some observations re; ComicCollectors.net

[Dr_Neff]

I just wanted to say that I love Marnin Rosenberg! Yes he has been vocal, and and that is what we need in the industry to make sure we don't become complacent in these interesting times.

 

I would suggest that Mr. Rosenberg, like many persons submitting to CGC, probably assigned his gems a grade of his own before sending them to be encapsulated, then compared the results to his own grades and got the graders' notes to split the fine hairs.

 

I say the west coast guys don't even have to assign grades, just put a price on the items you'd like to sell. They'll sell graded or not, just be aware of page counts and staple pulls.

 

The midwest dudes (we don't say middle east these days) grade their comics and put a higher price on them to allow inflation to catch up, as they have usually most of the copies of any certain book at any time....

 

AND the east coast players don't mess around they get their books graded by CGC and OOPS they are all sold!

 

 

So the moral of the story is buy from who you want when you want we are all selling comics and we can say whatever we want to say but please try to remember what your goals are and keep your behaviors in line with what you want - make sure the juice is worth the squeeze (yeah We watch movies with our boys!)

[tth2]

I would suggest that Mr. Rosenberg, like many persons submitting to CGC, probably assigned his gems a grade of his own before sending them to be encapsulated, then compared the results to his own grades and got the graders' notes to split the fine hairs.

 

But Marnin despises CGC. Why would he submit books to CGC? Perhaps they're consigned books, you say. Then how would he have graded them, except through the slab? Perhaps he allows only books that he originally sold raw to be consigned on his site, you say. If so, why would Marnin allow consigned CGC books to be sold on his site in the first place? After all, he despises CGC.

[Dr_Neff]

I would have no better way of knowing Mr. Rosenberg's motivations than you my friend!

I can't believe that little quote was all you commented on!

 

How is the comic market over there? Does everyone just buy from HCA online?

[tth2]

I think I AM the comic market over here, and I'm doing just fine!

 

Online buying is the main avenue of purchasing, replacing the mail order catalogues of yesteryear. What is HCA?

[Dr_Neff]

Heritage Comics Auctions

 

so is there more interest in toys, manganime, or US comics?

[sborock]

"I just wanted to say that I love Marnin Rosenberg! Yes he has been vocal, and and that is what we need in the industry to make sure we don't become complacent in these interesting times."

 

Might be one of the dumbest things you have ever said.

 

When someone tells outright lies, that helps the hobby!? When someone spews hate filled rhetoric, that is good for the hobby!?

 

I want some of what you are smoking

[burntboy]

Almost everyone doing the Highest Graded Copy (though Marnin does it different). The real problem I have, is it is only at the TIME OF LISTING. So if five other copies get graded higher later on, it's still going to say, Highest Graded Copy.

 

i hear ya and understand where you're coming from.

 

Personally, i have no problem with an add screaming "Highest Graded Copy", if it's been graded by a third party. BUT, to assign your own grade (on your own "obsolete" grading scale), and then proclaim that your's is the best seems a stretch.

 

hell, i could drag out some of my MIS', grade them myself, and then proclaim them to be the best copies. but better than what??? in the instance where there are no certified copies, how do i know what's out there?? so they're the best graded copies because i say so?? because i haven't personally seen better copies?? what??

[burntboy]

oh well, looks like this thread has run it's course early. thought there'd be more comments on the "Highest Graded Copy" aspect of the thread.

 

it would be very interesting for example, if my former FF #11 were to show up on this site with a CC.net grade of 9.5 - "HIGHEST GRADED COPY" and a sale price of $14K -$15K................

 

Fat chance. I nearly myself when you got $10K for it.

 

Is the lawyer just a tad jealous and bitter?

 

No, but you sound a tad bitter. What's the problem, Pete?

 

I'm thrilled that Harry got $10K for it. He deserved it for keeping the book in such nice shape for all those years. But I don't think for a second that Marnin would get $14K for it just by calling it a 9.5.

 

of course since this is only hypothetical, i'm not saying they'd GET $14K, but i could see it happening as described and them ASKING for $14K.........

[Dr_Neff]

"I just wanted to say that I love Marnin Rosenberg! Yes he has been vocal, and and that is what we need in the industry to make sure we don't become complacent in these interesting times."

 

Might be one of the dumbest things you have ever said.

