a Metropolis vs. CGC grading thread

[Bomber-Bob]

Not to defend or disparage anyone, but the flaw in this discussion is assuming that CGC's grading is 100% accurate. CGC provides an opinion which, while informed, is still only an opinion. I disagree with CGC grades commonly, and I don't feel terribly confident buying CGC-graded books sight unseen (not only due to grading, but also due to certain defects and appeal). CGC is one of the few facilities that could say they have seen as many GA/SA books as people like Harley or Metropolis have, yet we wouldn't likely create a thread saying "*random dealer* vs Metropolis/Harley grading thread", primarily because Harley and Metropolis provide an opinion on grade as well. What validity is it that CGC offers over any other informed opinion? They even acknowledge that their grading isn't a certainty, so why do we treat it as such?

 

While I totally agree with you, unfortunately, the CGC grade provides the valuation upon resale, not the dealer grade. If you paid for a higher grade than the CGC grade, you lost money.

[buttock]

Not to defend or disparage anyone, but the flaw in this discussion is assuming that CGC's grading is 100% accurate. CGC provides an opinion which, while informed, is still only an opinion. I disagree with CGC grades commonly, and I don't feel terribly confident buying CGC-graded books sight unseen (not only due to grading, but also due to certain defects and appeal). CGC is one of the few facilities that could say they have seen as many GA/SA books as people like Harley or Metropolis have, yet we wouldn't likely create a thread saying "*random dealer* vs Metropolis/Harley grading thread", primarily because Harley and Metropolis provide an opinion on grade as well. What validity is it that CGC offers over any other informed opinion? They even acknowledge that their grading isn't a certainty, so why do we treat it as such?

 

While I totally agree with you, unfortunately, the CGC grade provides the valuation upon resale, not the dealer grade. If you paid for a higher grade than the CGC grade, you lost money.

 

Yes, one of the great flaws in the market.

[Cat-Man_America]

Not to defend or disparage anyone, but the flaw in this discussion is assuming that CGC's grading is 100% accurate. CGC provides an opinion which, while informed, is still only an opinion. I disagree with CGC grades commonly, and I don't feel terribly confident buying CGC-graded books sight unseen (not only due to grading, but also due to certain defects and appeal). CGC is one of the few facilities that could say they have seen as many GA/SA books as people like Harley or Metropolis have, yet we wouldn't likely create a thread saying "*random dealer* vs Metropolis/Harley grading thread", primarily because Harley and Metropolis provide an opinion on grade as well. What validity is it that CGC offers over any other informed opinion? They even acknowledge that their grading isn't a certainty, so why do we treat it as such?

 

While I totally agree with you, unfortunately, the CGC grade provides the valuation upon resale, not the dealer grade. If you paid for a higher grade than the CGC grade, you lost money.

 

 

[adamstrange]

the flaw in this discussion is assuming that CGC's grading is 100% accurate

They are 100% accurate in assigning the grade they want to assign.

[comixcroz]

Not to defend or disparage anyone, but the flaw in this discussion is assuming that CGC's grading is 100% accurate. CGC provides an opinion which, while informed, is still only an opinion. I disagree with CGC grades commonly, and I don't feel terribly confident buying CGC-graded books sight unseen (not only due to grading, but also due to certain defects and appeal). CGC is one of the few facilities that could say they have seen as many GA/SA books as people like Harley or Metropolis have, yet we wouldn't likely create a thread saying "*random dealer* vs Metropolis/Harley grading thread", primarily because Harley and Metropolis provide an opinion on grade as well. What validity is it that CGC offers over any other informed opinion? They even acknowledge that their grading isn't a certainty, so why do we treat it as such?

 

While I totally agree with you, unfortunately, the CGC grade provides the valuation upon resale, not the dealer grade. If you paid for a higher grade than the CGC grade, you lost money.

 

The other point would be that CGC is a third party without financial interest in what grade is assigned. Dealers are selling the same books they are grading, so obviously buyers are going to feel more comfortable with CGC's opinion over someone that will directly benefit from a higher grade.

 

[buttock]

the flaw in this discussion is assuming that CGC's grading is 100% accurate

They are 100% accurate in assigning the grade they want to assign.

 

Probably more like 99.999% accurate. We've all seen those QC oopsies!

