"This Score Needs Fixing" Thread - LOCKED FOR NOW

[Clouded9]

Ah okay, they have a secret sauce, fair enough. However, I do see some books like Batman 608 RRP have a value of 2,400, so some books to warrant high reg points, yea? I think this Wolverine #1 one a couple others (based on scarcity and popularity primarily) warrant such high points. But that is my opinion of course.

 

 

Jerome

 

I agree with PiP and Bob on this one.

 

The following is my opinion.

 

A person's perception dictates a person's reality and as a primarily golden and silver age collector I do not see these modern variants as scarce (even at a 400 estimated print run like the Batman 608 RRP) or very popular and below I'll attempt to explain why.

 

You state that this modern variant book and others like it warrant such high points primarily due to scarcity and popularity, but a large problem I have with that statement (and just about all retailer variant copies) is that the scarcity of the book was manufactured and is misleading when compared to older books. Batman 608 RRP may be rare/scarce in the realm of modern book collecting, but at the macro level of comic collecting in general I would say it's not that scarce at all. Even if only 400 copies of the Batman 608 RRP were printed I still feel comfortable saying that at least 300 of them are likely in non restored ultra high grade (9.4+) condition. Golden age collectors and most early silver age collectors can only dream about that level of availability in that grade range for a vast majority the books they are trying to acquire. They simply do not exist at that quantity and in many cases they no longer exist at all.

 

As for popularity, today there are many folks from collectors of all focuses and ages (Golden - Modern) to non-collectors who just follow pop culture in general who would likely recognize a ASM #1, X-men #1, Daredevil #1, Avengers #1, Batman #1, etc (note that all of these books have registry point values well below their fair market values). How many of them would likely recognize the 608 RRP today? 40-50 years from now? In general, I'd say the Batman 608 RRP book is not very popular.

 

Other than being an intentionally low printed promo book, what makes the 608 RRP book special and worth so many points? What is it's significance to the character, the DC universe, etc.? What about the Wolverine #1 variant?

 

In my opinion, I think the Batman 608 RRP book could actually use a drop in it's score. That score probably has not been reviewed since it's inception at the height of it's own hype. Just my .

[Clouded9]

Gemma,

 

In the competitive set Marvel Magazines 1st Issues (1968-1982) the TOMB OF DRACULA #1 being listed by users is the comic book and not the Marvel magazine.

 

Here is link to a sale of the correct magazine:

 

Tomb of Dracula #1 Marvel Magazine for sale

 

Here is a link to the Top Set for Marvel Magazines 1st Issues (1968-1982):

 

The comic book is listed instead of the Mag.

 

Top Set with incorrect ToD #1 listed

 

Thanks!

[Lethal_Collector]

Ah okay, they have a secret sauce, fair enough. However, I do see some books like Batman 608 RRP have a value of 2,400, so some books to warrant high reg points, yea? I think this Wolverine #1 one a couple others (based on scarcity and popularity primarily) warrant such high points. But that is my opinion of course.

 

 

Jerome

 

I agree with PiP and Bob on this one.

 

The following is my opinion.

 

A person's perception dictates a person's reality and as a primarily golden and silver age collector I do not see these modern variants as scarce (even at a 400 estimated print run like the Batman 608 RRP) or very popular and below I'll attempt to explain why.

 

You state that this modern variant book and others like it warrant such high points primarily due to scarcity and popularity, but a large problem I have with that statement (and just about all retailer variant copies) is that the scarcity of the book was manufactured and is misleading when compared to older books. Batman 608 RRP may be rare/scarce in the realm of modern book collecting, but at the macro level of comic collecting in general I would say it's not that scarce at all. Even if only 400 copies of the Batman 608 RRP were printed I still feel comfortable saying that at least 300 of them are likely in non restored ultra high grade (9.4+) condition. Golden age collectors and most early silver age collectors can only dream about that level of availability in that grade range for a vast majority the books they are trying to acquire. They simply do not exist at that quantity and in many cases they no longer exist at all.

 

As for popularity, today there are many folks from collectors of all focuses and ages (Golden - Modern) to non-collectors who just follow pop culture in general who would likely recognize a ASM #1, X-men #1, Daredevil #1, Avengers #1, Batman #1, etc (note that all of these books have registry point values well below their fair market values). How many of them would likely recognize the 608 RRP today? 40-50 years from now? In general, I'd say the Batman 608 RRP book is not very popular.

 

Other than being an intentionally low printed promo book, what makes the 608 RRP book special and worth so many points? What is it's significance to the character, the DC universe, etc.? What about the Wolverine #1 variant?

 

In my opinion, I think the Batman 608 RRP book could actually use a drop in it's score. That score probably has not been reviewed since it's inception at the height of it's own hype. Just my .

