Mile High or Cosmic Aeroplane?

[jimbo_707]

This copy of Fantastic No. 8 that's slabbed as the Mile High copy, and which sold on Heritage last year, appears to be the same copy that Heritage sold raw as the Cosmic Aeroplane copy. What gives? Note the small "5" penciled in the central green field, the check above the guy's head, the check above the baddie's wing, and the ding on the bottom edge as points of identification.

 

http://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/fantastic-8-mile-high-pedigree-youthful-magazines-1952-cgc-nm-92-off-white-to-white-pages/a/7036-91281.s

 

http://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/fantastic-8-cosmic-aeroplane-pedigree-youthful-magazines-1952-condition-nm-here-s-the-first-issue-of-a-science-fictio/a/752-50288.s

 

[Sqeggs]

Sure looks like the same book. I've raised the question before about how pedigree copies are confirmed. CGC is only willing to talk about it in general terms. Since both the Church and CA pedigrees were discovered before CGC was founded they have to rely to some extent on provenance and the clains of the owner.

 

Let's hope there were legitimate reasons for changing the attribution in this case.

[Gotham Kid]

Definitely same book. Pencil marking over blonde guy's head is another giveaway.

[jimbo_707]

Let's hope there were legitimate reasons for changing the attribution in this case.

 

With those check marks, it seems like the original designation was likely the correct one, wouldn't you say?

 

Since the book was sold (to someone) as the Cosmic Aeroplane copy, provenance is out the window as the basis for the change.

 

[Artboy99]

is there a premium on Edgar Church books?

If so, I can see that being a reason to make this pedigree change...$$$

[G.A.tor]

cosmic A's are easily identified (generally) by all the interior panels checked...seems like it would be pretty simple given the book in its raw state

[buttock]

There's a checkmark on the cover near the 5. CGC's pedigree recognition is lousy unless Mark or Matt check the books.

[Sqeggs]

Let's hope there were legitimate reasons for changing the attribution in this case.

 

With those check marks, it seems like the original designation was likely the correct one, wouldn't you say?

 

Since the book was sold (to someone) as the Cosmic Aeroplane copy, provenance is out the window as the basis for the change.

 

Certainly it would appear more likely that it is a CA book than a Church book, but it's certainly possible that there was some private info -- say, it was established that the book was originally purchased from Chuck as a Church copy and the CA designation was a mistake based on the check marks -- that was brought to CGC's attention when the book was graded.

 

I doubt we will ever know for sure.

[Sqeggs]

One other stray thought: Church apparently began buying comics to have examples for his commercial art work. It's evident that, in fact, he became compulsive and never used -- or even opened -- most of the books he bought.

 

As this is a comparatively early book, though, perhaps it dates from a time when he actually was using the books and the check marks reflect that.

 

Just speculating, of course.

[jimbo_707]

As this is a comparatively early book, though, perhaps it dates from a time when he actually was using the books and the check marks reflect that.

 

 

? The book is from '52, which towards the end of the Mile High collection.

 

With what look like 4 check marks on the front cover, I can see why Heritage called it a CA copy. Unfortunately, we can't look at the interior to see if there are more checks.

 

There simply would not be that many marks on any book that Edgar bought off the newsstand. It could have been a secondhand copy, but I think it's more likely that CGC made a mistake. Maybe it was a simple as someone accidentally checking the MH box instead of the CA box when filling out the label info.

[ciorac]

As this is a comparatively early book, though, perhaps it dates from a time when he actually was using the books and the check marks reflect that.

 

 

? The book is from '52, which towards the end of the Mile High collection.

 

It is on the Mile High list as a NM+ for $5.00

[jimbo_707]

As this is a comparatively early book, though, perhaps it dates from a time when he actually was using the books and the check marks reflect that.

 

 

? The book is from '52, which towards the end of the Mile High collection.

 

It is on the Mile High list as a NM+ for $5.00

$5?

 

Actually, I did see it there, but I'm not sure what to read into that. I know Chuck's grading wasn't perfect, but I don't think he would have called this copy a NM+ in its current condition. Maybe there's a true NM+, MH copy out there in someone's private collection.

 

Is there a comprehensive CA list?

[Sqeggs]

As this is a comparatively early book, though, perhaps it dates from a time when he actually was using the books and the check marks reflect that.

 

 

? The book is from '52, which towards the end of the Mile High collection.

 

With what look like 4 check marks on the front cover, I can see why Heritage called it a CA copy. Unfortunately, we can't look at the interior to see if there are more checks.

 

There simply would not be that many marks on any book that Edgar bought off the newsstand. It could have been a secondhand copy, but I think it's more likely that CGC made a mistake. Maybe it was a simple as someone accidentally checking the MH box instead of the CA box when filling out the label info.

 

Yep. In writing that post, I just glanced up at your first post and saw the "1938" in the link.

 

Are we sure that even at first he didn't use books as models for his commercial work? As I noted, it's pretty clear that after some point he exhibited compulsive behavior and most of his books appear to have been stacked away unopened.

 

Leaving aside the known Church newsstand/distributor markings, I have seen some of his books with other marks on them. As you say, these books appear to have been purchased second-hand.