[buttock]

Not to defend or disparage anyone, but the flaw in this discussion is assuming that CGC's grading is 100% accurate. CGC provides an opinion which, while informed, is still only an opinion. I disagree with CGC grades commonly, and I don't feel terribly confident buying CGC-graded books sight unseen (not only due to grading, but also due to certain defects and appeal). CGC is one of the few facilities that could say they have seen as many GA/SA books as people like Harley or Metropolis have, yet we wouldn't likely create a thread saying "*random dealer* vs Metropolis/Harley grading thread", primarily because Harley and Metropolis provide an opinion on grade as well. What validity is it that CGC offers over any other informed opinion? They even acknowledge that their grading isn't a certainty, so why do we treat it as such?

 

While I totally agree with you, unfortunately, the CGC grade provides the valuation upon resale, not the dealer grade. If you paid for a higher grade than the CGC grade, you lost money.

 

The other point would be that CGC is a third party without financial interest in what grade is assigned. Dealers are selling the same books they are grading, so obviously buyers are going to feel more comfortable with CGC's opinion over someone that will directly benefit from a higher grade.

 

CGC has a financial interest in assigning grades. If they were strict, loose, or inaccurate they would lose revenue. Their financial interest isn't as directly tied to the book, but it's not absent either.

[jimbo_707]

A year or two ago, I purchased a raw copy of Strange Mysteries 8 that was listed on the CConnect site as a VF/NM. When I got it, I found that the back cover had an ink transfer all over the back cover. There was actually enough detail that I could recognize it as the cover of Chilling Tales #13.

 

 

I don't know how CGC would treat a defect like that, but considering how much they take off for tiny stains, I have to believe it would be well below 9.0.

 

I returned the book, but I'm still irritated about it because I had to pay shipping both ways. (I normally ship books with full insurance, so the return shipping was close to $20.)

[Cat-Man_America]

 

It seems less like a stain than a storage issue, sorta like dust shadows, and those can grade all the way up to 9.4, possibly higher.

 

Heck, I would've charged you for the second cover imprint as a bonus.

[jimbo_707]

It seems less like a stain than a storage issue, sorta like dust shadows, and those can grade all the way up to 9.4, possibly higher.

 

Heck, I would've charged you for the second cover imprint as a bonus.

It's still available!

 

http://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?id=472911

 

Maybe someone will snatch it up now as a outside-affiliatelinksnotallowed

[cheetah]

I think they have an elite clientele who they treat properly, hence the testimony from DavidMerryweather above. If you spend a lot of money with them, you will get treated properly. If you are just an occasional customer, well, no comment.

 

 

I think their business model is more ego driven than anything else.

 

Their grading is fine but you have to be willing to return the book if the overlook any of their typical blind spots. I never bought a book with rusty staples but I can see that being another defect they would deduct less for than CGC.

[Cat-Man_America]

I think they have an elite clientele who they treat properly, hence the testimony from DavidMerryweather above. If you spend a lot of money with them, you will get treated properly. If you are just an occasional customer, well, no comment.

 

 

I think their business model is more ego driven than anything else.

 

Their grading is fine but you have to be willing to return the book if the overlook any of their typical blind spots. I never bought a book with rusty staples but I can see that being another defect they would deduct less for than CGC.

 

You mean elite clientele don't count anymore?

 

[Mio]

My experiences that I remember:

 

Metro 8.5

CGC 7.5

 

Metro 7.5

CGC after press 8.5 trimmed

 

Metro 8.0

CGC 7.0

CGC 8.5 after press

 

Metro 7.0 "glossy"

CGC 7.5 trimmed

 

Metro 8.5

CGC 8.5

[Sqeggs]

My experiences that I remember:

 

Metro 8.5

CGC 7.5

 

Metro 7.5

CGC after press 8.5 trimmed

 

Metro 8.0

CGC 7.0

CGC 8.5 after press

 

Metro 7.0 "glossy"

CGC 7.5 trimmed

 

Metro 8.5

CGC 8.5

 

Were you able to get refunds from Metro on the books that came back trimmed?

[jimbo_707]

My experiences that I remember:

 

Metro 8.5

CGC 7.5

 

Metro 7.5

CGC after press 8.5 trimmed

 

Metro 8.0

CGC 7.0

CGC 8.5 after press

 

Metro 7.0 "glossy"

CGC 7.5 trimmed

 

Metro 8.5

CGC 8.5

Metro missed trimming twice in a sample of five books? That's pretty disturbing.

