presumably drives the single copy price. Most of what you're saying hinges on later printings being smaller than earlier ones... which is almost always a truism.

[valiantman]

Right, but we see over, and over, and over again where people are complaining that a third printing RRP is selling for more than a first printing.  We see complaining that a fourth printing is selling for more than a first printing.  A second printing is selling for more than a first... etc., and then those complaints become some kind of declaration that "The market has spoken! These third prints are better than first prints!"  But in every single case, there is a tiny print run for the later printing, so in every single case where someone is claiming that a reprint or a preview or some other weird thing is "better than the first print" it has nothing to do with which is actually the better/preferred/superior book... and everything to do with print run. 

[CBT]

i see the fake news continues.

Its not now, nor has it ever been "A" third print.

There is only one third print, which is THE third print, and there is only one RRP.

People keep talking like their opinions matter...  cant change reality, sorry.

[Jaydogrules]

https://summits.diamondcomics.com/Home/1/1/54/787?articleID=118463

Image Comics: Saga #1 Third Printing (Special Retailer Cover)

-J.

Edited September 29, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[Broke as a Joke]

I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say that Jaydog doesn't own one of these.  Just a guess...

[Jaydogrules]

Just now, Broke as a Joke said:

I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say that Jaydog doesn't own one of these.  Just a guess...

Keep guessing.   

-J.

[HarveySwick]

Can we just discuss what a subsequent Printing IS?

Isnt the purpose of a subsequent Printing to try to meet demand with supply really to encourage reading of the book? Companies don't want to print too many first prints to prevent supply from seriously outweighing demand and killing value (why NM98 will always have somewhat of a ceiling in value - there's just too many copies). So a publisher makes x amount of copies. Then the book does really well so to encourage continued readership, the company releases a second printing so that the people who missed out on the first print can pick up a second print and read the book.

The RRP on the other hand is manufactured for the sole purpose of collectibility. To create a rare variant of an issue. So, the RRP of Issue #1 IS the RRP of Issue #1. Jaydogrules, I get it that you're sticking with that advertisement of the book to be given out at the Diamond Summit that says "Third Printing", but I don't think it really is a "Third Printing" based really on the purpose of its creation and distribution. 

I think it's designation and value as "RRP of Issue #1" far outweighs it's release date which you're trying to use as evidence of Printing (yes, along with your link). But you can continue to argue your opinion that it's a Third Printing. Heck, shout it from Hulk #180 Mountain. I still can't figure out how ASM #252 isn't the first appearance of Venom since "Venom" really just = this particular symbiote + host as we've seen with different variations but the market deems ASM #300 as the First Appearance. Oh well. I'm wrong. But just because YOU feel that it's a "Third Printing", I don't think the market agrees with you. 

[ygogolak]

17 hours ago, valiantman said:

To my knowledge, there are not many (any?) examples where a later printing is worth more COLLECTIVELY than a first printing.

If a first printing has 10,000 copies and they sell for $10 each, that's $100,000 in first printing value.

If there's a third print / RRP / whatever that has 200 copies that sell for $100 each, that's $20,000 in later printing value.  One-fifth of the first printing value.

YES, a SINGLE ISSUE of a reprint can be worth more than a SINGLE ISSUE of a first printing, but that's ONLY because of differences in print runs.

Show me an example where ALL COPIES of a later printing are worth more than ALL COPIES of a first printing... and the market will have actually changed from the way it used to be.

Marvel could create a limited reprint of Amazing Spider-man #1 with 5 copies in 2017 that would sell for more than Amazing Spider-Man #1 (1963).  That wouldn't make the later printing "better".

Only keys, like Saga 1.

Man of Steel 17 & 18

Spawn 1 B&W

etc...

[bababooey]

11 minutes ago, ygogolak said:

17 hours ago, valiantman said:

To my knowledge, there are not many (any?) examples where a later printing is worth more COLLECTIVELY than a first printing.

If a first printing has 10,000 copies and they sell for $10 each, that's $100,000 in first printing value.

If there's a third print / RRP / whatever that has 200 copies that sell for $100 each, that's $20,000 in later printing value.  One-fifth of the first printing value.

YES, a SINGLE ISSUE of a reprint can be worth more than a SINGLE ISSUE of a first printing, but that's ONLY because of differences in print runs.

Show me an example where ALL COPIES of a later printing are worth more than ALL COPIES of a first printing... and the market will have actually changed from the way it used to be.

Marvel could create a limited reprint of Amazing Spider-man #1 with 5 copies in 2017 that would sell for more than Amazing Spider-Man #1 (1963).  That wouldn't make the later printing "better".

Only keys, like Saga 1.

Man of Steel 17 & 18

Spawn 1 B&W

etc...