Coollinesartwork Questions

[DocR]

Jesus....

 

Guess I need to start my own business. Anyone interested in stick figure drawings?

Clear it all with an accountant (of course), but if you do go this route or a variation...you can deduct a lot of your collecting/fannish "lifestyle" from your regular W-2 income that would otherwise be taxed at 100% (less usual 1040 deductions). If you subscribe (or even casually buy, save your receipts!) to comic art magazines, comics, order art books from Amazon, eBay, computers, software, CAF premium fee, supplies if you're an artist, etc etc etc...anything that's in service of "the business" is deductible, whether you're profitable or not. Stuff you're probably buying now anyway with no tax break. Just make a fair effort to sell some stuff (list on eBay with high prices, deduct the listing fees) or take a $50 table at the occasional Holiday Inn one day show...and you're off to the races. And who knows, maybe you'll even make some money too!

 

You cannot run a business at a loss for more than a couple of years. I forget the exact number of years, but if you claim a hobby as a business, and write off expenses, you MUST show a profit within (I think) 3 years or you have to go back and pay the taxes you avoided. If you're in the art field, AND if you get 1099's, then you can deduct a hell of a lot of stuff. I work in animation, so I deduct like a demon when I work as an independent contractor. However, I cannot deduct nearly as much when my income is all on w-2s as an employee (technically, you can only deduct expenses that your employer expects of you but for which they will not pay). The IRS has strict rules about this stuff.

 

People get away with a lot at lower income levels, but I suggest doing some serious research before you go this route unless you want to roll the dice on a painful audit.

 

its not hard to show a "profit" in this hobby from time to time.

[delekkerste]

If it's never going to be realistically priced, why bother?

I can think of two excellent and intertwined reasons:

 

1. Many people run small businesses "at a loss" to deduct those losses against their other highly taxed income and/or gains. So all the eBay fees, table and room charges, travel expenses, mileage, all tax deductible. Probably the phones, internet, home "office" too. And anything else you can get away without being audited. Never have to "make" even $1 of profit either, though you would be tempting the audit if you did this perpetually as a loser. To do this, all one has to do is establish a "business" not a hobby (as defined by the amount of activity you do, clearly taking SDCC tables and flying to Comic Art Con in NJ qualifies), file returns as a sole-proprietor and start tallying the deductions. This works for Federal taxes but also sky high CA state taxes too. I'm sure the math is very attractive.

2. And then, taking the above into account, be available to make deals but only when they're so lopsided in your favor you'd be a damn fool not to

And that very occasional activity justifies #1 to the taxmen. Bonus: All the trades...fly under the radar.

 

Not to get too off-topic, but I met with my accountant yesterday and, as part of my overall tax review, floated the idea of starting a comic dealing business that might be beneficial from a tax perspective. This was shot down, however, for several reasons:

 

1. If you set up a business to transact comic art, your gains are taxed at ordinary income rates, not at the lower long-term collectibles capital gains tax rate of 28% (of course, short-term collectibles capital gains are taxed as ordinary income; you only get the lower rate if you've held on more than a year).

 

2. Any gains you earn from dealing are also subject to self-employment tax :doh:, whereas just selling and taking the capital gains hit is not not.

 

3. Home office expenses for such a business can only offset gains from this business. They cannot be used to offset any other type of income (other losses you may accumulate from the business can be used to offset other income, though; home office expenses are treated separately and differently).

 

In the end, it didn't make sense for me to do this.

[alxjhnsn]

If it's never going to be realistically priced, why bother?

I can think of two excellent and intertwined reasons:

 

1. Many people run small businesses "at a loss" to deduct those losses against their other highly taxed income and/or gains. So all the eBay fees, table and room charges, travel expenses, mileage, all tax deductible. Probably the phones, internet, home "office" too. And anything else you can get away without being audited. Never have to "make" even $1 of profit either, though you would be tempting the audit if you did this perpetually as a loser. To do this, all one has to do is establish a "business" not a hobby (as defined by the amount of activity you do, clearly taking SDCC tables and flying to Comic Art Con in NJ qualifies), file returns as a sole-proprietor and start tallying the deductions. This works for Federal taxes but also sky high CA state taxes too. I'm sure the math is very attractive.

