What's up with Stan Lee?

[jcjames]

No pictures during regular signing. Hold camera and you'll get a big hand up.

 

I'm toying with the idea of having a chest-mounted Go-Pro rig next time. Although last time at Comikaze, Max stood squarely in front of Stan so you couldn't even get a straight-on face-to-face. You give your book to handler #1, he slides it to Max. Max points to where Stan should sign and Stan signs then Max slides it to handler #2 while you walk around Max to get your book. At least that's my experience last year.

 

You can however pay for a photo-shoot with him where you line up cattle-style again, walk in to a curtained area, say hello to Stan who's sitting there on a tall chair waiting for you. You stand next to him, look up at the camera and get your picture taken, say thank you and then shuffle out the other side. That was much less stressful and hurried it seemed than the signing event, IMO.

[botolo]

I am glad I was able to see Stan many years ago in Italy (roughly 20 years ago), at Lucca Comics and spend few seconds chatting with him. He was the guest of honor of the Italian licensee of Marvel. Many people were in line waiting, but there was no special rule.

 

When my time was up, I walked up in front of him, I gave him a special Spider-Man volume printed by the Italian licensee, with this wonderful cover:

 

http://westcoastavengers.tumblr.com/post/61433819815/peter-parker-mary-jane-wedding-invitation-by

 

He took the book, I was completely star-struck. I looked at him and with my very thick Italian accent (which, I hope, is better now that I live in the US), I told him:

 

"Stan, I love you!"

 

He looked back at me, he smiled (and right there, I understood why he was called "The Smilin'"), and he told me:

 

"I love you too"

 

I walked away, happy as someone who just won the lottery.

[Captain Canuck]

You fail to mention the fact that Stan Lee also gets paid upfront to attend these shows, he definitely doesn't do it for free. He double dips which he is entitled to do, but don't think his time isn't compensated for in multiple ways. He makes cash in 3 ways per each con, appearance fee, signing fee and private signings.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Not sure why you deleted all your posts....?

 

 

Your definition of slice of time seems all too focused on one person and that is clearly not Stan Lee.

 

Well of course. I'm the one paying for the 5 seconds of Stan's time. Stan isn't paying me. Why would I expect to get shortchanged, especially when I've paid 21 times for the same experience that others who paid for a single signature get?

 

He is the one who has to travel to all these shows, sit for hours signing item after item, some times spending an entire weekend at some comic con no where near where he lives. Tell me how this is not a slice of his time? It isn't all boiled down to that $100 per book signing that takes him seconds. It is the full spectrum involved of being at that table for all those people. How long does it take you to sign something? That is what you paid for-- plain and simple. And YES-- we agree that the whole thing is silly and less than even the most casual of interactions.

 

Oh come on, now. You're being a little silly. Stan doesn't do anything that Stan doesn't want to do. He is compensated 12 ways from Sunday (and more power to him!) but it is certainly not some grand burden to sit there "for hours" signing item after item. And Stan has zero qualms (nor should he) about limiting those "hours."

 

I would love to be in that position. Tell me where to sign up.

 

What happens in the signing interaction event versus what someone is hoping to happen is not the point.

 

I don't understand how this is related to the discussion. I don't recall talking about unmet expectations, only what is.

 

Yeah-- you will probably feel like a cattle call. But the point is that people are willing to pay that money to be near the guy. I have no interest in this whole process. If it doesn't happen organically, I feel it devalues it-- FOR ME--- and again, that is the key point. You can tell some people until you are blue in the face that something is not going to be worth it but they will still pony up the cash and see for themselves. And even if it is as fast and barely a moment for the one person -- some of them will still coming away thinking it was great (kind of sounds silly-- but it's their money so bless their hearts). From Stan's end-- he gets another pile of cash in exchange for that time he puts in being there scribbling on peoples stuff.

 

And one more point about using the word "flippers". You seem to think I assume this book will get sold or put on sale immediately.

 

No, and I don't know where you got that impression.

 

I would surmise that these books are being hoarded by people who plan to sell them when they appreciate in value. I doubt seriously someone having the same book signed 100 times or more is doing so because they want those copies for themselves.

 

Well, 1. why not? I have 100+ copies of books that I own, just because I like owning 100+ copies. Maybe they'll go up in value. Maybe they won't. I'm ok either way, and...

 

2. People aren't getting 100 copies of the same book signed.

 

They are making an investment in something they think will at some point be worth it. That Stan is now charging even more than ever is actually making them happy as the books they already own are more costly to obtain. If I had 500 Stan Lee SS books in a vault that I paid Stan Lee the bargain price of say $40 each to sign-- I would be thrilled he raised his price.

