Should CGC consider eye appeal more strongly in their grading ?

[Bomber-Bob]

Tanning ? A book has NO business in a slab with "White Pages" if there is ANY tanning to the interior covers..... yet, many that I've deslabbed as white DO have covers that aren't.

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

Okay, here is a point, well taken BTW, that I would be in the camp to say leave the White Page designation regardless of the cover. However, I hope CGC is already downgrading for the tanning. Personally, if I see tanning, no matter what the Page Quality, I pass.

[Jaylam]

Regardless of what GPA is reporting for a book in a certain grade, if I think a book has qualities that I believe makes it more attractive to me, be it centering, wrap, bright colors, whiteness, gloss and so on, then I'm willing to pay above GPA for it.

[Bomber-Bob]

Regardless of what GPA is reporting for a book in a certain grade, if I think a book has qualities that I believe makes it more attractive to me, be it centering, wrap, bright colors, whiteness, gloss and so on, then I'm willing to pay above GPA for it.

 

Exactly my point. You are giving a case in point here. You are willing to pay above GPA for a book

that meets your quality standards. However, by doing so, you are now creating a new GPA high. The next guy can't see a pic of the book on GPA. Along comes a fugly copy that will be quoted against the sale for your copy. We see last GPA sale referenced all the time, especially on the Boards. It's a flawed system I tell ya.

[jimjum12]

That's exactly what I'm talking about..... it almost has to be graded based on the objective and quantifiable factors. CGC does cover their position by their disclaimer on the back of the slab..... where they speak of grading as subjective in nature. In fact, if they were to clarify their standards it would just open up a can of worms. I have seemed to notice that most of the things that they "overlook" are exactly those elements where concern is most divided. They likely gave these things much consideration in their formative stages as a company. I wish I could've been a fly on the wall when CGC had those initial meetings with the Industry Leaders to iron out their parameters and to reach consensus. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[LordRahl]

Regardless of what GPA is reporting for a book in a certain grade, if I think a book has qualities that I believe makes it more attractive to me, be it centering, wrap, bright colors, whiteness, gloss and so on, then I'm willing to pay above GPA for it.

 

Exactly my point. You are giving a case in point here. You are willing to pay above GPA for a book

that meets your quality standards. However, by doing so, you are now creating a new GPA high. The next guy can't see a pic of the book on GPA. Along comes a fugly copy that will be quoted against the sale for your copy. We see last GPA sale referenced all the time, especially on the Boards. It's a flawed system I tell ya.

 

 

I don't see this as that big of a deal. For one thing it has nothing to do with CGC so I don't see it as CGC's "problem" to fix. And I don't think it's a problem anyway. So what if someone is quoting GPA. It's a guide, much as OS is/was. Doesn't mean that people will be willing to pay it. I think it's pretty much a given that a Cream paged copy will sell for less than a White paged, same grade copy. People can quote GPA all they want, if it's unreasonable for the particular copy they are selling, it still won't sell even if the last copy happened to achieve whatever price.

[Bomber-Bob]

Regardless of what GPA is reporting for a book in a certain grade, if I think a book has qualities that I believe makes it more attractive to me, be it centering, wrap, bright colors, whiteness, gloss and so on, then I'm willing to pay above GPA for it.

 

Exactly my point. You are giving a case in point here. You are willing to pay above GPA for a book

that meets your quality standards. However, by doing so, you are now creating a new GPA high. The next guy can't see a pic of the book on GPA. Along comes a fugly copy that will be quoted against the sale for your copy. We see last GPA sale referenced all the time, especially on the Boards. It's a flawed system I tell ya.

 

 

I don't see this as that big of a deal. For one thing it has nothing to do with CGC so I don't see it as CGC's "problem" to fix. And I don't think it's a problem anyway. So what if someone is quoting GPA. It's a guide, much as OS is/was. Doesn't mean that people will be willing to pay it. I think it's pretty much a given that a Cream paged copy will sell for less than a White paged, same grade copy. People can quote GPA all they want, if it's unreasonable for the particular copy they are selling, it still won't sell even if the last copy happened to achieve whatever price.