2. And then, taking the above into account, be available to make deals but only when they're so lopsided in your favor you'd be a damn fool not to

And that very occasional activity justifies #1 to the taxmen. Bonus: All the trades...fly under the radar.

3. The are really collectors in dealer's clothing. That explains the trades and the high prices, I think.

[Terry Doyle]

If it's never going to be realistically priced, why bother?

I can think of two excellent and intertwined reasons:

 

1. Many people run small businesses "at a loss" to deduct those losses against their other highly taxed income and/or gains. So all the eBay fees, table and room charges, travel expenses, mileage, all tax deductible. Probably the phones, internet, home "office" too. And anything else you can get away without being audited. Never have to "make" even $1 of profit either, though you would be tempting the audit if you did this perpetually as a loser. To do this, all one has to do is establish a "business" not a hobby (as defined by the amount of activity you do, clearly taking SDCC tables and flying to Comic Art Con in NJ qualifies), file returns as a sole-proprietor and start tallying the deductions. This works for Federal taxes but also sky high CA state taxes too. I'm sure the math is very attractive.

2. And then, taking the above into account, be available to make deals but only when they're so lopsided in your favor you'd be a damn fool not to

And that very occasional activity justifies #1 to the taxmen. Bonus: All the trades...fly under the radar.

3. The are really collectors in dealer's clothing. That explains the trades and the high prices, I think.

 

Well, there are other dealers who also collect. None of those seem to have anywhere near the same level of over-pricing (and trade expectations) as Stevey D.

[alxjhnsn]

I think they are really pretty close to black hole collectors who like to show off what they have. No justification for their business practices, but I think that they really do not want to sell anything.

[Kevn]

Jesus....

 

Guess I need to start my own business. And who knows, maybe you'll even make some money too!

 

You cannot run a business at a loss for more than a couple of years. The IRS has strict rules about this stuff.

 

People get away with a lot at lower income levels, but I suggest doing some serious research before you go this route unless you want to roll the dice on a painful audit.

 

its not hard to show a "profit" in this hobby from time to time.

 

Sorry to continue the thread derail, but here are the rules about deducting OA expenses: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/can-you-deduct-your-expenses-from-hobby.html

 

So you can do it as a hobby (per the link here), or as a business (see Gene's comments), or as a professional artist or someone working in the field (see my original comments). In all cases, the IRS has definite rules, and you break those rules at your own risk. It can be done, and might be worth doing, but realize there are a LOT of collectors who deal in very expensive collecting worlds, and the IRS is not naive about this stuff.

[zhamlau]

I have purchased and overpaid for a number of things from them. They have turned out to be some of my most favorite pieces but you have to hold your nose and go forward.

 

If afraid the prior posting of it being 2.5 times actual price it should be is a lie, it's just not the case.

 

 

 

its 3 x at minimum, but I have seen pieces I know they marked up 10x -yes - purchased for $1,900 and then listed for $19,000!

 

 

 

 

Haha, ok fair enough 3x minimum. I just was going on my experiences with them and it always felt like 2-3 times fair market value. I probably haven't been able to successfully complete a purchase with them since they were called "San Mateo Art" because of that mark up. Ive been trying to buy the same 2 covers off them for 18 years .

 

 

[staffman]

Well it sounds like they will do business but it's never easy psychologically or financially. It does make you wonder that since they do soak up a bunch of the artwork and sell it for very high margin where are they finding that person out there willing to pay those prices since they are high and stay high? I know a few here bit the bullet and are ok with the deal, but it doesn't seem to warrant repeat business, which as a dealer I would think would be key. I've dealt with Albert Moy, Mike Burkey and Jason Schachter and all have been easy to work with on getting what I want. I'm not saying their prices are the greatest all the times, but at least they list the price and will work on some things when you have cash and with that attitude I will definitely keep checking in with them to secure more work in the future. Even fellow collectors who have sold to me have been easy to work with and fair in their pricing when selling to me. It just goes to show, I guess, if you run the risk of falling in love with that piece and that is the price they want then you have no choice but to pay or just move on. Just seems really low to me to do that to people, kind of like ticket scalpers.

[Doc Joe]

I have purchased and overpaid for a number of things from them. They have turned out to be some of my most favorite pieces but you have to hold your nose and go forward.

 

If afraid the prior posting of it being 2.5 times actual price it should be is a lie, it's just not the case.