 

When someone tells outright lies, that helps the hobby!? When someone spews hate filled rhetoric, that is good for the hobby!?

 

I want some of what you are smoking

 

 

 

 

You got me there Boss!

 

When people tell lies, it is bad, but it does generate the collecting community into reacting, and that reaction builds trust among the rest of us, when w e ahve sorted out the who's who of it all.

 

I would share but I smoked it all with Tommy Chong already!

 

Dr. Neff and Tommy photo

 

 

And I don't really love Marnin, it was not just a lie, it was a thank (him) for linking to our website and donating to the Second Annual DAM60 CGC Forum Philanthropy drive... AND CGC DESERVES THE BIGGEST BIG WET SLOPPY KISS TOO!! THANK YOU UNCLE STEVE AND THE REST OF THE CGC GANG AS WELL AS THE FORUMITES!!

[blazingbob]

Do you have the original posts that the "taken to task statements" were made on. It sort of makes this thread a little hard to follow since it appears that it looks like a "Let's Bash Marnin's company thread".

[burntboy]

Do you have the original posts that the "taken to task statements" were made on. It sort of makes this thread a little hard to follow since it appears that it looks like a "Let's Bash Marnin's company thread".

 

Bob; in another thread, i made the mistaken observation that CC.net always graded their books the same or HIGHER than the given CGC grades.

 

both Mushroom and Esquire correctly pointed out that i was wrong and found a few instances to back up their comments in CC.net's GA and Spidey auctions.

 

so i started this thread to clarify the degree to which they decide CGC has either UNDER or OVER graded the books in their possession that are up for sale.

 

i'm just a hobbyist who has a hard time buying into ANYONE's perception that once you've got the book, in 9 of 10 times where you don't agree with the CGC grade, you conveniently decide that the book has been undergraded. that's my opinion and i'm sticking to it.

 

i then caught onto the second issue where they "throw out" the CGC grade and call their MIS # 1 the Highest graded copy at a CC.net grade of 9.2 while it's sitting in a CGC slab with an 8.5 on it AND there's another graded 9.0 out there. OR , where they call a book the Highest graded copy where none has ever been slabbed to date.

 

if i'd have pitched my FF # 11 as a personally graded 9.5 Highest graded copy, i would have been perceived as some sort of fool.............IMHO.

[Ze-man]

Do you have the original posts that the "taken to task statements" were made on. It sort of makes this thread a little hard to follow since it appears that it looks like a "Let's Bash Marnin's company thread".

 

 

Cmon Bob.. really?

What is so hard to follow..

I thought Harry did a good enough job in his initial post explaning why he was motivated to dig around CC.net with a fine tooth comb. And why he posted what he felt was odd...how Marnin was listing books as highest in Census.. based upon HIS grade.. not the grade on the CGC label of the book he was selling.

I did not take it as a bashing Marnin post, more just asking if everyone else thought his selling practices were odd to anyone else.

And I think most agreed with Harry, including myself.

 

IMHO.. I think everyone knows Marnin has no problem shouting his widly unsubstantiated opinions about certain subjects, and people. So I personally do not have a problem with someone poking a stick at him.... every once in awhile.

 

Ze-

[Norrin_Radd]

Do you have the original posts that the "taken to task statements" were made on. It sort of makes this thread a little hard to follow since it appears that it looks like a "Let's Bash Marnin's company thread".

 

 

Cmon Bob.. really?

What is so hard to follow..

I thought Harry did a good enough job in his initial post explaning why he was motivated to dig around CC.net with a fine tooth comb. And why he posted what he felt was odd...how Marnin was listing books as highest in Census.. based upon HIS grade.. not the grade on the CGC label of the book he was selling.

I did not take it as a bashing Marnin post, more just asking if everyone else thought his selling practices were odd to anyone else.

And I think most agreed with Harry, including myself.

 

IMHO.. I think everyone knows Marnin has no problem shouting his widly unsubstantiated opinions about certain subjects, and people. So I personally do not have a problem with someone poking a stick at him.... every once in awhile.

 

Ze-

 

[blazingbob]

While many of you don't like the way Marnin delivers his message I have been just as vocal about their grading, the CGC pressing service, Heritage Comics, other dealers etc. Some posters think that just because you prod or dismiss something said that will make the person making the statement identify their sources. Sure, lets take a few more bullets for the "hobby". It has been shown over and over again that regardless of who you warn collectors about they would buy from Satan if he had the books at the price and grades they wanted. And why is that, because "It won't happen to me" or "Hehehe, I'm going to make a lot of money".