 

I see where you are coming from, however you can't deny the fact that demand is driving price and whether golden/silver age guys feel good/bad about it. The demand warrants more registry points, period. At the very least a score in the multiple hundreds, not just 30 points. That is doing a huge disservice to the modern age collectors, sorry.

 

Jerome

[Clouded9]

Ah okay, they have a secret sauce, fair enough. However, I do see some books like Batman 608 RRP have a value of 2,400, so some books to warrant high reg points, yea? I think this Wolverine #1 one a couple others (based on scarcity and popularity primarily) warrant such high points. But that is my opinion of course.

 

 

Jerome

 

I agree with PiP and Bob on this one.

 

The following is my opinion.

 

A person's perception dictates a person's reality and as a primarily golden and silver age collector I do not see these modern variants as scarce (even at a 400 estimated print run like the Batman 608 RRP) or very popular and below I'll attempt to explain why.

 

You state that this modern variant book and others like it warrant such high points primarily due to scarcity and popularity, but a large problem I have with that statement (and just about all retailer variant copies) is that the scarcity of the book was manufactured and is misleading when compared to older books. Batman 608 RRP may be rare/scarce in the realm of modern book collecting, but at the macro level of comic collecting in general I would say it's not that scarce at all. Even if only 400 copies of the Batman 608 RRP were printed I still feel comfortable saying that at least 300 of them are likely in non restored ultra high grade (9.4+) condition. Golden age collectors and most early silver age collectors can only dream about that level of availability in that grade range for a vast majority the books they are trying to acquire. They simply do not exist at that quantity and in many cases they no longer exist at all.

 

As for popularity, today there are many folks from collectors of all focuses and ages (Golden - Modern) to non-collectors who just follow pop culture in general who would likely recognize a ASM #1, X-men #1, Daredevil #1, Avengers #1, Batman #1, etc (note that all of these books have registry point values well below their fair market values). How many of them would likely recognize the 608 RRP today? 40-50 years from now? In general, I'd say the Batman 608 RRP book is not very popular.

 

Other than being an intentionally low printed promo book, what makes the 608 RRP book special and worth so many points? What is it's significance to the character, the DC universe, etc.? What about the Wolverine #1 variant?

 

In my opinion, I think the Batman 608 RRP book could actually use a drop in it's score. That score probably has not been reviewed since it's inception at the height of it's own hype. Just my .

 

I see where you are coming from, however you can't deny the fact that demand is driving price and whether golden/silver age guys feel good/bad about it. The demand warrants more registry points, period. At the very least a score in the multiple hundreds, not just 30 points. That is doing a huge disservice to the modern age collectors, sorry.

 

Jerome

 

Jerome,

 

30 points may be too low, but 3000 points is simply not justifiable, in my opinion, based on the facts known about the book. I don't want our exchange here to be viewed as a gold/silver age vs modern age thing. Believe me, I'm not against modern books having high scores in any way, but I feel that the book as a whole needs to justify the score or else let's just throw the points system out all together and rank all the sets by level of completion, presentation, and book grade (I wouldn't mind this system actually).

 

I believe a good example of a modern book with a well deserved high point value is Walking Dead #1. A 9.8 Universal copy has an very strong market value of around $2000 and around only 2000 copies were printed if I recall correctly. This covers scarcity and reflects solid demand, but this book does not stop there. The Walking Dead has become a worldwide cultural phenomenon and this book is responsible for introducing the world and characters that are instantly recognized by millions and millions of fans around the globe. Can the 608 RRP variant or Wolverine #1 variant make any similar claim?

 

The Walking Dead #1 is worth a little over 1000 registry points at the moment for a 9.8 and I believe it could easily be more due to it's significance to global pop culture, low print run, consistent realized market value, etc. If the Walking Dead phenomenon is still going strong in another decade and the demand for the book holds or increases (along with the market value) then I believe the score should be revisited a maybe bumped up again.

 

Scarcity and demand alone are a good enough measure to determine monetary value of something sure, there is no argument there. However, for a points based system in a collectable hobby such as ours that spans nearly a century and several generations, I believe that the points should be determined by many more variables and not solely scarcity and demand. For example, to name a few, historical significance should be considered and not just in the realm of the characters or comic book universes, but at a social and cultural level as well (books released during the WWII era come to mind full of anti Nazi propaganda and ads encouraging the purchase of war bonds). Age, like it or not, should have a significant bearing on score in my opinion. For example, I feel that a book surviving 70 years in NM condition is an amazing feat and should be rewarded with a base level point boost that should not be given to a modern book printed 5 years ago on the advanced materials being used now. The amount of modern books being slabbed is staggering and many of them will never experience the decades long gauntlet of grade lowering dangers that the older books had to survive until CGC came along.

