Superman (1939) 1 question

[Seadevils]

In the early 90's dealers were getting about vg OPG for restored books. THe unscrupulous guys were getting full guide. I observed this a lot and knew who not to buy from as they would not disclose restoration. That was really big in the 1970's and 80's. Restoration flooded the market at the cons. Think that's why many have such distaste for them today.

[peewee22]

Thanks guys...Glad to see I'm not alone with my thoughts on the resto biz...but unfortunately a victim of the times and non sympathetic vulture investors.

 

A local friend/collector of mine (same age as myself basically) has the passion and love for the comics as we. Gets his son involved..and all he cares to see are the most expensive books...not the beauty, art, stories, characters...but what are the most valuable books. If that's where its headed...Our hobby is doomed.

 

Do I know this dude Keith?

[Seadevils]

Thanks guys...Glad to see I'm not alone with my thoughts on the resto biz...but unfortunately a victim of the times and non sympathetic vulture investors.

 

A local friend/collector of mine (same age as myself basically) has the passion and love for the comics as we. Gets his son involved..and all he cares to see are the most expensive books...not the beauty, art, stories, characters...but what are the most valuable books. If that's where its headed...Our hobby is doomed.

 

Do I know this dude Keith?

 

Don't know...possibly...we are all in Arkansas. His name is John. Didn't hear back from you last night man. Hope your son is doing alright.

[rob_react]

So who's got one for sale? I've got $25 to $40k to spend for a Supey #1.

 

coming soon to a CConnect auction near you ...

 

Yeah, there's one coming up at ComicConnect (8.5?) and another... at Heritage maybe (lower grade?)

[rob_react]

I just find it crazy that people will pay $50k to $80k for a 1.8 to 2.0 Superman #1 that is not very pleasing to the eye.

 

FWIW, I think $50k is long gone. We're approaching the point where any unrestored Superman #1 is a $100,000 book. That horrible looking (horrible!) voldemort copy just sold for $80,000. I think a decent looking 2.0 or 2.5 in a CGC holder would break six figures.

[Seadevils]

So who's got one for sale? I've got $25 to $40k to spend for a Supey #1.

 

coming soon to a CConnect auction near you ...

 

Yeah, there's one coming up at ComicConnect (8.5?) and another... at Heritage maybe (lower grade?)

 

I'm just now getting back into the forums and locating the other online auction sites. Mainly just bid at Ebay the past several years off and on. Basically went for over a year without buying any comics until about 2 moths ago. Just rediscovered comic link last night and recall getting many of my GA books there years back. I do set up at our local shows here in the central Arkansas area. I'm the guy that always has the pre-1975 books that most collectors around here look at but cannot buy..mainly because they spend all their loot on Marvels and not my DCs.

[rob_react]

I will say as one of the newer collectors, and I prefer my books deacidified. I am young enough I will have them for quite some time (hopefully) and I do not wish to see them deteriorate for the sake of market value.

 

I feel exactly the same way. Newsprint wasn't made to last and eventually even all those old books in Blue labels are going to need to be deacidfied. Either that or turn to dust in a plastic tomb.

 

The big question is when? If properly stored I don't think we will need to worry about the dust scenario anytime in the next 100+ years.

 

Also, the market has drastically changed for restored books. Look back even 10 years ago at how cheap a restored book was. In 2004 a Batman 1 in 8.5 with slight restoration sold for $13,800. In 2014, a 7.0 with slight restoration sold for $38,837.50. Personally I think restored books are priced exactly where they should be priced given many sell on the open market where the price is dictated by what two people are willing to pay.

 

With the new conserved label, there is some room for further development in the market, but for pure restored books the market has got them figured out.

 

 

[Seadevils]

I just find it crazy that people will pay $50k to $80k for a 1.8 to 2.0 Superman #1 that is not very pleasing to the eye.

 

FWIW, I think $50k is long gone. We're approaching the point where any unrestored Superman #1 is a $100,000 book. That horrible looking (horrible!) voldemort copy just sold for $80,000. I think a decent looking 2.0 or 2.5 in a CGC holder would break six figures.

 

I understand..and agree with that...I was just saying I can't believe people would choose that over a beautiful minor restore for the same money. I was about to pay $100,000 for a minor restored 6.5 and you guys are telling me that's way too high for a book that has had any type of work done to it at all. I would never consider it on a book that has had multiple piece replacement...cleaned and re-glossed on top of multiple tear seals and color-touched. A total Frankenstitch (aka extensive P) job as the one appears that's at Ebay now for $59,000. My argument is...the price should be based on exactly what was done and how much of the original book is intact.

[Seadevils]

I will say as one of the newer collectors, and I prefer my books deacidified. I am young enough I will have them for quite some time (hopefully) and I do not wish to see them deteriorate for the sake of market value.