 

I would hate to think that checking the wrong box would be enough to get a book wrongly attributed as a Mile High, but CGC's QC can certainly be very shaky at times.

[Sqeggs]

As this is a comparatively early book, though, perhaps it dates from a time when he actually was using the books and the check marks reflect that.

 

 

? The book is from '52, which towards the end of the Mile High collection.

 

It is on the Mile High list as a NM+ for $5.00

$5?

 

Actually, I did see it there, but I'm not sure what to read into that. I know Chuck's grading wasn't perfect, but I don't think he would have called this copy a NM+ in its current condition. Maybe there's a true NM+, MH copy out there in someone's private collection.

 

Is there a comprehensive CA list?

 

Almost certainly there isn't a CA list. It was found so early and sold off pretty widely. That's my impression, at any rate.

 

With respect to condition, if this is the Church copy, it may have changed hands a couple of times before the first HA sale. In addition, I wonder how much attention Chuck would have given to grading a comparatively less valuable book when he had a lot of books to get graded.

[Robot Man]

Here is one I got from Ron Pussell (Redbeard). Whiz #128. Edgar appears to have bought this used. Note the scribbling in the cloud on the right side. This one was probably in the piles on the basement floor. Without the certificate from Redbeard, this would have been lost to time.

 

[Flex Mentallo]

 

With what look like 4 check marks on the front cover, I can see why Heritage called it a CA copy.

 

As far as I know, the owner of the Cosmic Aeroplane books placed check marks next to the good girl art content, usually by the "good girl"'s head. At least in the ones I've seen?

[jimbo_707]

 

With what look like 4 check marks on the front cover, I can see why Heritage called it a CA copy.

 

As far as I know, the owner of the Cosmic Aeroplane books placed check marks next to the good girl art content, usually by the "good girl"'s head. At least in the ones I've seen?

My understanding was that the CA collection came from an art school, and that the checked items were things that the students were supposed to try to draw. It's possible that for some issues, the focus was on GGA, but this is the first I've heard anything like that.

[G.A.tor]

 

With what look like 4 check marks on the front cover, I can see why Heritage called it a CA copy.

 

As far as I know, the owner of the Cosmic Aeroplane books placed check marks next to the good girl art content, usually by the "good girl"'s head. At least in the ones I've seen?

My understanding was that the CA collection came from an art school, and that the checked items were things that the students were supposed to try to draw. It's possible that for some issues, the focus was on GGA, but this is the first I've heard anything like that.

you are correct jimbo...

[G.A.tor]

The second earliest collection recognized as a pedigree, Cosmic Aeroplanes are famous for their distinct markings. Discovered in Salt Lake City, Utah in 1972, the collection was raided by a few collectors before being sold to David Faggiola, owner of the Cosmic Aeroplane Bookstore (hence the name). The books were subsequently and anonymously liquidated into the market.

 

The collection was amassed by an art teacher during the ’40s and ‘50s to be used for demonstrative purposes for students. This is evident by the numerous checkmarks and notations written in pencil on the margins of each page, or on the cover. Because the collection had been assimilated long before the pedigree concept took hold, there are many unidentified in the market. Collectors enjoy the rush of discovering “lost” copies from the collection, an emotion similarly experienced by fans of the San Francisco, Okajima and Recil Macon pedigrees.

 

There is no way of knowing the true size of the Cosmic Aeroplane collection, but it’s rumored to be somewhere between 2,000 and 3,000. It yielded some big key issues like Adventure #40, Flash #1, and the Showcase #4 pictured on the cover of the 1992 Overstreet Grading Guide. The average grade of the collection is a bit lower than that of its fellow pedigrees, but the rumored size, presence of big keys, and easy identification has allowed the collection’s legacy to prevail over the years.

 

[Sqeggs]

The second earliest collection recognized as a pedigree, Cosmic Aeroplanes are famous for their distinct markings. Discovered in Salt Lake City, Utah in 1972, the collection was raided by a few collectors before being sold to David Faggiola, owner of the Cosmic Aeroplane Bookstore (hence the name). The books were subsequently and anonymously liquidated into the market.

 

The collection was amassed by an art teacher during the ’40s and ‘50s to be used for demonstrative purposes for students. This is evident by the numerous checkmarks and notations written in pencil on the margins of each page, or on the cover. Because the collection had been assimilated long before the pedigree concept took hold, there are many unidentified in the market. Collectors enjoy the rush of discovering “lost” copies from the collection, an emotion similarly experienced by fans of the San Francisco, Okajima and Recil Macon pedigrees.

 

There is no way of knowing the true size of the Cosmic Aeroplane collection, but it’s rumored to be somewhere between 2,000 and 3,000. It yielded some big key issues like Adventure #40, Flash #1, and the Showcase #4 pictured on the cover of the 1992 Overstreet Grading Guide. The average grade of the collection is a bit lower than that of its fellow pedigrees, but the rumored size, presence of big keys, and easy identification has allowed the collection’s legacy to prevail over the years.

 

Interesting. So, it's looking like this book is actually a CA rather than a Church, unless there is some backstory that we don't know.