 

Marnin's has as much a right to disagree with CGC grading or their business practices as I do. Remember, NONE of us have certificates from Grading school - Mark Haspel, Paul Litch or Steve Borock included. Except for Steve Borock how long have the other two been grading comics? And quite frankly none of them can claim to be the best graders day after day regardless of how many books they grade. We ALL make mistakes in grading.

 

The thread that you cannot claim the highest grade copy of a book just because CGC doesn't grade it is ridiculous. How scary to think that the "grading company" has the last say in grading, declaring what's the best and their your grading skills mean nothing. Marnin is matching his grading skills with CGC's, it's his word versus theirs. And there is nothing wrong with him doing that.

[Foolkiller]

bob:

 

wish I had more time to respond, because I disagree with your notion that anybody can claim the "highest graded copy" and that it's ok. Hopefully I'll get a chance later.

 

as for buying books from satan, there are plenty of dealers I won't deal with simply because I don't like them or the way they conduct business.

[namisgr]

wish I had more time to respond, because I disagree with your notion that anybody can claim the "highest graded copy" and that it's ok.

 

One of Marnin's major points with which I agree is that he isn't just "anybody" when it comes to grading comics. For quite awhile, Marnin was THE dealer in ultra high grade Silver and Atom age material. He's been grading and selling this material for longer than nearly all of us forumites, as well as the professional graders at CGC. While there are plenty of dealers with reputations as loose graders, Marnin is rarely lumped with them.

 

If a comic buyer prefers to purchase books graded by CGC and using their standards, and another has experience dealing with Marnin, and has a comfort level with this grading standards, then both buyers can be satisfied. There are two other things I will say on Marnin's behalf. One is that, more than any dealer with whom I've dealt, he will take the time and effort to describe for you in exquisite detail the flaws, strengths, and eye appeal of a book that interests you. The second is that he will accept returns without quarrel, even on CGC graded books, a practice that I wish far more dealers would be willing to adopt.

[DiceX]

**Cue Chris Rock**

I take care of *my* kids... You're SUPPOSED to take care of your kids!

I ain't never been in prison... You're not SUPPOSED to go to prison!

[nearmint]

The thread that you cannot claim the highest grade copy of a book just because CGC doesn't grade it is ridiculous. How scary to think that the "grading company" has the last say in grading, declaring what's the best and their your grading skills mean nothing. Marnin is matching his grading skills with CGC's, it's his word versus theirs. And there is nothing wrong with him doing that.

 

I disagree. You have to draw a line between CGC slabbed books and raw books. With slabbed books, there's a census to back up the claim. With raw books, there is'nt. When I say I have the "highest GRADED copy" of Action #43, I'm not saying I have the "highest GRADE copy". In this context, I define the word "graded" as graded by CGC. I can not claim it's the "highest grade copy" because the Church, O'Reilly, or Larson copy might still be raw, and might be nicer copies.

 

Sure, Marnin can say what he wants, but he has absolutely no data to back it up.

 

Finally, CGC does not, as you say, "declare what's the best". They simply declare what's best from the copies they've graded. Two very different things.

[sterlingcomics]

...as for buying books from satan...

 

 

 

COULD IT BE......SATAN?!?

 

--tongue in cheek, Bob

[esquirecomics]

The second is that he will accept returns without quarrel, even on CGC graded books, a practice that I wish far more dealers would be willing to adopt.

 

I had initially adopted the practice of not permitting returns on CGC books based on the premise that the buyer knows what to accept. I have since rethought that practice, in part due to Marnin's willingness to do so and based on some disappointments I have experienced with CGC purchases where the book simply did not have the eye appeal I expected given the stated grade.

 

Therefore, Esquirecomics.com will now accept CGC returns.

 

I see no reason why any dealer should not allow a return on a CGC book so long as the book is returned in the condition as sent and the buyer assumes the return postage. It is simply a good business practice to keep customers' satisfied.

 

Mark S. Zaid

 

P.S. Sorry for being off the threads for the last couple of weeks. Went cruising in the Caribbean.