 

I introduced the relevance of GPA as a tangent to the discussion. Some were stating they did not want CGC to implement eye appeal because they could see for themselves and judge the eye appeal. This logic then made me think of GPA, no pics, and historical pricing. While I agree with your comment that quoting GPA will not sell a fugly book, it will influence and sell a desirable book. If the last sale GPA was a stunning copy it raises the bar. If the next book for sale is not stunning but desirable you will have to pay at or near the price of the stunning copy. Unfortunately nowadays, with all the pimping of books going on, one sale at a record high establishes the new baseline. Sad but I think true ?

[comicwiz]

You mean Can't Verify Anything through the slab?

 

I believe they already exist

 

I heard they put stickers on slabs from Can't Grade Comics

[LordRahl]

Regardless of what GPA is reporting for a book in a certain grade, if I think a book has qualities that I believe makes it more attractive to me, be it centering, wrap, bright colors, whiteness, gloss and so on, then I'm willing to pay above GPA for it.

 

Exactly my point. You are giving a case in point here. You are willing to pay above GPA for a book

that meets your quality standards. However, by doing so, you are now creating a new GPA high. The next guy can't see a pic of the book on GPA. Along comes a fugly copy that will be quoted against the sale for your copy. We see last GPA sale referenced all the time, especially on the Boards. It's a flawed system I tell ya.

 

 

I don't see this as that big of a deal. For one thing it has nothing to do with CGC so I don't see it as CGC's "problem" to fix. And I don't think it's a problem anyway. So what if someone is quoting GPA. It's a guide, much as OS is/was. Doesn't mean that people will be willing to pay it. I think it's pretty much a given that a Cream paged copy will sell for less than a White paged, same grade copy. People can quote GPA all they want, if it's unreasonable for the particular copy they are selling, it still won't sell even if the last copy happened to achieve whatever price.

 

I introduced the relevance of GPA as a tangent to the discussion. Some were stating they did not want CGC to implement eye appeal because they could see for themselves and judge the eye appeal. This logic then made me think of GPA, no pics, and historical pricing. While I agree with your comment that quoting GPA will not sell a fugly book, it will influence and sell a desirable book. If the last sale GPA was a stunning copy it raises the bar. If the next book for sale is not stunning but desirable you will have to pay at or near the price of the stunning copy. Unfortunately nowadays, with all the pimping of books going on, one sale at a record high establishes the new baseline. Sad but I think true ?

 

I'm sure you are right with books that don't sell very often in a particular grade. But stuff that sells regularly and has a lot of data points in GPA, I don't know. If it's a non movie hype book and all of a sudden one copy sells for some large percentage over previous GPA high, of course the next guy trying to sell one will ask for that money as well. Likely won't get it and when the book goes to auction, it will sell for "normal" GPA. There are always going to be outliers in GPA, especially for books that trade a lot. Just need to be patient.

 

For stuff that really rarely comes up for sale, well just have to pony up for those, kind of regardless of what GPA tells you.

[blazingbob]

I haven't seen them on Can't Buy Can't Sell yet

[blazingbob]

Who you calling a Ho peddler?

[Jaylam]

This may be splitting hairs, but as I've commented on another thread, I thought the purpose of grading was to establish how much a book's condition has changed versus how it was originally manufactured and sold. It could be mis-wrapped, mis-cut and so on, but if it was originally made that way, it shouldn't affect its grade. Eye appeal is a combination of grade and that X-factor of what we think makes a book look nice regardless of the grade.

[Rip]

I've always been a little puzzled by how much CGC downgrades books for small or nearly imperceptible stains while being pretty generous to books with tanning, dust shadows, and halos. I've seen some books in 9.4 holders with heavy tanning that's evident right through the covers. Same thing for dust shadows. But then I've seen gorgeous books hammered for a tiny water mark that you can only see when you hold the book at just the right angle under a high-powered halogen lamp.

 

That aside, I can understand why CGC doesn't downgrade much for things like slight mis-cuts, fanned pages and less than perfect centering. Collectors can see that stuff on any decent scan and we all have different levels of tolerance for those things.

 

I agree 100%

[Bomber-Bob]

I thought the purpose of grading was to establish how much a book's condition has changed versus how it was originally manufactured and sold.

 

Being somewhat cynical about the current state of our hobby, I think the purpose of grading has morphed into a financial valuation of the book. CGC is no longer assigning grades, they are assigning prices.

[rjpb]

I thought the purpose of grading was to establish how much a book's condition has changed versus how it was originally manufactured and sold.