 

That might appear reasonable on paper, but it doesn't work in the real world. You cannot raise the cost of goods, and then pass them on to the consumer without a mighty good reason to do so.

 

The market does not care what it costs to acquire the item. They only care about what they, and the market around them, are willing to pay.

 

So, you can tell them market "hey...Stan Lee now charges $100 for his signature, so I have to add that to the cost of the item", they will laugh at you, and you will have hundreds and thousands of items sell for less than cost, because the market doesn't value Stan's signature as highly as Stan (read: Max) does.

 

I have multiple Stan Lee SS books for sale right now, and there's virtually no interest in any of it. And when there is interest, it's at or near what an UNSIGNED copy sells for. The market doesn't give a rip what Stan is charging.

 

The problem here seems to be we are talking about two different things. Much of what you said I agree with entirely. Some of it seems to go off on a tangent I had not even considered relevant to the experience. The only real part we seem to disagree about is the fairness of the whole thing. No one said it was fair. Few things are in life imo.

 

True. I'm not talking about what's fair, either. I'm talking about market balance.

 

I get the impression you have a problem with the cash grab attitude of creators who should somehow feel grateful and give back to their fans freely because they got paid for creating already. I would argue they got paid for their time to create and what they are doing at a comic con is new work--- slightly different than pure creation but paid to interact (at varying levels) with their fans. I don't claim to care who is a "true fan" or think that should make a bit of difference to the poor guy sitting at that booth all day. Some do it for free-- others find it less enjoyable and charge for their new time spent on behalf of fans. If you have a three item limit you will sign for free or require a purchase from your booth to get those three signatures-- that seems reasonable to me. If you show up with a stack of books to sign-- it seems reasonable to charge for that service.

 

Of course, all of which I've said on this subject myself. You can charge whatever you want...if Stan wants to charge $10,000 for his signature, he is free to do so.

 

However...if it turns off a lot of people, and creates anger, frustration, bitterness, and resentment in the long run....how wise is it?

 

There is a balance, and it isn't being found at the moment.

 

Whether they are trying to get some chunk of a later sale based on improved value with that signature doesn't have to be the reason. Now Neal Adams-- he is not the typical guy and neither is Stan Lee. They are charging far beyond reasonable rates but the point is that people will pay them or they don't get what they want. Not exactly fan friendly but it is their time and what they value it at. That people pay them is their business -- the same as people who pay Chuck at Mile High his out of touch with reality prices. With the exception being that you can just go to another Comic supplier but good luck finding another Adams or Lee.

 

Sucks but people are still lining up and lining pockets. It helps if you have no need for their services in general.

 

The law of diminishing returns is always in effect. There is a balance, and creators are not finding that balance.

 

Eventually, the people who want to pay Stan Lee $100 for his signature will stop. Maybe not before he dies, but it will happen. Neal Adams has discovered this himself. If Stan charged $5 a sig, he'd get a lot of people. If he charged $500 a sig, he'd get a lot less people, but he'd probably get *somebody*. Just because you can get *somebody* doesn't mean it's the best way to go about it.

 

The way to do business is to set a price that accommodates the most amount of customers, while staying in line with your own goals.

 

If Neal wants to sit around all day, doing nothing (and he has, at multiple shows this year) because he's priced himself out of the market, he's free to do that. But if he wants to make his fans..."true" or not...happy, he will find a balance.

 

Balance is the key.

[Captain Canuck]

Frank Miller could temporarily command the prices that Stan is charging because he rarely signs.

[makeminemego]

Stan's earned the right to charge what he wants for his time, the same as the customers have the right to say "pass" if they like. For better or worse, I suppose.

 

I'm glad I had Stan sign my convention badge at SDCC in the early 1990's. When it was free.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Frank Miller could temporarily command the prices that Stan is charging because he rarely signs.

 

Frank could charge $200/sig at this point, and people would pay for it, because they are worried that they might not have a chance to do so soon....

[Mr 9.8]

Frank Miller could temporarily command the prices that Stan is charging because he rarely signs.

How much does Frank charge?

[Captain Canuck]

Frank Miller could temporarily command the prices that Stan is charging because he rarely signs.

How much does Frank charge?

He doesn't as of yet, it is a raffle system, but I assume in future he will charge several hundred to a select few and that is it.

