Fantastic Four will historically be known as what killed the comic movie craze!

[Chris_Skeleton]

And Black Panther IS African. I wouldn't expect a Wakandan to be a white man.

 

:gossip:There are plenty of White People of African descent. Roughly 9% of the Population of Africa.

 

I guess I'll say it again:

 

I wouldn't expect a Wakandan to be a white man. Take a look at where Marvel traditionally places Wakanda on a map of Africa. None are places where you will expect to see whites as those countries that generally surround it have a racial makeup with less than 1% being non-black.

 

 

To everyone else, not trying to "race bait" or call anyone racist. If someone says something or does something that I feel sounds racist, I'm not gonna just sit back and not say anything for fear of "race baiting". Some of the comments here have sounded that way to me. That is my opinion.

 

They should've just made Sue black as well. I guess that would've been alright for everyone then? If all the Storms were black so they could be the same race and have the same family dynamic?

[Gatsby77]

So where's the uproar over Will Smith playing Deadshot?

 

I agree that the adoption storyline adds a bit of complication to the backstory, but nothing that literally two sentences didn't explain.

 

They selected an acclaimed and popular actor with a great track record to play Johnny as an impulsive hothead, and he nailed it.

 

The -script didn't allow him to have as much fun with it as Evans did 10 years ago, but that wasn't Jordan's fault in the least.

 

I certainly bought him as Johnny Storm a lot more than I bought Miles Teller as Reed Richards.

[Bosco685]

So where's the uproar over Will Smith playing Deadshot?

 

I agree that the adoption storyline adds a bit of complication to the backstory, but nothing that literally two sentences didn't explain.

 

They selected an acclaimed and popular actor with a great track record to play Johnny as an impulsive hothead, and he nailed it.

 

The -script didn't allow him to have as much fun with it as Evans did 10 years ago, but that wasn't Jordan's fault in the least.

 

I certainly bought him as Johnny Storm a lot more than I bought Miles Teller as Reed Richards.

 

If the storyline in this case had been well executed, Johnny could have been an Eskimo and this would have worked fine.

 

It sounds like from the general reviews the Johnny-Sue relationship didn't come across as believable.

[VintageComics]

They should've just made Sue black as well. I guess that would've been alright for everyone then? If all the Storms were black so they could be the same race and have the same family dynamic?

 

Will Smith being black didn't change the fundamental story.

 

Samuel Jackson being black didn't change the fundamental story.

 

Johnny Storm being black and Sue Storm being from Kosovo changed the fundamental story and introduced yet another dynamic that the story tellers had to deal with.

 

The end result is that the movie sucked over all.

 

It didn't suck because Johnny was black. It sucked because the studio made multiple changes to the FF and came out with a mess that wasn't cohesive.

 

Yes a black Johnny could have worked but in this case it didn't IMO.

 

And white people are victims of racism as well.

[Prince Namor]

An interesting article by Forbes on how the Fantastic Four movie bombing has Disney concerned about future Marvel movies.

 

Could Fantastic Four be the canary in the coal mine for Disney to use caution with making future superhero movies?

 

The Fantastic Four is Disney`s nightmare!

 

This article is missing the biggest issue - a lack of a long term plan for a franchise and then handing the reigns of any movie to a strung out director regardless of the genre. While I doubt the FF would be a blockbuster since it is a 3rd tier property, an Ant-Man like performance at the box office is doable with proper execution.

 

What tier was GOTG prior to their movie?

[miraclemet]

I dont wanna go through 23 pages, but did we make it to this point before someone wheeled out the "if Johnny Storm was white none of this would have happened" argument?

[Prince Namor]

So where's the uproar over Will Smith playing Deadshot?

 

Nobody reads DC Comics.

 

I agree that the adoption storyline adds a bit of complication to the backstory, but nothing that literally two sentences didn't explain.

 

But why? Why add that to the backstory? What purpose did it serve to the main story? None. So the answer is: Because they were trying to expand their audience. And no one likes a telegraphed sales pitch. Nobody wants to be marketed to.

 

They selected an acclaimed and popular actor with a great track record to play Johnny as an impulsive hothead, and he nailed it.

 

Is he really acclaimed? Maybe people are seeing something I'm not, but he seems like an adapt actor to me - and not everyone was happy with his performance...

 

I don't know... another young Hollywood actor that we're TOLD is great...with little to back it up and a resume that doesn't include a movie yet to have broken $65MIL at the box office....

 

The -script didn't allow him to have as much fun with it as Evans did 10 years ago, but that wasn't Jordan's fault in the least.