 

Again, just my 2 pennies.

 

James

[Lethal_Collector]

I just can't 100% agree with your point of view (I do see where you are coming from though) and here's the numbers behind why I'm saying what I'm saying, points should be rewarded regardless of their era/age. Walking Dead #1 may have a low print run (which I don't view as important as comics subbed because this is about the registry points for slabbed books), but the subbed numbers are astronimcal. Walking Dead Slabbed Numbers There's plenty of them to go around, not too rare imo.

 

Here's a look at the Batman 608 numbers, granted it's been out for longer, but I would argue that the Wolvie and ASM 678 are on track to end up with the same or much lower slabbed numbers after 10+ years.

 

The print run on the Wolverine #1 is low because as I understand it, retailers had to submit 50 covers to get one book, I think I heard the print run is under 500 (not 100% on that). Here are the numbers on that book, not enough to go around, warranting the price and imo a big jump in registry points.

 

And, finally the ASM 678 MJ Venom numbers, even less than the Wolverine, understandably so since it is a newer by a couple years, however the same points hold true, not enough supply to go around and it's rare enough like the Wolvie, that not too many will come out of the wood work, a lot did in surface in recent months and a lot of 9.6's came of it, but still low numbers.

 

Now I do understand your side of not giving 3000 points, okay and that is fine. I also think that the Batman 608 needs a big drop and the points for that should be about the same for the Wolvie and ASM 678, maybe 1500 points and add WD#1 to that 1500 point value too, I agree it warrants a bump as well.

 

I leave it to the CGC Gods to determine a common ground on these Modern Age Grails. (thumbs u

 

Jerome

[cheetah]

I've had this same discussion in the past in this forum. From a modern POV, it takes a ridiculous number of 9.8 slabs to rank in the top 100 in the Registry. Conversely, you can make the top five with just a handful of high grade books from the GA and SA. I don't really have a solution unless you want to have registry rank calculated by age so that modern collectors were judged solely against other modern collectors.

 

When you look at the prices involved, GA and moderns are in radically different worlds and having a full run of TWD competing against a full run of Detective Comics from the 30s and 40s doesn't really hold much relevance.

 

JMO

[Lookin4Newsstands]

I agree with Jerome and James on different points.

 

On one hand, modern books definitely don't compare to golden and silver age books point value wise or in value- that's a given.

 

On the other hand, many recent moderns in CGC 9.8 that sell for $75-150 still only get 24 points, which is a bit low, could be a little higher.

 

In regards to Batman 608 RRP, that is one of the most sought after modern books of the last 20 years. Jim Lee's Batman is very popular, his version of the costume was an inspiration (along with Frank Miller's version) for the DC movies next year. The RRP should continue to be sought after and retain if not increase in value, due to demand.

[Sensei Ryan]

Gemma,

I would like to officially make a request for a significant point increase on:

 

The Walking Dead #1

 

The book speaks for itself with its popularity among collectors. In the few years that I've been a member of the forums I've seen this book maintain it's steam and increase to a fairly steady average of around $2,100 in sales (both here, on eBay, and on the other comic sites such as Comiclink, comic connect, etc.). The last increase on this book occurred prior to the average sales rising from $1,200-ish to what it is now, at around $2,100. Providing eBay sales data is difficult because of the numerous Wizard World and Image Firsts reprints mixed in with the data but here is the link to some recent past sales:

 

Completed Sales Data on The Walking Dead #1 as of 8/4/15

 

Below are the end prices (taken from the above link) on actual recent eBay sales of The Walking Dead #1 in CGC 9.8 condition.

 

Sale on 7/30 - $1,999

Sale on 7/26 - $1,925

Sale on 7/21 - $2,199

Sale on 7/18 - $2,101

Sale on 7/6 - $2,125

Sale on 7/1 - $2,150

Sale on 6/30 - $1,999

Sale on 6/29 - $2,199

Sale on 6/21 - $1,925

Sale on 5/7 - $2,700

 

Average based on these 10 sales only = $2,132.20 (High being $2,700, low being $1,925). This is only from CGC 9.8 sales taken from eBay (this data is taken from 10 of the past 14 sales - the 4 being excluded because I couldn't find out their end sale prices as they were made via 'Best offer').

 

*Note - none of the above prices include shipping costs (in case anyone wanted to know).

 

Thank you for the consideration! I appreciate all you do for us registry set members!

 

Ryan

[Clouded9]

@MintyMint

 

to be honest, I would think a more fair point allocation to AV1 would be closer to 75.000 points.

 

It should be at par, or very close to, XMen1 allocation.

 

No disagreement here. I was going to suggest 70,000 but thought the 65,000 would be easier to approve is all...