 

 

 

its 3 x at minimum, but I have seen pieces I know they marked up 10x -yes - purchased for $1,900 and then listed for $19,000!

 

 

 

 

Haha, ok fair enough 3x minimum. I just was going on my experiences with them and it always felt like 2-3 times fair market value. I probably haven't been able to successfully complete a purchase with them since they were called "San Mateo Art" because of that mark up. Ive been trying to buy the same 2 covers off them for 18 years .

 

 

[Doc Joe]

art I have purchased from them - yes I have had a few dealings but I just cant do it any more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

and

 

Red Sonja 15 cover Cockrum

[Doc McCoy]

I've dealt with them on the opposite side of the spectrum. I sold a piece to them and a great deal of thought went into it before doing so, because I knew it was equivalent to the earth opening up and swallowing the piece. In the end, I went through with it because it helped finance another piece and it gave me a nice profit.

 

Side note: Doc Joe, that New Mutants cover is

[Unca Ben]

I know I bought some art from the Donnelly's back when I started collecting OA around 1999 to the early 2000's.

I know for sure I bought a Gil Kane Cap TOS page, an early Heck Avengers (maybe) - and a couple others, I can't remember what, though.

 

Anyway, I paid what I thought to be a bit above going rates at the time - maybe $100 more on a page that I could get for $500 elsewhere, for example.

That was a while ago, though. Looks like their markup percentage has increased a bit.

 

Communication with them was O.K. - I think one purchase may have been at WonderCon in Oakland, but I know one or two purchase were through the mail - eBay, perhaps.

 

If I remember, I sent some checks to a business address in Hayward or Union City or Fremont, California - somewhere around there.

I think they had some sort of printing business or some such going on.

 

In my last interaction with them I was trying to purchase multiple pages - a Kirby / Ayers page from Avengers 16 and another Kane Cap page for sure.

Plus one more, I don't remember what.

The prices were quite a bit higher than they were a few months earlier. I emailed a counteroffer and never heard back.

 

 

[Koa]

A store that doesn't have prices. Art vanishing into black holes. This whole thing sounds like a bad episode of the twilight zone

[Unca Ben]

I remember one of the other pieces I got from them, a Colan Subby TTA page.

This had to be by mail because when I received it I noticed a spliced-in correction in a word balloon had fallen off.

I didn't notice it, it may or may not have been there in the eBay listing. I'm not sure.

Still a nice panel page for me, though.

 

One other thought, it may have been a Palo Alto or San Mateo business address where I sent the check(s).

I just remember it being about 45 minutes up the road from me, but I'm not sure which side of the bay.

[Meeley Man]

I remember one of the other pieces I got from them, a Colan Subby TTA page.

This had to be by mail because when I received it I noticed a spliced-in correction in a word balloon had fallen off.

I didn't notice it, it may or may not have been there in the eBay listing. I'm not sure.

 

That's another thing you have to watch out for with these scam artists. They don't always tell you, or are honest with you, about things like stats and corrections in the art. I think I remember a story of someone asking them about a piece and wanting to know if there was any stat work on it. They told them there wasn't, but when they got it they found it had a large amount of it. When they complained, they gave this person no end of trouble.

 

As I said, one who deals with the Donnelly Brothers will get what they deserve.

[Unca Ben]

I remember one of the other pieces I got from them, a Colan Subby TTA page.

This had to be by mail because when I received it I noticed a spliced-in correction in a word balloon had fallen off.

I didn't notice it, it may or may not have been there in the eBay listing. I'm not sure.

 

That's another thing you have to watch out for with these scam artists. They don't always tell you, or are honest with you, about things like stats and corrections in the art. I think I remember a story of someone asking them about a piece and wanting to know if there was any stat work on it. They told them there wasn't, but when they got it they found it had a large amount of it. When they complained, they gave this person no end of trouble.

 

As I said, one who deals with the Donnelly Brothers will get what they deserve.

 

That's kinda rough.

 

Like I said, I bought from them about 14-15 years ago.

I had never seen these forums (if they were even around at the time) , eBay was only 4-5 years old, and there weren't any resources that I knew of to research like there are now.

 

Personally I'm glad I jumped in and started buying when I did. Prices kept going up month by month.

The Kane TOS Cap page I bought from them is now worth a bit more than the $600 I paid.