 

You're right, so you have a bad -script, an over hyped actor, and a racial set up that's unnecessary to the story.

 

How did no one see this coming?

 

Oh wait, I DID.

 

I certainly bought him as Johnny Storm a lot more than I bought Miles Teller as Reed Richards.

 

I agree with that. Another over hyped actor we're told is 'great'.

 

Fox should've had some balls, and made the whole team black, added some action, called it anything BUT the Fantastic Four, and paid for the whole thing with a fraction of the money they'd have made selling the FF rights back to Marvel.

 

I'd have went to see that.

[fantastic_four]

I dont wanna go through 23 pages, but did we make it to this point before someone wheeled out the "if Johnny Storm was white none of this would have happened" argument?

 

No, they've been complaining about it non-stop for a year and a half.

[paperheart]

An interesting article by Forbes on how the Fantastic Four movie bombing has Disney concerned about future Marvel movies.

 

Could Fantastic Four be the canary in the coal mine for Disney to use caution with making future superhero movies?

 

The Fantastic Four is Disney`s nightmare!

 

This article is missing the biggest issue - a lack of a long term plan for a franchise and then handing the reigns of any movie to a strung out director regardless of the genre. While I doubt the FF would be a blockbuster since it is a 3rd tier property, an Ant-Man like performance at the box office is doable with proper execution.

 

What tier was GOTG prior to their movie?

 

[Cat-Man_America]

They should've just made Sue black as well. I guess that would've been alright for everyone then? If all the Storms were black so they could be the same race and have the same family dynamic?

 

Will Smith being black didn't change the fundamental story.

 

Samuel Jackson being black didn't change the fundamental story.

 

Johnny Storm being black and Sue Storm being from Kosovo changed the fundamental story and introduced yet another dynamic that the story tellers had to deal with.

 

The end result is that the movie sucked over all.

 

It didn't suck because Johnny was black. It sucked because the studio made multiple changes to the FF and came out with a mess that wasn't cohesive.

 

Yes a black Johnny could have worked but in this case it didn't IMO.

 

And white people are victims of racism as well.

 

Another well stated POV.

 

So where's the uproar over Will Smith playing Deadshot?

 

I agree that the adoption storyline adds a bit of complication to the backstory, but nothing that literally two sentences didn't explain.

 

They selected an acclaimed and popular actor with a great track record to play Johnny as an impulsive hothead, and he nailed it.

 

The -script didn't allow him to have as much fun with it as Evans did 10 years ago, but that wasn't Jordan's fault in the least.

 

I certainly bought him as Johnny Storm a lot more than I bought Miles Teller as Reed Richards.

 

If the storyline in this case had been well executed, Johnny could have been an Eskimo and this would have worked fine.

 

It sounds like from the general reviews the Johnny-Sue relationship didn't come across as believable.

 

Exactly, totally unbelievable. The Rotten Tomatoes critical consensus and poor BO are all the evidence needed.

 

I doubt that anything will change Gatsby or Chris's minds because they've chosen the path of race baiting. They're apparently trying to embroil the thread in an off topic controversy to get it shut down. The real issue is miscasting, not racial diversity.

 

 

 

 

[VintageComics]

An interesting article by Forbes on how the Fantastic Four movie bombing has Disney concerned about future Marvel movies.

 

Could Fantastic Four be the canary in the coal mine for Disney to use caution with making future superhero movies?

 

The Fantastic Four is Disney`s nightmare!

 

This article is missing the biggest issue - a lack of a long term plan for a franchise and then handing the reigns of any movie to a strung out director regardless of the genre. While I doubt the FF would be a blockbuster since it is a 3rd tier property, an Ant-Man like performance at the box office is doable with proper execution.

 

What tier was GOTG prior to their movie?

 

 

They were bird cage liner tier before the movie.

[Chris_Skeleton]

 

Exactly, totally unbelievable. The Rotten Tomatoes critical consensus and poor BO are all the evidence needed.

 

I doubt that anything will change Gatsby or Chris's minds because they've chosen the path of race baiting. They're apparently trying to embroil the thread in an off topic controversy to get it shut down. The real issue is miscasting, not racial diversity.

 

That is exactly my point. Everything wrong with this movie does not stem from the fact Johnny is black like many here have been blaming it on. No race baiting about it.

 

And the "Johnny is supposed to be white" comments were going on long before I posted here.

 

I never once flat out called anyone racist. I said many people's comments have come off as sounding borderline racist, but apparently you can come on here and start accusing others of things (race baiting) and tell us what path we have chosen as if you know. Whatever you say, buddy

[miraclemet]

So where's the uproar over Will Smith playing Deadshot?