 

Being somewhat cynical about the current state of our hobby, I think the purpose of grading has morphed into a financial valuation of the book. CGC is no longer assigning grades, they are assigning prices.

 

I think you are being overly cynical. While there has been an obvious impact on price spreads in the higher grades due to CGC, there has always been a relationship between grade and value. One of the ways some less scrupulous dealers could improve their margins was by assigning different grades ( and hence values) when buying and selling. The purpose of grading has always been foremost to assign a price. Most people don't bother to even assign a raw grade to books they purchased off the stands until they get ready to sell them.

[Jeffro.]

I really thought most people would be in favor of eye appeal affecting the grade but obviously I was wrong. I think I now know why CGC decided against it from the onset, it's just too controversial, no clear majority opinion.Okay, back to the hunt for white paged, nicely centered, rust free, chip free books. Buy the book, not the grade.

 

I think you're right. Way too subjective. For instance, I have never minded a thin white strip along the spine. I find it aesthetically pleasing. I know I'm in the minority here but I like it. Fat white strips and even worse, diagonal miswraps, are not pleasing to me.

 

I really wish CGC had taken production defects into account from day one. A perfectly centered copy of book A in 9.6 is not the same as a diagonally miswrapped copy of book A in 9.6.

[rjpb]

I really thought most people would be in favor of eye appeal affecting the grade but obviously I was wrong. I think I now know why CGC decided against it from the onset, it's just too controversial, no clear majority opinion.Okay, back to the hunt for white paged, nicely centered, rust free, chip free books. Buy the book, not the grade.

 

I think you're right. Way too subjective. For instance, I have never minded a thin white strip along the spine. I find it aesthetically pleasing. I know I'm in the minority here but I like it. Fat white strips and even worse, diagonal miswraps, are not pleasing to me.

 

I really wish CGC had taken production defects into account from day one. A perfectly centered copy of book A in 9.6 is not the same as a diagonally miswrapped copy of book A in 9.6.

 

A lot of grading is subjective. I can see minor miswraps and centering issues not effecting grade, as this doing so was never the case ( to my knowledge) prior to CGC, and was mostly of concern to the "mint chasers". I feel that if an eye-appeal consideration is enough to have merited mention in a dealer's catalog prior to color scans and the internet, it's worth applying to the grade ( i.e. larger miswraps, foxing, tanning, Marvel chipping, dust shadows, etc.)

[Dr. Balls]

I'd rather see some other classification that takes in account of miswraps, printing defects, etc that affect the eye appeal, but should not affect the grade. A miswrapped cover or bindery issue should not be part of the grade, but some other notation would be pretty cool.

 

I think most people can agree that in some cases eye appeal sells a book. Maybe not for a premium, but it becomes a selling point that can help get the book out the door quicker than normal.

[rjpb]

This may be splitting hairs, but as I've commented on another thread, I thought the purpose of grading was to establish how much a book's condition has changed versus how it was originally manufactured and sold. It could be mis-wrapped, mis-cut and so on, but if it was originally made that way, it shouldn't affect its grade. Eye appeal is a combination of grade and that X-factor of what we think makes a book look nice regardless of the grade.

 

How much it's condition differs from when originally sold, or differs from original manufacture, or how much it differs from an ideal mInt state? And should those flaws due to aging paper and environment like tanning, Marvel chipping and foxing, be evaluated in the same way as flaws due to handling like tears, bends and creases.

[Jeffro.]

I'd rather see some other classification that takes in account of miswraps, printing defects, etc that affect the eye appeal, but should not affect the grade. A miswrapped cover or bindery issue should not be part of the grade, but some other notation would be pretty cool.

 

I disagree. It should affect the grade. It did prior to the inception of CGC.

 

In a cynical way, I can understand why CGC never considered these to be defects because it would cut into submissions.

[Bomber-Bob]

I'd rather see some other classification that takes in account of miswraps, printing defects, etc that affect the eye appeal, but should not affect the grade. A miswrapped cover or bindery issue should not be part of the grade, but some other notation would be pretty cool.

 

I disagree. It should affect the grade. It did prior to the inception of CGC.

 

 

Good point. Eye appeal was part grading before CGC. That is probably why the early submissions

to CGC 'seemed' to get hammered. But the book LOOKED so nice, how can it only be a FN, etc.