 

++1 - I Agree that the Avengers #1 registry score should be on par with X-Men #1

[Sensei Ryan]

Gemma,

 

Can we get the scores for the Walking Dead #1 Wizard World Des Moines Color & Sketch issues to match the points for all the other Wizard World color & sketch #1 reprints in the Walking Dead Complete with Variants registry set? Thank you!

 

Ryan

[Kilimanjaro]

I was looking at the registry page for Large Feature series 1 # 20 and the entire page is blank. What does this mean and is this unusual ?

Sincerely. ggearloose123

[frostking70]

Gemma,

 

Not sure what thread this should go in, so I will try it here!

 

Could you please look at the:

 

Wolverine Through the Ages Set?

 

The list of comics is correct, but they should all be the variant issues instead of the regular.

 

Can you correct this set to have none of the regular issues and replace them with the variant issues?

 

All-New X-Men #12 Variant

Cable and X-Force #9 Variant

Captain America #8 Variant

Deadpool #11 Variant

Fantastic Four #9 Variant

Fearless Defenders #5 Variant

FF #8 Variant

Indestructible Hulk #9 Variant

Iron Man #11 Variant

Morbius: The Living Vampire #6 Variant

New Avengers #7 Variant

Savage Wolverine #6 Variant

Secret Avengers #5 Variant

Thor: God of Thunder #9 Variant

Thunderbolts #10 Variant

Uncanny X-Force #6 Variant

Uncanny X-Men #7 Variant

Wolverine & the X-Men #31 Variant

Wolverine #4 Variant

Young Avengers #6 Variant

 

regards

A

 

 

[Gemma]

This has been updated.

 

 

Also, the web team should have the scoring update error fixed in the next two weeks so I will be able to get back to updates soon!

[Gemma]

The first list is updated to indicate progress and I have sectioned off issues in a series/multiple sets as those are still causing major errors, the individual issues are giving less errors but are still time consuming so I am trying to squeeze a few in here and there while the site is being repaired. I'm hoping to make some sets by the end of the month, too, so hopefully the repairs will be finished by then!

[JMoses]

 

I'd like to request a minor score adjustment for the set Freedom Fighters:

 

Issue 1 in 9.8 earns 160 points -- that's probably fine. I'd say leave issue one alone.

 

But then:

 

Issues 2-9 in 9.8 earn 96 points, while issues 10-15 earn 112 points in the same grade.

 

Don't know why this is.

 

I ask that the scores for issues 2-9 across the board be brought up to the same level as that of issues 10-15 in order to make all the issues from #2 - #15 reflect the same score. There's really no reason to differentiate between the earlier issues (with the exception of the premier issue) and the later ones.

 

Thanks very much!

[Gotham Kid]

Hi Gemma,

 

if at all possible, Detective 39 warrants a point increase. There are only 32 universal copies graded with a single 9.0 as highest graded and a single 8.5 as second highest.

 

Second appearance of the Boy Wonder and sales figures that are not aligned with current point allocation make for a merited point increase.

 

Thank you for your consideration.

[Rosland]

[font:Courier New]Hi Gemma,

 

Strange Tales 89 (Fin Fang Foom: 1961) seems woefully under-pointed. There

has been 3 recent sales:

 

7.0 $2450 (588 points)

7.5 $3585 (700 points)

8.0 $4988 (1176 points)

 

which is about 4x current points. Can I lobby for at least a doubling?

 

Thanks,

 

[/font]

[mschmidt]

To make it even more authentic, I think you should telegraph your request directly to Gemma.

[chaddesden33]

Hi Gemma

 

Could you please review points values for three silver age Avengers.

 

#21 - incredibly difficult in top grades with only 17 copies graded at 9.4 or better. Last sales in these grades were three years ago, so GPA isn't that helpful. I would suggest a 50% uplift in registry points values.

 

#28 - long overdue a review. Again, very difficult in top grades with less than 20 copies at 9.4 or better and interest in this book and sale prices have shot up with this book having the first appearance of the Collector. I would suggest that points value is at least doubled.

 

#43 - first appearance of the Red Guardian and rarely offered for sale in top grade. Much more difficult to find than the issues around it. I would suggest this book has an uplift of circa 50%.

 

Thanks for considering.

 

Jon

[kthuluu]

Gemma:

 

Could you review the scores for the Walking Dead 116 3rd print? Only 25 of these were printed, and 19 have been certified by CGC. A CGC 9.8 SS is only worth 70 points, and you can't touch it for less than $4000.00.

 

As a comparison, CGC has certified 43 copies of the Walking Dead 35 error variant which is also very rare. But, a CGC 9.8 SS of this issue is worth 880 points.

 

Thanks,

Jay