[valiantman]

The balance for what to charge is easy to debate. If the goal is to provide as many customers as possible with product, then a low price ensures a long line waiting to pay. But, it would require more work. If Stan Lee can make the same amount of money by charging $100 per signature for two hours of work that he could make by charging $50 per signature for four hours of work... why would Stan do four hours of work? If he begins charging $200 per signature for one hour, he's even "better off" in terms of his time.

 

Meeting Stan Lee, even staring at the top of his head for 10 seconds while he signs your book is part of the experience that costs $100. When a Stan Lee signed book is resold (after Signature Series), you get the whole signature, but you get zero of the "I had him sign my book" experience. Someone else experienced "meeting" Stan Lee, someone else selected the comic from their collection/inventory, so Stan didn't sign "your" (childhood) comic... he signed a comic that can be purchased after the fact. Someone else submitted to CGC and received whatever grade the book gets... which might be lower than the buyer would have liked (which lowers their bid).

 

All those "someone else did it" factors can add up when it comes to how much a buyer will pay for Stan Lee Signature Series. It should not be surprising if some Signature Series books signed by Stan Lee don't sell for the cost of the Stan Lee signature plus the CGC slabbing.

[Captain Canuck]

The balance for what to charge is easy to debate. If the goal is to provide as many customers as possible with product, then a low price ensures a long line waiting to pay. But, it would require more work. If Stan Lee can make the same amount of money by charging $100 per signature for two hours of work that he could make by charging $50 per signature for four hours of work... why would Stan do four hours of work? If he begins charging $200 per signature for one hour, he's even "better off" in terms of his time.

 

Meeting Stan Lee, even staring at the top of his head for 10 seconds while he signs your book is part of the experience that costs $100. When a Stan Lee signed book is resold (after Signature Series), you get the whole signature, but you get zero of the "I had him sign my book" experience. Someone else experienced "meeting" Stan Lee, someone else selected the comic from their collection/inventory, so Stan didn't sign "your" (childhood) comic... he signed a comic that can be purchased after the fact. Someone else submitted to CGC and received whatever grade the book gets... which might be lower than the buyer would have liked (which lowers their bid).

 

All those "someone else did it" factors can add up when it comes to how much a buyer will pay for Stan Lee Signature Series. It should not be surprising if some Signature Series books signed by Stan Lee don't sell for the cost of the Stan Lee signature plus the CGC slabbing.

 

By your logic and which I agree, there is an over evaluation of Stan Lee signed objects, which can't be justified by the signature alone and which will eventually result in a correction in the market. Simply put, if you want a Stan Lee signature for the experience, go for it, but don't automatically expect a return in your investment for having a book signed by him, which has probably been signed 1000 of times by him over the years. Case in point Stan has signed well over 1000 of the modern ASM 1's, if people can't purchase it for a reasonable price (that's subjective), then they will wait until another copy becomes available at a price point they think is reasonable, because they know there are plenty of copies too choose from. The seller also needs to keep that in mind when selling a mass produced multi signed popular comic book.

[lou_fine]

there are too many Stan Lee CGC SS out there... I don't need mine to be one of several thousands.

 

 

It's all speculation as to what his signature might be worth in the future. .

 

I tend to think that when Stan is no longer signing books that people will value his signature more still.

 

 

If you are basing any of your retirement plans on selling off Stan Lee SS books, I would suggest that you give it a little bit more thought.

 

Although the above original poster is correct from his line of thinking, I would say that his estimated count is far too low. By the time it's all said and done, there will be hundreds of thousands of Stan Lee signed books out there, albeit not all of them will be certified as such. After all, he has been doing this for the last 50+ years or so.

[lou_fine]

 

Stan Lee is NOT offering a slice of his time. When you are in line, you are herded through by Max (his handler), and you get, perhaps, 5 seconds of face time. I got 21 books signed at Comikaze last year (witness), and paid $1260 for the sigs...and the books were roughly handled, and I was swiftly told to "move along." For $1260, you would think I would get a little more than a handshake, but no, that's not how it works. Move along, keep it moving, move move move.

 

 

Any idea if Stan gets to pocket all of this money for himself or does the Con get a cut of it for sponsoring him and paying for his appearance fee?

 

Not a bad haul if he gets the whole kit and kaboodle for only a few hours work.

[Lethal_Collector]

I've met Stan 4 times now and he still doesn't recognize me.

 

When Stan's sig were heating up about 5-6 years ago I got on board and got a few sigs because I figured he was in his late 80's and would only sign books for the next couple years, then retire on a beach or whatever.