[Mio]

My experiences that I remember:

 

Metro 8.5

CGC 7.5

 

Metro 7.5

CGC after press 8.5 trimmed

 

Metro 8.0

CGC 7.0

CGC 8.5 after press

 

Metro 7.0 "glossy"

CGC 7.5 trimmed

 

Metro 8.5

CGC 8.5

Metro missed trimming twice in a sample of five books? That's pretty disturbing. [/

quote]

 

Yep, not an encouraging resto rate. This is one of the reasons I no longer buy raw there. Better luck with eBay, strangely. In fairness, I did get a refund on one book, but ate shipping and slabbing costs to some degree if I recall correctly. I liked the other book and still have it... But I did not get an offer of a refund on it (though V did offer to buy it back).

[Badger]

Why wouldn't a seller spend a small amount of money compared to the value of the book to verify there wasn't anything done to it? That just doesn't smell right to me. I am sure that you, and many others on this board, would have happily paid the grading fee if you were going to buy the book especially for such a grail like a Tec 27. If the buyer was told no restoration(or whatever the case may be) on a 6 figure book, then pony up the few grand to verify it to prove it to them.

 

I bought my All Select #1 from Metro raw at last years SDCC. They allowed me to go page by page through the book and Vincent reviewed it, very quickly, in my presence. Vincent, Frank (Metro employee), and I all agreed that it was a 7.5 as it sat. Its main problem was staple tears. It saved me a couple of grand buying it raw and I felt confident in my grading skills to purchase it raw. I only got it graded because my wife threatened to kill me if I didn't. Anyway it came back from CGC unrestored 7.5 with off-white to white pages. I thought the page quality was actually higher but I won't quibble.

 

Dealers do not always get high end books graded to either "leave some meat on the bone" for the buyer or because inventory turnover can be more important than squeaking out every thin dime from a book. I worked for a comic store in the 90s whose attitude was to sell in bulk at 20 to 40% off. By doing this they always knew they could churn inventory quickly and that they always had a ready supply of customers for pretty much anything they got in. Our annual sale was a madhouse.

 

Through hard experience I do not trust dealers who will never ever use third party grading; however, not everything in a dealers inventory has to be third-party graded if the dealer is aiming for an educated clientele who can accurately grade for themselves.

 

 

Not trying to be argumentative here; just looking for information. Was the AS 1 listed on their site (or at their booth, if it wasn't initially on their site) as a 7.5?

I don't remember if it was on their site but it was at their SDCC booth as a 7.5.

[zosocane]

I got a PLOD on a raw book that Metro missed a tear seal on. I did the CGC submission a few years after the purchase. I still had the Metro mylar with the sticker, and Metro stepped up to the plate and made me whole. I don't recall if they covered my return shipping, but they didn't claim they couldn't help me because of the passage of time. They're not a perfect dealer, but my scores of experiences with them is that they're among the best. Recently I had HA miss a completely detached centerfold on a raw GA book and they offered a $50 credit or send the book back for a complete refund. Yes, missed resto and missed defects happen.

 

Foolkiller each year does his handy-dandy annual top 10 dealer review, and under his rankings Metro and HA each year go back-and-forth for 1st and 2nd place. I agree.

[Badger]

I got a PLOD on a raw book that Metro missed a tear seal on. I did the CGC submission a few years after the purchase. I still had the Metro mylar with the sticker, and Metro stepped up to the plate and made me whole. I don't recall if they covered my return shipping, but they didn't claim they couldn't help me because of the passage of time. They're not a perfect dealer, but my scores of experiences with them is that they're among the best. Recently I had HA miss a completely detached centerfold on a raw GA book and they offered a $50 credit or send the book back for a complete refund. Yes, missed resto and missed defects happen.

 

Foolkiller each year does his handy-dandy annual top 10 dealer review, and under his rankings Metro and HA each year go back-and-forth for 1st and 2nd place. I agree.

This

[Cat-Man_America]

I got a PLOD on a raw book that Metro missed a tear seal on. I did the CGC submission a few years after the purchase. I still had the Metro mylar with the sticker, and Metro stepped up to the plate and made me whole. I don't recall if they covered my return shipping, but they didn't claim they couldn't help me because of the passage of time. They're not a perfect dealer, but my scores of experiences with them is that they're among the best. Recently I had HA miss a completely detached centerfold on a raw GA book and they offered a $50 credit or send the book back for a complete refund. Yes, missed resto and missed defects happen.

 

Foolkiller each year does his handy-dandy annual top 10 dealer review, and under his rankings Metro and HA each year go back-and-forth for 1st and 2nd place. I agree.

This

 

(thumbs u