 

Nobody reads DC Comics.

 

I agree that the adoption storyline adds a bit of complication to the backstory, but nothing that literally two sentences didn't explain.

 

But why? Why add that to the backstory? What purpose did it serve to the main story? None. So the answer is: Because they were trying to expand their audience. And no one likes a telegraphed sales pitch. Nobody wants to be marketed to.

 

They selected an acclaimed and popular actor with a great track record to play Johnny as an impulsive hothead, and he nailed it.

 

Is he really acclaimed? Maybe people are seeing something I'm not, but he seems like an adapt actor to me - and not everyone was happy with his performance...

 

I don't know... another young Hollywood actor that we're TOLD is great...with little to back it up and a resume that doesn't include a movie yet to have broken $65MIL at the box office....

 

The -script didn't allow him to have as much fun with it as Evans did 10 years ago, but that wasn't Jordan's fault in the least.

 

You're right, so you have a bad -script, an over hyped actor, and a racial set up that's unnecessary to the story.

 

How did no one see this coming?

 

Oh wait, I DID.

 

I certainly bought him as Johnny Storm a lot more than I bought Miles Teller as Reed Richards.

 

I agree with that. Another over hyped actor we're told is 'great'.

 

Fox should've had some balls, and made the whole team black, added some action, called it anything BUT the Fantastic Four, and paid for the whole thing with a fraction of the money they'd have made selling the FF rights back to Marvel.

 

I'd have went to see that.

 

Writing from moblie so I might be brief.

 

I think we'd all agree one of the all time themes of F4 is family. And not just the one you are born into, but also the ones you choose. I think the adoption layer adds to that idea.

 

Honestly race didnt even register on my radar as a theme beyond the adoption explanation/ hows he your dad eyebrowraise.

 

Jordan does have some acclaim (though not based on box office reciepts,but are you really equating good acting to money?) Many critics thought he was getring an oscar nomination for Fruitville. He was a well recieved actor on two renownded Tv shows; The Wire and Friday Night Lights. So yes he probably came in with equal cache as Teller.

 

I dont think good actors (teller, and others have been great elsewhere) can overcome bad scripts, bad directors, and poor editors.

[Chip Cataldo]

The point is that it's a change that DIDN'T NEED TO BE MADE, just like nearly all of the other changes they made when producing this movie.

[Doktor]

It seems that people have lost the ability to delineate between racial & racist. Racial ≠ racist. It seems as though that any time a racial discussion begins, racist accusations quickly get bandied about.

[VintageComics]

I'm criticizing Sue being adopted from Kosovo. Is that racist?

[Bosco685]

The point is that it's a change that DIDN'T NEED TO BE MADE, just like nearly all of the other changes they made when producing this movie.

 

But if the Impossible Man had shown up as a woman, it would have been spectacular.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chip Cataldo]

Oooh, you deserve a pimp-slap for that one!

[miraclemet]

The point is that it's a change that DIDN'T NEED TO BE MADE, just like nearly all of the other changes they made when producing this movie.

 

Im assuming you're referring to Johnny being cast as an African-american.

 

If in the auditions MBJ performed as the best actor for the job, would you have preferred the role went to a less skilled actor who fit the original characters race? You know for the reason that its a change the doesnt NEED to be made, so leave everything the same?

 

it didnt matter what race Johnny Storm was, or if Sue was adopted, those points (which were so incidental) were nothing compared to the horror that was the -script. And it's not even the plot points, it's more intrinsic, its the pacing, the tone, the dialogue... those are building blocks that the plot gets built on top of and they were horrible.

[VintageComics]

it didnt matter what race Johnny Storm was, or if Sue was adopted, those points (which were so incidental) were nothing compared to the horror that was the -script. And it's not even the plot points, it's more intrinsic, its the pacing, the tone, the dialogue... those are building blocks that the plot gets built on top of and they were horrible.

 

Let's put aside that Johnny was African American and just focus on the fact that Sue was adopted.

 

Why? Why throw that twist in there? What was it's purpose? Why diverge from the source material on that point? What possible purpose did it serve?

 

Any work of art is like a woven tapestry. You can't tug on one end without changing a balance or creating a problem somewhere else because it's all connected. Same with a movie - when you add a detail it affects the feel of the whole movie in some way.

 

The fact that the final tapestry sucked when it should have rocked showed that whoever oversaw this film had no idea what they were doing. And making Sue adopted was just one piece of the whole puzzle.

 

But to me it speaks volumes about how lost whoever was in charge of this movie actually was.