 

After 3 years and no signs of slowing down and reaping big profit, I sold all my Stan sigs (FF48, Xmen 1, AF15, all low-mid grade) while the gettin' was good (enough for me anyway). I don't really see his sig as a rarity that enhances a book like it did a few years ago. It's just far too common-place now and now with his sig on books that don't matter, it really waters down the value and 'wow' factor.

 

So now, I hope he does what he wants with his life. If that means attending shows, cool (thumbs u

 

 

Jerome

[Psithyrus]

I got to meet him. It was a book I picked (the ASM #700 variant with all of the creators names on it). I got the book back from CGC in August (I had it signed at the end of May), and I smiled as soon as I removed it from the shipping box. It was exactly what I wanted, and happened to come back a 9.8, as well, which was a bonus. I'll keep that book as long as I can.

 

 

 

[Tony S]

 

It's all speculation as to what his signature might be worth in the future. .

 

I tend to think that when Stan is no longer signing books that people will value his signature more still.

 

 

If you are basing any of your retirement plans on selling off Stan Lee SS books, I would suggest that you give it a little bit more thought.

 

I'm already retired from the regular job. Comics is all I do these days. I could probably do this until I die if I choose - but do not believe I will need to. So the retirement is taken care of.

 

You edit my quote for effect however. I call foul What I said was

 

So IDK - I tend to think that when Stan is no longer signing books that people will value his signature more still. There isn't anyone else at his level in the hobby. Steve Ditko COULD be if he was interested in signing - but he's not. But if the price doesn't go up, that's OK too. I still enjoy them

 

Emphasis added by me. Also I mentioned in earlier posts that I've made a point of only getting signed vintage material Stan actually worked on and have mostly looked for nice books he hasn't signed a lot of. Or that were in some way special for a Stan Lee Signature.

[Tony S]

The balance for what to charge is easy to debate. If the goal is to provide as many customers as possible with product, then a low price ensures a long line waiting to pay. But, it would require more work. If Stan Lee can make the same amount of money by charging $100 per signature for two hours of work that he could make by charging $50 per signature for four hours of work... why would Stan do four hours of work? If he begins charging $200 per signature for one hour, he's even "better off" in terms of his time.

 

Meeting Stan Lee, even staring at the top of his head for 10 seconds while he signs your book is part of the experience that costs $100. When a Stan Lee signed book is resold (after Signature Series), you get the whole signature, but you get zero of the "I had him sign my book" experience. Someone else experienced "meeting" Stan Lee, someone else selected the comic from their collection/inventory, so Stan didn't sign "your" (childhood) comic... he signed a comic that can be purchased after the fact. Someone else submitted to CGC and received whatever grade the book gets... which might be lower than the buyer would have liked (which lowers their bid).

 

All those "someone else did it" factors can add up when it comes to how much a buyer will pay for Stan Lee Signature Series. It should not be surprising if some Signature Series books signed by Stan Lee don't sell for the cost of the Stan Lee signature plus the CGC slabbing.

 

By your logic and which I agree, there is an over evaluation of Stan Lee signed objects, which can't be justified by the signature alone and which will eventually result in a correction in the market. Simply put, if you want a Stan Lee signature for the experience, go for it, but don't automatically expect a return in your investment for having a book signed by him, which has probably been signed 1000 of times by him over the years. Case in point Stan has signed well over 1000 of the modern ASM 1's, if people can't purchase it for a reasonable price (that's subjective), then they will wait until another copy becomes available at a price point they think is reasonable, because they know there are plenty of copies too choose from. The seller also needs to keep that in mind when selling a mass produced multi signed popular comic book.

 

As I have mentioned before, my Stan Lee signed items are all vintage books that Stan actually worked on. I'm skeptical as well concerning modern comics he had no part of. But I'm not sure how we would know how many of of the new ASM 1's Stan Lee signed. The 2014 #1 and all it's variants has well over 1000 signed copies listed in the census. Some of the variants are MOSTLY signed copies, not many CGC graded copies are unsigned. I only have sale listings to go by, but they indicate most were NOT signed by Lee. They were signed by creators that worked on them. Is there a census somewhere that tells us how many signed copies + WHO signed?

[jcjames]

I've met Stan 4 times now and he still doesn't recognize me.

.

.

 

 

 

[namisgr]

Also I mentioned in earlier posts that I've made a point of only getting signed vintage material Stan actually worked on and have mostly looked for nice books he hasn't signed a lot of. Or that were in some way special for a Stan Lee Signature.

 

Me too, Mr. Tony Starks.

 

[seanfingh]

I've met Stan 4 times now and he still doesn't recognize me.

.

.

 

 

 

I've met Stan about 10 times, and he still doesn't recognize me either.