 

I feel exactly the same way. Newsprint wasn't made to last and eventually even all those old books in Blue labels are going to need to be deacidfied. Either that or turn to dust in a plastic tomb.

 

The big question is when? If properly stored I don't think we will need to worry about the dust scenario anytime in the next 100+ years.

 

Also, the market has drastically changed for restored books. Look back even 10 years ago at how cheap a restored book was. In 2004 a Batman 1 in 8.5 with slight restoration sold for $13,800. In 2014, a 7.0 with slight restoration sold for $38,837.50. Personally I think restored books are priced exactly where they should be priced given many sell on the open market where the price is dictated by what two people are willing to pay.

 

With the new conserved label, there is some room for further development in the market, but for pure restored books the market has got them figured out.

 

 

Isn't the new conserved label just from the newer grading service..or has CGC adopted that label as well?

[The-Collector]

I will say as one of the newer collectors, and I prefer my books deacidified. I am young enough I will have them for quite some time (hopefully) and I do not wish to see them deteriorate for the sake of market value.

 

I feel exactly the same way. Newsprint wasn't made to last and eventually even all those old books in Blue labels are going to need to be deacidfied. Either that or turn to dust in a plastic tomb.

 

The big question is when? If properly stored I don't think we will need to worry about the dust scenario anytime in the next 100+ years.

 

Also, the market has drastically changed for restored books. Look back even 10 years ago at how cheap a restored book was. In 2004 a Batman 1 in 8.5 with slight restoration sold for $13,800. In 2014, a 7.0 with slight restoration sold for $38,837.50. Personally I think restored books are priced exactly where they should be priced given many sell on the open market where the price is dictated by what two people are willing to pay.

 

With the new conserved label, there is some room for further development in the market, but for pure restored books the market has got them figured out.

 

 

Isn't the new conserved label just from the newer grading service..or has CGC adopted that label as well?

 

Hmm, I see a sea change for restored books coming. The voldermort blue labels have been doing well...

[kinzebac]

I will say as one of the newer collectors, and I prefer my books deacidified. I am young enough I will have them for quite some time (hopefully) and I do not wish to see them deteriorate for the sake of market value.

 

I feel exactly the same way. Newsprint wasn't made to last and eventually even all those old books in Blue labels are going to need to be deacidfied. Either that or turn to dust in a plastic tomb.

 

The big question is when? If properly stored I don't think we will need to worry about the dust scenario anytime in the next 100+ years.

 

Also, the market has drastically changed for restored books. Look back even 10 years ago at how cheap a restored book was. In 2004 a Batman 1 in 8.5 with slight restoration sold for $13,800. In 2014, a 7.0 with slight restoration sold for $38,837.50. Personally I think restored books are priced exactly where they should be priced given many sell on the open market where the price is dictated by what two people are willing to pay.

 

With the new conserved label, there is some room for further development in the market, but for pure restored books the market has got them figured out.

 

 

Isn't the new conserved label just from the newer grading service..or has CGC adopted that label as well?

 

 

They both have it.

[Sqeggs]

I will say as one of the newer collectors, and I prefer my books deacidified. I am young enough I will have them for quite some time (hopefully) and I do not wish to see them deteriorate for the sake of market value.

 

I feel exactly the same way. Newsprint wasn't made to last and eventually even all those old books in Blue labels are going to need to be deacidfied. Either that or turn to dust in a plastic tomb.

 

The big question is when? If properly stored I don't think we will need to worry about the dust scenario anytime in the next 100+ years.

 

Also, the market has drastically changed for restored books. Look back even 10 years ago at how cheap a restored book was. In 2004 a Batman 1 in 8.5 with slight restoration sold for $13,800. In 2014, a 7.0 with slight restoration sold for $38,837.50. Personally I think restored books are priced exactly where they should be priced given many sell on the open market where the price is dictated by what two people are willing to pay.

 

With the new conserved label, there is some room for further development in the market, but for pure restored books the market has got them figured out.

 

 

Isn't the new conserved label just from the newer grading service..or has CGC adopted that label as well?

 

Here is the current CGC system, which now recognizes a distinction between conservation and restoration: Link

[Seadevils]

I will say as one of the newer collectors, and I prefer my books deacidified. I am young enough I will have them for quite some time (hopefully) and I do not wish to see them deteriorate for the sake of market value.

 

I feel exactly the same way. Newsprint wasn't made to last and eventually even all those old books in Blue labels are going to need to be deacidfied. Either that or turn to dust in a plastic tomb.

 

The big question is when? If properly stored I don't think we will need to worry about the dust scenario anytime in the next 100+ years.

 

Also, the market has drastically changed for restored books. Look back even 10 years ago at how cheap a restored book was. In 2004 a Batman 1 in 8.5 with slight restoration sold for $13,800. In 2014, a 7.0 with slight restoration sold for $38,837.50. Personally I think restored books are priced exactly where they should be priced given many sell on the open market where the price is dictated by what two people are willing to pay.