And so are the rest of the pages I got from them.

 

So there. Nyaaa!

 

[DeadpoolJr.]

I remember one of the other pieces I got from them, a Colan Subby TTA page.

This had to be by mail because when I received it I noticed a spliced-in correction in a word balloon had fallen off.

I didn't notice it, it may or may not have been there in the eBay listing. I'm not sure.

 

That's another thing you have to watch out for with these scam artists. They don't always tell you, or are honest with you, about things like stats and corrections in the art. I think I remember a story of someone asking them about a piece and wanting to know if there was any stat work on it. They told them there wasn't, but when they got it they found it had a large amount of it. When they complained, they gave this person no end of trouble.

 

As I said, one who deals with the Donnelly Brothers will get what they deserve.

I think that was comix4fun it happened to.

[comix4fun]

I remember one of the other pieces I got from them, a Colan Subby TTA page.

This had to be by mail because when I received it I noticed a spliced-in correction in a word balloon had fallen off.

I didn't notice it, it may or may not have been there in the eBay listing. I'm not sure.

 

That's another thing you have to watch out for with these scam artists. They don't always tell you, or are honest with you, about things like stats and corrections in the art. I think I remember a story of someone asking them about a piece and wanting to know if there was any stat work on it. They told them there wasn't, but when they got it they found it had a large amount of it. When they complained, they gave this person no end of trouble.

 

As I said, one who deals with the Donnelly Brothers will get what they deserve.

I think that was comix4fun it happened to.

 

 

Since some weren't around for the first post....

 

I bought a Secret Wars page from one of their Ebay incarnations.

 

I asked, before bidding, if there were any condition problems such as excessive white out, corrections, cut panels or non-logo/word balloon stats. I don't buy artwork with large portions stat or with major issues. So I always ask ahead of make a bid or consenting to buy.

 

The response was "no problems" and that the piece was in perfect condition.

 

It was a half splash with the entire X-men team assaulting Doom or some such.

 

I got the page and the entire splash panel, the top half of the page...was a stat.

 

I thought, "Perhaps this was an honest mistake, I will contact the seller and note the defect they missed, reference their commentary about no stats and request a reasonable partial refund for the discrepancy."

 

The answer I got back was, in total, "There's art under the stat"

 

Thus confirming it wasn't a mistake, it wasn't missed, the answer I got before I bid was false in the face of contrary facts known to the seller. The seller knew and withheld that information from me even when asked directly.

 

I never got my partial refund for the page and I was then afraid to ship the page back for a refund fearing some other "misunderstanding" may occur. I sold it at a loss to a friend who loved Secret Wars and wanted it anyway. For my troubles I got a story I can and will tell to anyone who asks.

[KidColt32]

I've been watching this thread and debating whether I should reply--wouldn't want to position myself as a supporter of the Donnelly Bros, since in the past I had many of the same experiences as other posters. Have done a lot of window shopping at their San Diego booth over the years, but often never got a straight answer on price. But for whatever reason, that seems to have changed. The stuff they put up on the wall in SD has all been priced for the past few years, and last year I emailed them with probably 6 or 7 inquiries about various pieces and every time got a pretty prompt and friendly response from Steve Donnelly with a price. And to give an idea of the types of pieces I asked about, they ranged in price from about $1200 to $20K. I didn't always agree with their prices, and they definitely are on the high end of the range--you're not going to find any steals with them, so don't bother. But if you look hard enough you might find a few fair-market deals; I feel like I did, and towards the end of last year I finally did a deal with them for two pieces. Over email we agreed on a price, I sent them a check, a few weeks later I had the art--pretty straightforward.

 

Again, not trying to defend them--just saying that if they have something you want, rather than giving up hope, you might as well ask (though I wouldn't give my phone number to anyone--just email them). Don't tell them how much you love the piece--but you probably shouldn't do that with any dealer!

[Mickey7]

Every time I do a "Dealer Results" search for a specific item on CAF, why do the same items from Coollines pop up numerous times in the list? For example, if I'm looking for "GI Joe Cover", throughout the listings, Gi Joe #58 comes up 3 times, and Gi Joe #81 comes up 4 times. It's like that with many pieces they own.

 

Are they simply loading & re-loading the same artwork over and over again so that their listing get bumped to the top?