 

With the new conserved label, there is some room for further development in the market, but for pure restored books the market has got them figured out.

 

 

Isn't the new conserved label just from the newer grading service..or has CGC adopted that label as well?

 

Hmm, I see a sea change for restored books coming. The voldermort blue labels have been doing well...

 

Okay..my ignorance here is blaring..what are these voldermort books?

[kinzebac]

I will say as one of the newer collectors, and I prefer my books deacidified. I am young enough I will have them for quite some time (hopefully) and I do not wish to see them deteriorate for the sake of market value.

 

I feel exactly the same way. Newsprint wasn't made to last and eventually even all those old books in Blue labels are going to need to be deacidfied. Either that or turn to dust in a plastic tomb.

 

The big question is when? If properly stored I don't think we will need to worry about the dust scenario anytime in the next 100+ years.

 

Also, the market has drastically changed for restored books. Look back even 10 years ago at how cheap a restored book was. In 2004 a Batman 1 in 8.5 with slight restoration sold for $13,800. In 2014, a 7.0 with slight restoration sold for $38,837.50. Personally I think restored books are priced exactly where they should be priced given many sell on the open market where the price is dictated by what two people are willing to pay.

 

With the new conserved label, there is some room for further development in the market, but for pure restored books the market has got them figured out.

 

 

Isn't the new conserved label just from the newer grading service..or has CGC adopted that label as well?

 

Hmm, I see a sea change for restored books coming. The voldermort blue labels have been doing well...

 

Okay..my ignorance here is blaring..what are these voldermort books?

 

 

The name for the other grading company.

[Gotham Kid]

Okay..my ignorance here is blaring..what are these voldermort books?

 

CBCS graded books. The new grading company on the block.

[kinzebac]

Okay..my ignorance here is blaring..what are these voldermort books?

 

CBCS graded books. The new grading company on the block.

 

Thanks Peter. I didn't know if I could write their name out.

[Seadevils]

Here is the current CGC system, which now recognizes a distinction between conservation and restoration: Link

 

 

Thanks goodness for this. Tear seals and minor color touches just should not be hammered as major restoration. I always argued there should be a distinction there. Finally....we're waking up people!!

 

[Seadevils]

Well...after reviewing the CGC criteria for conservation vs. restoration looks like no amount of color touch no matter how minor is accepted in the conserve category. But at least the tear seals and spine splits are being revered as just that and not a restored comic.

 

I call it preservation of our treasures. Just seems a small amount of color to hide the tear seal would fly. Apparantly there is still a lot of disagreement there.

 

 

[Sqeggs]

Well...after reviewing the CGC criteria for conservation vs. restoration looks like no amount of color touch no matter how minor is accepted in the conserve category. But at least the tear seals and spine splits are being revered as just that and not a restored comic.

 

I call it preservation of our treasures. Just seems a small amount of color to hide the tear seal would fly. Apparantly there is still a lot of disagreement there.

 

 

Of course, with GA books a spot of ct isn't usually enough to keep a book out of a blue slab.

[ft88]

Reversing resto also comes into play. As mentioned very minor glue or c.t. will still get a blue label (though will also get punished when priced compared to a similar copy with "no notes")

 

But any slight restored comic will be viewed with an eye towards reversing the resto or similarly viewed as if it were a flaw as part of grading if it were reversed.

 

So a book with a dime sized oil stain, I look at it as slightly better than if the piece was missing. A dime sized color touch (only) I view the same way blue label or purple.

 

But very few mega keys have simple restored aspects like that they almost all have large lines of white filled in, cover cleaned (unreversable), seals (some reversable, some not) etc.

 

I personally fall into the other camp, I would much rather have a 1.5 rag than a 6.0 extensive. Depends on all the flaws and resto of course. A true unrestored book has a certain allure as if it were from the original owner. Maybe caretaken by a dealer or collector or two but still the same book as originally read by the OO. Yes I get that this is truly not real, that natural aging, handling and pressing are often part of the grade. But compared to a book that has had stuff done to it often with the sole purpose of increasing collector value and often with fraudulant purposes. The magic of a $50,000 key book gets instantly tainted.

 

Have you ever had a nice book you loved come back surprisingly as restored? Countless stories of that and instantly the owner can't wait to simply get rid of it like a dirty rag.

 

Give me original any and every day of the week. Don't clean your coins with silver polish, don't stripclean your 18th century furniture, and don't restore your comics. Sure we all want NM 9.4 keys but the 1.5's have magic too and should be priced appropriately to a restored higher grade. 7.0 moderate does not equal a 4.0 original. Maybe not even a 2.0 on the right mega key that was constantly restored since the 1980s onward.